Virgin Trains railcard offer ended

[najaB]

If Virgin Trains had single handedly built the West Coast Main Line, and bought their own trains to run on it that might make charging this much a bit more palatable.

VTWC pay track access charges just like everyone else.

Unfortunately railways are important for things like economic growth, and transport should be viewed more as a service than a business. That's why it's ludicrous that an Anytime Return from Berwick-upon-Tweed to London is so much cheaper than one from Manchester.

I think you'll find that is because people are willing to pay more to go from Manchester to London than they are from Berwick-upon-Tweed. VTWC, VTEC, BA, National Express, etc. are businesses that exist to make money for their owners. There is no reason for them to charge less than the market will support.

 

[Starmill]

And do you think those track access charges really make up for the costs? It's not as if Network Rail is currently having a budget crisis or anything.

I think we are all missing the point. Objectively, out of driving, flying or getting a train from Manchester to London which do we as a society want people to do? I'm very well acquainted with market-based pricing thanks. It does me a good deal. But in the long run,in the bigger picture, it does not satisfy the aims we should be setting for it. I'm fed up of being one of the people who 'does the right thing' by not driving only to continue to have my rights and freedoms eroded, in addition to constant price rises. And all for the sake of a greedy company that does what it can because it can get away with it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The TOCs are not profiteering; profit on rail franchises is minimal compared with bus operation, say.

Is there a need for them to be making any profit? The railway needs money for enhancements, no?

 

[najaB]

Is there a need for them to be making any profit?

That's what private companies exist to do.

 

[Darandio]

Is there a need for them to be making any profit?

Naivest post of 2015 award goes to..........

 

[Bletchleyite]

If Virgin Trains had single handedly built the West Coast Main Line, and bought their own trains to run on it that might make charging this much a bit more palatable.

I think BR would have ended up doing the same. Who is doing it is really not that significant.

Unfortunately railways are important for things like economic growth, and transport should be viewed more as a service than a business. That's why it's ludicrous that an Anytime Return from Berwick-upon-Tweed to London is so much cheaper than one from Manchester.

£279. Still a very hefty sum that most people cannot afford nor justify.

 

[Starmill]

Naivest post of 2015 award goes to..........

If you accept the status quo, you will never understand your own naievety!

That's what private companies exist to do.

Oh, I wasn't aware. It's good you're here to bring me up to speed
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

£279. Still a very hefty sum that most people cannot afford nor justify.

I'm pleased we're in agreement :P

 

[najaB]

If you accept the status quo, you will never understand your own naievety!

A young man who isn’t a socialist hasn’t got a heart; an old man who is a socialist hasn’t got a head. - Lloyd George

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm pleased we're in agreement :P

Sort of. It's too expensive for me to pay it, but equally I get why they charge it and don't feel badly-done-by that they do.

 

[kieron]

On the summary screen you can select to change it. This is a better approach as it allows more efficient allocation (most people will just accept what they are given). It also I suppose allows for a future option of charging people for reselecting.

Thanks. I didn't fancy creating an account just to find out.

I did wonder if they would use VTEC's system instead which I'm pretty sure is WebTIS. I'm certain it could be modified to sell SVHs.

I'm sure it could be changed to sell them. If it was easy to do (in the way that changing WebTIS to sell more types of advance ticket is easy), they'd have done it already as overcharging people for rail journeys isn't really in anyone's interest. As they haven't, I conclude that it isn't straightforward.

And I expect Virgin to stay well clear of them until they do fix it.

 

[Starmill]

Sort of. It's too expensive for me to pay it, but equally I get why they charge it and don't feel badly-done-by that they do.

If it were what the Doncaster fare is (similar distance, £188) then I think that's a very reasonable position. But given railways are expensive in Britain, 'peak times' attract a large premium and then Virgin Trains is sticking out over and above even that already too-high bar for most, I think a lot of people would agree that £330 is not just expensive but extortionate. The fact that people are quoted these fares (a lot of people will get quoted the single fare as the only appropriate one for their journey at £165) does the railway a harm. There's also the risk that I might be faced with paying this should something happen to my tickets (e.g. they're stolen while I am at the station). It would be better for all concerned if the West Coast's Anytime fares were more in line with other intercity routes.

 

[Clip]

I think we are all missing the point. Objectively, out of driving, flying or getting a train from Manchester to London which do we as a society want people to do? I'm very well acquainted with market-based pricing thanks. It does me a good deal. But in the long run,in the bigger picture, it does not satisfy the aims we should be setting for it. I'm fed up of being one of the people who 'does the right thing' by not driving only to continue to have my rights and freedoms eroded, in addition to constant price rises. And all for the sake of a greedy company that does what it can because it can get away with it.
?

What rights and freedoms are you having eroded then? £6 advances from Leeds to Manchester been got rid of have they?

 

[Greenback]

While I agree that long distance walk up fares can be high, and I won't ever buy such a ticket, like Neil Williams I understand why this is so.

It will need a fundamental change in the funding of the railway and in government policy to bring these fares down. We can campaign for this to happen, but realistically I don't think there's going to be any such major alteration to the way railways are viewed for many years.

