Unsettling Rumours about Kings Cross suburban platforms

[SprinterMan]

I heard a rumour doing the rounds at work a few weeks ago that once the Thameslink Programme is finished, platforms 9, 10 & 11 at Kings Cross are going to be demolished and replaced with shops. Does anyone know if there is any truth in this?

If true, then it seems remarkably short sighted. These platforms will still be perfect to handle an 8 car 700 or 6 car 717 during times of disruption, and an 8 car 387 or 365 for scheduled services. The main platforms at KGX are going to get busier with the introduction of more VTEC services and the arrival of First East Coast, so in times of disruption on the Moorgate branch it will leave them fewer places to turn trains back.

Adam

 

[me123]

I certainly haven't head about this, but it would seem unlikely and very short sighted. In addition to the above, the three platforms at KGX would provide room for potential further growth on services on the Great Northern routes. I don't know if there's plans to run the 800s and 801s in five car formation, but the platforms would seem ideal for them if that was the case. And, of course, the 180s used by HT and GC, and indeed the 802s that will replace them, can also make use of the shorter platforms.

Besides, Platform 9 3/4 must be of some literary significance and probably drives quite a lot of non-travellers into the station (and, consequently, its shops which leads to £££). To have a 9 3/4, you surely must need to have a 9 and a 10.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...7be9c9cf71db38fb!8m2!3d51.531703!4d-0.1243105

Are platforms 9-11 the shorter ones to the left-hand side of the station in that view?

 

[najaB]

Are platforms 9-11 the shorter ones to the left-hand side of the station in that view?

Yes, they are.

 

[Failed Unit]

I had heard about redevelopment so not overly surprised.

Remember that platforms 10 / 11 are not really fit for purpose so making the 1 decent platform would be an improvement.

I think if they did Kings cross would cope. Some of the dwells are over 1 hour, will this be acceptable on the 2018 timetable or will the services of less than 2 hours be turned in about 30 mins.

As for disruption it will be a bad day to lose Thameslink and Moorgate at the same time. I Moorgate service will not need the platform for long. If wouldnt be ideal but I am sure kx could cope with 9 platforms. (Not saying I think it should however.) perfect work for me is as I understood merge 10 and 11 to a larger platform with more space.

 

[Simon11]

Besides, Platform 9 3/4 must be of some literary significance and probably drives quite a lot of non-travellers into the station (and, consequently, its shops which leads to £££). To have a 9 3/4, you surely must need to have a 9 and a 10.

Got to be a first in terms of a reason of wishing to save the platforms!

 

[yorksrob]

The OP seems to be suggesting that all three platforms will be lost, whereas others are suggesting that one platform will be lost in order to lengthen the other.

I suppose it's worth noting that 11 has already been filled in and dug out once before !

 

[The Ham]

I certainly haven't head about this, but it would seem unlikely and very short sighted. In addition to the above, the three platforms at KGX would provide room for potential further growth on services on the Great Northern routes. I don't know if there's plans to run the 800s and 801s in five car formation, but the platforms would seem ideal for them if that was the case. And, of course, the 180s used by HT and GC, and indeed the 802s that will replace them, can also make use of the shorter platforms.

Besides, Platform 9 3/4 must be of some literary significance and probably drives quite a lot of non-travellers into the station (and, consequently, its shops which leads to £££). To have a 9 3/4, you surely must need to have a 9 and a 10.

In which case put shops outside of the gate line along with a fake platform 10, that then gives the shops lots of access to tourists and allows said tourists access to where they want to be. Problem solved and you create a draw making the shops even more attractive.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Got to be a first in terms of a reason of wishing to save the platforms!

Well Brief Encounter saved Carnforth's clock and waiting room...

 

[najaB]

If this does happen would it be the biggest loss of terminal platform capacity since Bond Street?

Edit: Yes, I did mean Broad Street. (Keep reading, you'll see what I mean...)

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is there enough height in that area of the station for a mezzanine floor for them to do something similar to what was done at Waterloo?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

If this does happen would it be the biggest loss of terminal platform capacity since Bond Street?

I think you mean Broad Street? Though I wonder about Holborn Viaduct given that the service level at Broad Street wasn't particularly high towards the end - Holborn Viaduct, while physically smaller, certainly had a greater throughput.

Of course, Holborn Viaduct's capacity wasn't really lost - simply diverted into the Thameslink core.

 

[najaB]

I think you mean Broad Street?

Yes, I did.

 

[Clip]

Is there enough height in that area of the station for a mezzanine floor for them to do something similar to what was done at Waterloo?

No room there for one unless the extended the roof upwards

 

[pdeaves]

If this does happen would it be the biggest loss of terminal platform capacity since Bond Street?

