Use of Risk Triggered Commentary?

[RedYellowGreen]

Moderator Note: Posts 1-10 originally in this thread

I do think a good example how to concentrate and related to te railway driving is Risk Trigger Commentary

Interesting to learn how many people carried on with RTC after passing out?

I pretty much stopped straight away. I found I was saying things for the sake of it. Don't get me wrong, when the situation calls for it, like passing a single yellow on a bend towards a red I'll call it out. Or coming to a stop with an offside door I call it out, but anything else I say it in my head.

 

[The One]

Yes I do wonder how many people still do it as some people not comfortable in talking to them selves but I do think if you use it you are concentrating that’s why I said use as example how to obtain concentration the person who posted this obviously can’t use that for an example if you worked in ie a paper shop etc

 

[baz962]

Yes I do wonder how many people still do it as some people not comfortable in talking to them selves but I do think if you use it you are concentrating that’s why I said use as example how to obtain concentration the person who posted this obviously can’t use that for an example if you worked in ie a paper shop etc

You could use it if you had worked in a paper shop. Literally everything you do in work or out requires concentration. You might need to concentrate to give a customer the correct change or do the newspaper round routes correctly (if applicable ). Stacking things on a shelf while concentrating on making sure the older foodstuffs are in front and nothing is out of date.

 

[ComUtoR]

Interesting to learn how many people carried on with RTC after passing out?

I've never stopped and I'm 15+ yrs in.

when the situation calls for it, like passing a single yellow on a bend towards a red I'll call it out. Or coming to a stop with an offside door I call it out, but anything else I say it in my head.

Which is the entire point of using 'Risk triggered' commentary. Using it all the time removes its effectiveness.

 

[Dieseldriver]

Interesting to learn how many people carried on with RTC after passing out?

I pretty much stopped straight away. I found I was saying things for the sake of it. Don't get me wrong, when the situation calls for it, like passing a single yellow on a bend towards a red I'll call it out. Or coming to a stop with an offside door I call it out, but anything else I say it in my head.

So you use risk triggered commentary then....

 

[Llama]

There's generally perceived to be a difference between 'commentary driving' and 'risk triggered commentary' as far as train driving goes, with risk triggered commentary usually being to highlight specific risks to aid concentration, or prioritising. Perhaps such as increases in line speed approaching a station with an irregular stopping pattern while running towards a red, even better with an ESR/TSR involved too and while driving a traction unit that gives unnecessary distractions e.g. spurious unimportant faults on a screen...

As for the OP, think of a repetitive or monotonous task you've done in the past - did you recognise that your attention might wander, and what did you do to stop that happening - and importantly, was it effective.

 

[craigybagel]

So you use risk triggered commentary then....

There's generally perceived to be a difference between 'commentary driving' and 'risk triggered commentary' as far as train driving goes, with risk triggered commentary usually being to highlight specific risks to aid concentration, or prioritising. Perhaps such as increases in line speed approaching a station with an irregular stopping pattern while running towards a red, even better with an ESR/TSR involved too and while driving a traction unit that gives unnecessary distractions e.g. spurious unimportant faults on a screen...

As for the OP, think of a repetitive or monotonous task you've done in the past - did you recognise that your attention might wander, and what did you do to stop that happening - and importantly, was it effective.

My very old school DI had little time for commentary driving, and neither do I - great for those it works for, but not for me. I have picked up his habit though of saying out loud something like "ooh that's unusual" when I come around a corner and see a yellow in front of me, especially on our AB sections where it's pretty rare. It works surprisingly well at getting the brain back in gear and starting the thinking process about knowing where the red is.

 

[Shunted]

My very old school DI had little time for commentary driving, and neither do I - great for those it works for, but not for me. I have picked up his habit though of saying out loud something like "ooh that's unusual" when I come around a corner and see a yellow in front of me, especially on our AB sections where it's pretty rare. It works surprisingly well at getting the brain back in gear and starting the thinking process about knowing where the red is.

