Virgin Trains railcard offer ended

[bb21]

A season ticket is very different to a day of issue ticket, price does determine validity, could I then by now for 10 years time? The machine may do it but that does not make it correct.

What? There is no provision for buying 10 years in advance. There is however provision for issuing walk-on fares 12 months in advance, at the prevailing price.

As I said before, check your iKB.

 

[iwearahalo2]

What? There is no provision for buying 10 years in advance. There is however provision for issuing walk-on fares 12 months in advance, at the prevailing price.

As I said before, check your iKB.

I am taking your example, the fares are only updated in November into star and other I believe, where can you buy 12 months in advance at a different price on day returns?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Aren't Virgin avoiding that issue by simply saying railcards are not valid with off peak fares from 06th Sept so its a moot point?

 

[crehld]

Aren't Virgin avoiding that issue by simply saying railcards are not valid with off peak fares from 06th Sept so its a moot point?

That's not what they're saying at all. See post 1.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Surely they are saying that. This the text of an email from Virgin:

We're changing the way our Railcards work. From 6 September 2015, Railcard holders will no longer be able to use Off-Peak, Railcard discounted tickets on Peak trains on the Virgin Trains West Coast Mainline network.

Here are some FAQs below.

Q: What is happening?
A: We're making changes to the use of Railcards on Virgin Trains West Coast Mainline services. Railcard holders will no longer be able to use Off-Peak, Railcard discounted tickets on Peak trains on the Virgin Trains West Coast Mainline network.


Q: Why is this happening?
A: We're doing this to help simplify our fares structure and bring us in line with other long distance train operating companies.


Q: When is this happening?
A: From Sunday 6 September 2015.


Q: What does this mean to me?
A: If you buy an Off-Peak ticket for a Peak time train using a Railcard discount before 6 September, this change will not affect you. If you're looking to buy tickets after 6 September, don't worry, you can still get great value Advance tickets with your Railcard for Peak time travel. We have just completed refurbishments on our Pendolino fleet to create an extra 5,500 Standard class seats a day, so there are plenty of seats available on board our services.


If your question is not answered here please contact us.

Kind Regards
Virgin Trains

 

[button_boxer]

It's there quite clearly in the FAQ section:

Q: What does this mean to me?
A: If you buy an Off-Peak ticket for a Peak time train using a Railcard discount before 6 September, this change will not affect you.

Which is the whole point of this thread - they're saying that any railcard discounted off-peak single or return bought before the 6th September remains valid on otherwise barred trains.

Though this does seem a strange way to do things - yes, any tickets bought before the change was announced would have to be honoured, but why give people this window? They could have simply said off-peak tickets with railcard discounts will not be valid on "peak" trains after 6th September, with the exception of those tickets purchased before 20th August.

 

[bb21]

I am taking your example, the fares are only updated in November into star and other I believe, where can you buy 12 months in advance at a different price on day returns?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Aren't Virgin avoiding that issue by simply saying railcards are not valid with off peak fares from 06th Sept so its a moot point?

New fares are only loaded into the TIS 28 days before a fares round (say 5th December for new fares round on 2nd January, going from NFM22 to NFM23), so if one wishes to purchase a walk-on ticket for 5th February on 25th October, it would be at the existing NFM22 price on the day of purchase, but if the same ticket is purchased on 15th December, it would be at the new price as per NFM23.

 

[iwearahalo2]

New fares are only loaded into the TIS 28 days before a fares round (say 5th December for new fares round on 2nd January, going from NFM22 to NFM23), so if one wishes to purchase a walk-on ticket for 5th February on 25th October, it would be at the existing NFM22 price on the day of purchase, but if the same ticket is purchased on 15th December, it would be at the new price as per NFM23.

Yes I get that but does that make it a valid fare? Or ticket?

 

[bb21]

Yes I get that but does that make it a valid fare? Or ticket?

As I said, check your iKnowledgeBase. It is quite clear on this matter, as was The Manual it superceded.

You are not suggesting that these internal industry documents and long-standing practices are wrong are you?

 

[iwearahalo2]

As I said, check your iKnowledgeBase. It is quite clear on this matter, as was The Manual it superceded.

You are not suggesting that these internal industry documents and long-standing practices are wrong are you?

I haven't a clue to what that is ha ha, what practices?

 

[dvboy]

So he should be grateful his bill, for going to work, is "only" going to increase by 30% overnight to pretty much £1000 per month.

I wasn't suggesting this at all, just pointing out the facts and the poor advise that had been given at Rugby.