Do you mean Broad Street?

Edit: Never mind, someone else beat me to it

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Besides, Platform 9 3/4 must be of some literary significance and probably drives quite a lot of non-travellers into the station (and, consequently, its shops which leads to £££). To have a 9 3/4, you surely must need to have a 9 and a 10.

There is always always always a lengthy queue of people waiting by the platform 9¾ sign to have their picture taken. I'd guess it's probably half an hour or more on a normal day, I dread to think what it's like during the school holidays. The platform is definitely a significant draw of business into the station and I'm sure they are considering what can be done with it ahead of any redevelopment.

 

[GNER 91128]

Wouldn't it make sense to take out two of the platforms so one can be extended and become full length and able to take IC trains as others suggested? It's a shame only one would be able to be kept but obviously extending means taking out a lot of track and point work and there's not exactly a lot of room until you reach the tunnel mouth. Although things could be made easy if they started using the tunnel bores over on the platform 0 side, I guess anyway.

 

[yorksrob]

Wouldn't it make sense to take out two of the platforms so one can be extended and become full length and able to take IC trains as others suggested? It's a shame only one would be able to be kept but obviously extending means taking out a lot of track and point work and there's not exactly a lot of room until you reach the tunnel mouth. Although things could be made easy if they started using the tunnel bores over on the platform 0 side, I guess anyway.

I would have thought you'd only need to remove 11 to extend 10. 9 you probably wouldn't be able to extend, but then I don't see why you would need to decommission it either.

 

[swt_passenger]

There'll be more than enough 'short trains' to occupy P9-11 in the medium term, notably the HT 5 cars just confirmed ordered, and the GC all 180 fleet by next year some time, etc etc. What about the First group Edinburgh open access service, anyone know what length trains they are aiming for? Then there's all the ECML 5 car IEP possibilities to new destinations, such as Middlesbrough?

 

[yorksrob]

There'll be more than enough 'short trains' to occupy P9-11 in the medium term, notably the HT 5 cars just confirmed ordered, and the GC all 180 fleet by next year some time, etc etc. What about the First group Edinburgh open access service, anyone know what length trains they are aiming for? Then there's all the ECML 5 car IEP possibilities to new destinations, such as Middlesbrough?

Hopefully the GC all 180 fleet will be delayed by a couple of years.

 

[lineclear]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the railway rumour mill. The existing platform 10 will be abolished and the existing platform 11 will be renamed platform 10. Platform 9 will be extended.

 

[Failed Unit]

Won't resignalling whenever it happens result in platform 0 getting renumbered to 1 and then all existing platforms up 1. Ie 1 becomes 2 etc. Saying that if I recall said resignalling is a few years off yet.

 

[Wolfie]

If this does happen would it be the biggest loss of terminal platform capacity since Bond Street?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Do you mean Broad Street by any chance?


Oops...sorry for reopening something done to death..

 

[lineclear]

Won't resignalling whenever it happens result in platform 0 getting renumbered to 1 and then all existing platforms up 1. Ie 1 becomes 2 etc. Saying that if I recall said resignalling is a few years off yet.

Apparently not!

The remodelling (which is very extensive) is part of the resignalling/ETCS scheme. It's still at GRIP 3 though, so things could change.

 

[IanD]

There is always always always a lengthy queue of people waiting by the platform 9¾ sign to have their picture taken. I'd guess it's probably half an hour or more on a normal day, I dread to think what it's like during the school holidays. The platform is definitely a significant draw of business into the station and I'm sure they are considering what can be done with it ahead of any redevelopment.

About 3 people waiting the last time I went past. They've moved the half trolley once, I'm sure they can move it again.

 

[swt_passenger]

Hopefully the GC all 180 fleet will be delayed by a couple of years.

Why? There's no sign of any delay to them getting the GW 180s AFAICT, they have them all on lease from next month, but four of the five will be subleased back until the first IEPs enter service during 2017.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

If platforms 9, 10 & 11 are demolished to make way for shops...
Can't they rename platforms 0-8 as 1-9 so as to keep the tourism boost from Harry Potter fans?

 

[Clip]

About 3 people waiting the last time I went past. They've moved the half trolley once, I'm sure they can move it again.

Got the midday last wednesday and the whole queing system thing was rammed and spilling onto the concourse for some length.They must make a fortune from that shop too .

 

[yorksrob]

Why? There's no sign of any delay to them getting the GW 180s AFAICT, they have them all on lease from next month, but four of the five will be subleased back until the first IEPs enter service during 2017.

The longer they sub-lease them, the better AFAIC.

 

[muddythefish]

Operational flexibility or the chance for NR to make money through more retail outlets? Goodbye platforms 9-11.