So pretty much the same concept then ‍♂️

 

[craigybagel]

So pretty much the same concept then ‍♂️

Indeed, by his and mine own admission it's a form of RTC. Just neither of us go in for the "single yellow, next signal is at danger" type of thing at every signal that some go for if you take it to extremes. If I did that on a trip round Manchester or Birmingham I'd be hoarse by the end of the day! Just a handy wake up call for the more unusual situations.

 

[DunfordBridge]

There's generally perceived to be a difference between 'commentary driving' and 'risk triggered commentary' as far as train driving goes, with risk triggered commentary usually being to highlight specific risks to aid concentration, or prioritising. Perhaps such as increases in line speed approaching a station with an irregular stopping pattern while running towards a red, even better with an ESR/TSR involved too and while driving a traction unit that gives unnecessary distractions e.g. spurious unimportant faults on a screen...

As for the OP, think of a repetitive or monotonous task you've done in the past - did you recognise that your attention might wander, and what did you do to stop that happening - and importantly, was it effective.

I took part in a course on Advanced Driving with the Institute of Advanced Motorists where I would give a commentary but I suspect that was more commentary driving, talking about such things as the weather and the surface of the road, although there was a certain element of risk triggered commentary, maybe not quite so much prioritising.

Best example is to use driving long distance. Thats what I did. And just expand on what you done, how you prepared yourself and anything you done to mitigate the risks.

I have driven up and down the country and different times last year as well as a trip across Northern Europe and Scandinavia in 2019.

I have also gone on many long distance cycling journeys where I have had to maintain concentration despite being physically tired. Not quite sure if this is as good an example as a long motorway journey because there is less risk of you falling asleep as a cyclist, due to the physical exertion involved.

 

[Robb7]

I took part in a course on Advanced Driving with the Institute of Advanced Motorists where I would give a commentary but I suspect that was more commentary driving, talking about such things as the weather and the surface of the road, although there was a certain element of risk triggered commentary, maybe not quite so much prioritising.


I have driven up and down the country and different times last year as well as a trip across Northern Europe and Scandinavia in 2019.

I have also gone on many long distance cycling journeys where I have had to maintain concentration despite being physically tired. Not quite sure if this is as good an example as a long motorway journey because there is less risk of you falling asleep as a cyclist, due to the physical exertion involved.

Whilst working as a bus driver throughout some particularly monotonous long and boring routes, I used to employ a form of Risk Triggered Commentary although I had no idea what it was or that I was indulging - It made my journey more bearable and did combat fatigue.
My particular form of RTC was simply to quote a line from a 'Carry On' film aloud whenever my bell was pressed more than three times.
For instance: Ding! Ding! Ding!

"Baghdad...home of the immortal words, Who was that bag I saw you with last night, Dad?"

Ding! Ding! Ding!

"Well She's not 'getting it' here anymore!"

Ding! Ding! Ding!

"My grandaddy came over on the Mayflower, he was the original Burke. Married into the Wright family and became a Wright Burke.."

That last one being delivered in a cod American accent. I'm not sure if that counts as a form of RTC but it certainly kept me alert and amused - although passengers in the seat directly behind my cab must have thought i was insane.

 

[Papa]

There are a fair few studies showing "point and call" reduced incidents on the New York and Toronto Metros. It's was originally used in Japan and reduced incidents by 85% so has merit. I know of a couple of drivers that had incidences early in thier career and now use their own version of risk triggered commentry and have been incident free for over a decade. I find point and call extremely useful for routes with unusual stopping patterns, and ususual signalling and when a red clears just before coming into a station.

 

[iSquared]

There are a fair few studies showing "point and call" reduced incidents on the New York and Toronto Metros. It's was originally used in Japan and reduced incidents by 85% so has merit. I know of a couple of drivers that had incidences early in thier career and now use their own version of risk triggered commentry and have been incident free for over a decade. I find point and call extremely useful for routes with unusual stopping patterns, and ususual signalling and when a red clears just before coming into a station.