 

[Hellfire]

Whatever the reason for this it strikes me as being particularly small minded by VT. I travel regularly between Preston and Euston and I've never been on a peak train that had people standing so it can't be because they are facing overcrowding problems. All this will do is force more people onto the off-peak services.

It also means it is now extremely difficult for pensioners, who fancy a day trip to London from the North West to do so at a reasonable price and, at the same time, give themselves a decent amount of time in the capital.

I detect the hand of Brian Souter behind this decision. It's just a way of increasing the revenue for his company and to hell with the passengers (sorry customers)

 

[Chester1]

I am affected by this and I am not too bothered. I have posted a couple of times that its one of the easiest ways to reduce peak time overcrowding and was told it wouldnt happen. There is frankly no way I would pay for a Anytime Open ticket on a long distance journey. The overwhelming number of people affected by this wont pay more, they will use different trains instead. It was a nice perk while it lasted but its not unreasonable to be expected to pay peak time fares for peak time services like everyone else. I use a season ticket for work and I am more concerned about keeping that down. I was sitting on the floor on a packed Virgin train yesterday morning on the way to work. I can assure you that Virgin trains leaving Chester in the morning peak are ussually very well used. I think the solution to end overcrowding is airline style ticketing for all mainline fares and compulsory seat reservations with some sort of system for booking seats for season ticket holders. It would need a good IT system, need to be available until 5 mins before a train leaves a station and need a sensible cost for switching trains if you miss yours. People might get anoyed by being told there are no seats left on a popular service but it would mean no one standing.

 

[maniacmartin]

Now that the Stagecoach Virgin alliance have the WCML, MML and ECML between them, there is less need to compete for passengers due to an effective monopoly, so I don't find it surprising that this would happen.

 

[LeylandLen]

I see they have a new website . Seems you can now choose a seat when reserving one .

 

[Bletchleyite]

I see they have a new website . Seems you can now choose a seat when reserving one .

Indeed. Still Trainline based, to my surprise, but a most welcome feature.

 

[bb21]

XC are TTL based and have offered this facility for a while, so it's nothing new. The technology is out there.

 

[cool110]

The new website still can't sell those saturday travelcards I mentioned earlier.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The new website still can't sell those saturday travelcards I mentioned earlier.

Correct.
You can bring up Super Off Peak fares (which the Saturday Travelcard is technically) using the "Other Fares" link, but the London Zones 1-6 one is not one of those shown.

In trying this out I found that that it offers Chester-Marylebone "CH+ATW" ticket options which include London Midland services between Crewe and Birmingham, ie you are not restricted to ATW north of Birmingham.

The new website, like most of the refreshes these days, is optimised for smartphone usage.
Like the BBC site, they do all they can to make life more frustrating for PC and laptop users like me, who prefer more detail on fewer screens.

 

[kieron]

I see they have a new website . Seems you can now choose a seat when reserving one .

When does it let you do that? I only went as far as the screen with the login prompt, but it had allocated me a seat then without letting me choose it.

Indeed. Still Trainline based, to my surprise, but a most welcome feature.

I'm surprised you expected them to go with anyone else. They've put a lot of effort into getting their web site to work as it does now, and I don't see any of the other providers as really having that much extra to offer. WebTIS (in particular) isn't worth considering for the time being as they can't sell SVHs/SSHs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When does it let you do that? I only went as far as the screen with the login prompt, but it had allocated me a seat then without letting me choose it.

On the summary screen you can select to change it. This is a better approach as it allows more efficient allocation (most people will just accept what they are given). It also I suppose allows for a future option of charging people for reselecting.

I'm surprised you expected them to go with anyone else. They've put a lot of effort into getting their web site to work as it does now, and I don't see any of the other providers as really having that much extra to offer. WebTIS (in particular) isn't worth considering for the time being as they can't sell SVHs/SSHs.

I did wonder if they would use VTEC's system instead which I'm pretty sure is WebTIS. I'm certain it could be modified to sell SVHs.

 

[Starmill]

I am affected by this and I am not too bothered. I have posted a couple of times that its one of the easiest ways to reduce peak time overcrowding and was told it wouldnt happen. There is frankly no way I would pay for a Anytime Open ticket on a long distance journey. The overwhelming number of people affected by this wont pay more, they will use different trains instead. It was a nice perk while it lasted but its not unreasonable to be expected to pay peak time fares for peak time services like everyone else.