I find those Japanese train cab views on YT very interesting. Two in the cab and they always point at the signals, usually in their own uniques style, too. It’s that kind of discipline that contributes to their reputation as one of the best train services in the world, I imagine.

 

[43066]

I've never stopped and I'm 15+ yrs in.

Same here (not that long for me yet!).

Which is the entire point of using 'Risk triggered' commentary. Using it all the time removes its effectiveness.

Yep. I try to call out restrictive signals, platform side/train length (picked that up in DOO days).

I think actively calling out the starting signal aspect is actually more important when driving guarded trains, to avoid the trap of just going on two on the bell without checking.

 

[Horizon22]

There are a fair few studies showing "point and call" reduced incidents on the New York and Toronto Metros. It's was originally used in Japan and reduced incidents by 85% so has merit. I know of a couple of drivers that had incidences early in thier career and now use their own version of risk triggered commentry and have been incident free for over a decade. I find point and call extremely useful for routes with unusual stopping patterns, and ususual signalling and when a red clears just before coming into a station.

Yep there's lots of pyschology and RSSB research on RTC (and similar methods). It effectively "resets" your brain by saying things out aloud, heightens your senses and improves awareness.

 

[DunfordBridge]

Whilst working as a bus driver throughout some particularly monotonous long and boring routes, I used to employ a form of Risk Triggered Commentary although I had no idea what it was or that I was indulging - It made my journey more bearable and did combat fatigue.
My particular form of RTC was simply to quote a line from a 'Carry On' film aloud whenever my bell was pressed more than three times.
For instance: Ding! Ding! Ding!

"Baghdad...home of the immortal words, Who was that bag I saw you with last night, Dad?"

Ding! Ding! Ding!

"Well She's not 'getting it' here anymore!"

Ding! Ding! Ding!

"My grandaddy came over on the Mayflower, he was the original Burke. Married into the Wright family and became a Wright Burke.."

That last one being delivered in a cod American accent. I'm not sure if that counts as a form of RTC but it certainly kept me alert and amused - although passengers in the seat directly behind my cab must have thought i was insane.

At least your passengers can be assured you are fully awake. My dad was a bus driver too. Not quite sure about his risk triggered commentary but it might have contained the odd interjection on occasion.

 

[Fozzzy]

Hi all, first time poster here.

I’m interested in pursuing a career as a trainee driver and currently researching the role. This thread has been an interesting read for me as I’d not heard of risk trigger commentary until now but I see how it is of benefit.

For those that are currently drivers, are there any other techniques you employ to stop you becoming distracted, losing concentration or prioritise? I’m specifically thinking of say freight drivers or intercity drivers where you may not be stopping for long periods? For example, a Kings cross to Edinburgh service where your first stop is York maybe. I suspect that this is less of an issue with suburban services where you may be stopping at multiple stations in a shorter distance. Intrigued to hear your advice, what works for you, what works for others etc. Thanks

 

[Kendo]

I've been driving two months now on my own. I find I use RTC much more now I'm out on my own... also stopping at each station I will point to the side I'm opening my doors saying the car length 6 or 3. At times when I feel I'm feeling fatigued I will start talking out loud telling myself to focus. I feel it works for me

 

[Driver0202]

My very old school DI had little time for commentary driving, and neither do I - great for those it works for, but not for me. I have picked up his habit though of saying out loud something like "ooh that's unusual" when I come around a corner and see a yellow in front of me, especially on our AB sections where it's pretty rare. It works surprisingly well at getting the brain back in gear and starting the thinking process about knowing where the red is.

Agree with you here , my favourite saying when I see double yellow/single yellow is … ahh ya b*stard meaning put the brake in and take my time , as it means I normally getting put in a loop somewhere , if it’s a out of course one I tend to say oooo ffs , and take my time again .