I agree. What is unreasonable is that somebody thinks that £330 is an acceptable 'peak time' Standard Class return fare.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree. What is unreasonable is that somebody thinks that £330 is an acceptable 'peak time' Standard Class return fare.

Clearly enough people do that it makes VT money to charge that. The train is not the only way from Manchester to London. You can drive (all or part of the way), take a coach or fly if you prefer. You could split your journey and ticketing at Stoke, use LM part of the way and save a stack of money. Or you could find a way not to make the journey.

But if people pay it, a business will charge it.

 

[Starmill]

Why should I, or anyone else have to do any of those things? There are lots of trains, there is space on all of them (more than on the ones I've been using for journeys in the North West recently, in the past week I have stood 3 times in the vestibule of an 11 car train because there were no seats available) and the infrastructure to run them and the money to get it up to standard and maintain it at that come largely from taxpayers.

For the record I never use this easement anyway, even the Off-Peak fares are too much for me to afford.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why should I, or anyone else have to do any of those things?

Because you don't want to pay £300+ for the ticket. I wouldn't either, I would choose another option.

I forgot, travel the night before and stay somewhere at your destination.

For the record I never use this easement anyway, even the Off-Peak fares are too much for me to afford.

In that case, you are rather at the whim of Advance fares or other modes, and reducing all fares to levels affordable to you (given that Railcard discounted Off Peak fares are very affordable, particularly on the WCML where they are a bit lower than other lines) would be completely unaffordable.

 

[thedbdiboy]

I agree. What is unreasonable is that somebody thinks that £330 is an acceptable 'peak time' Standard Class return fare.

If you want to fly from Manchester to London and back tomorrow by BA it will cost you £404. That is the price the £330 fare competes with. Book a little further in advance or choose an Advance fare and of course you'll pay less.

 

[Starmill]

I actually don't have any problems with booking in advance and being organised. My qualms with over-use of Advance products are mainly in their non-refundability and the limitations that places on changing plans. I might be organised enough to get a plan together 8-10 weeks in advance and get a good ticket price, but other people are not necessarily. The other thing I do not like is that there are a lot of factors outside your control that the train company will not look upon favourably if you miss your train. Rely on Metrolink (Manchester trams) to get you to Piccadilly station in time? You have no hope if you miss your train because they are delayed. Most of the time I stick with the plan, to avoid throwing away tickets or having to pay at least £20 in admin fees, but this can have other costs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I actually don't have any problems with booking in advance and being organised. My qualms with over-use of Advance products are mainly in their non-refundability and the limitations that places on changing plans. I might be organised enough to get a plan together 8-10 weeks in advance and get a good ticket price, but other people are not necessarily. The other thing I do not like is that there are a lot of factors outside your control that the train company will not look upon favourably if you miss your train. Rely on Metrolink (Manchester trams) to get you to Piccadilly station in time? You have no hope if you miss your train because they are delayed. Most of the time I stick with the plan, to avoid throwing away tickets or having to pay at least £20 in admin fees, but this can have other costs.

I would be quite happy, as I've said before, for Advances to be abolished and walk-ups to be reduced to a level that brings in the same income. I suspect however you wouldn't like this, so I would suggest using the Advances as available.

I would not necessarily support the taxpayer increasing subsidy to reduce fares in the manner you seem to imply; other cheaper modes are available if rail fares are completely unaffordable.

The TOCs are not profiteering; profit on rail franchises is minimal compared with bus operation, say.

 

[erk]

Am I right in thinking the collection receipt prints both the purchase date and time as well as the printed date and time?

I have just collected a batch of tickets from Manchester Oxford Rd. The receipts show today's date, but nothing about the date the tickets were purchased.

 

[Greenback]

Rail is competing with other modes of transport and the fares that they charge, and that explains why there are such a range of fares available. The most expensive competes with flexible air tickets, the cheapest tries to do the same with cheap fares.

A TOC will tweak these fares as much as it can in order to try and maximise revenue. This aligns nicely with the government's policy that the burden on the public purse should be reduced.

These are the main aims involved here, not to allow people to make journeys at a price that they deem fair. Look at what's offered an make the right choice for your needs.

 

[Starmill]

If Virgin Trains had single handedly built the West Coast Main Line, and bought their own trains to run on it that might make charging this much a bit more palatable.

Unfortunately railways are important for things like economic growth, and transport should be viewed more as a service than a business. That's why it's ludicrous that an Anytime Return from Berwick-upon-Tweed to London is so much cheaper than one from Manchester.