 

[Bletchleyite]

(e.g. they're stolen while I am at the station)

Mine live in my wallet. If my wallet is nicked, I am certainly going to abandon my journey entirely.

 

[fandroid]

I have just tried looking up prices of singles from Euston to Manchester on 9 September, in that critical mid-afternoon period where Virgin's offpeak fares normally end at 15.00.

With a Railcard, it was still offering me offpeak fares on the 15.20 and right through the evening peak period. That was on SWT's website. I'll have at look at the VTWC one too. What's going to happen to someone booking now, travelling on the 16.00 on 9 Sept and then being told the ticket is not valid?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have just tried looking up prices of singles from Euston to Manchester on 9 September, in that critical mid-afternoon period where Virgin's offpeak fares normally end at 15.00.

With a Railcard, it was still offering me offpeak fares on the 15.20 and right through the evening peak period. That was on SWT's website. I'll have at look at the VTWC one too. What's going to happen to someone booking now, travelling on the 16.00 on 9 Sept and then being told the ticket is not valid?

It is valid. They have stated it remains valid for tickets sold up to a given date which has not yet passed.

 

[Greenback]

It is valid. They have stated it remains valid for tickets sold up to a given date which has not yet passed.

This is my understanding as well.

 

[fandroid]

I have now tried the VTWC site, with exactly the same results. What's going on?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have now tried the VTWC site, with exactly the same results. What's going on?

Exactly what they said would go on, see above. The ticket, if purchased now, is valid.

 

[fandroid]

Well, there's an opportunity for a true entrepreneur! Lots of tickets can be re-sold for the period up to 6 December.

Perhaps the news should be spread. If you are going from London to Manchester after 6 September, are eligible for a Railcard but don't have one, then get buy your ticket online now, get the Railcard the day before you travel, and be quids in all round!

 

[GodAtum]

Clearly enough people do that it makes VT money to charge that. The train is not the only way from Manchester to London. You can drive (all or part of the way), take a coach or fly if you prefer. You could split your journey and ticketing at Stoke, use LM part of the way and save a stack of money. Or you could find a way not to make the journey.

But if people pay it, a business will charge it.

Slightly off topic, but is the LM journey from Euston - Stoke comfortable? Those seats look a pain to sit on for 2 hours!

 

[crehld]

Slightly off topic, but is the LM journey from Euston - Stoke comfortable? Those seats look a pain to sit on for 2 hours!

If you get a 350/1: yes perfectly comfortable (although I'd advise bringing provisions). If you get a 350/2: no. Either way make sure you go to the loo before getting on!

 

[Starmill]

If you get a 350/1: yes perfectly comfortable (although I'd advise bringing provisions). If you get a 350/2: no. Either way make sure you go to the loo before getting on!

Beat me to it on all counts! I would add that there's a reasonable chance of a /3 too, which is a lot more comfortable than a Pendolino Packed lunch is a must!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Beat me to it on all counts! I would add that there's a reasonable chance of a /3 too, which is a lot more comfortable than a Pendolino Packed lunch is a must!

A /3 is mostly the same as a /1 inside, except a few more tables, power sockets and the seat cover colours. And I suppose how worn the seats are

I would agree a /1 or /3 is preferable in comfort terms to a Pendolino (though I do think the Class 444 is the best IC train in the UK at present for passenger comfort).

Heading OT anyway sorry...

 

[hassaanhc]

If you get a 350/1: yes perfectly comfortable (although I'd advise bringing provisions). If you get a 350/2: no. Either way make sure you go to the loo before getting on!

I don't mind either type of seat, both are more comfortable than the Virgin standard seats. Just a lack of seat-back tables is annoying.

 

[Hadders]

Nothing wrong with LM other than the extended journey times. They can get crowded though and a 350/2 is to be avoided.

In many respects they're better than Pendolinos - more tables and larger windows

 

[Chester1]

If you get a 350/1: yes perfectly comfortable (although I'd advise bringing provisions). If you get a 350/2: no. Either way make sure you go to the loo before getting on!

A /3 is mostly the same as a /1 inside, except a few more tables, power sockets and the seat cover colours. And I suppose how worn the seats are

I would agree a /1 or /3 is preferable in comfort terms to a Pendolino (though I do think the Class 444 is the best IC train in the UK at present for passenger comfort).

Heading OT anyway sorry...

Nothing wrong with LM other than the extended journey times. They can get crowded though and a 350/2 is to be avoided.

In many respects they're better than Pendolinos - more tables and larger windows

How could I find out which type will be used for a service prior to booking advanced tickets? Real time trains doesn't seem to say which type of 350 will be used.

 

[yorkie]

You can buy tickets from stations up to 1 year in advance. The T&Cs applicable at the time of purchase apply.

Thetrainline will sell tickets up to about 4 months in advance which can provide you with an itinerary that is further evidence of a contract. You can buy up to approximately 10 tickets in one transaction (one booking fee)

Not sure of all your travel dates? The rtn portion is valid for a month, so you could buy 2 returns (one for each direction) on the date you wish to commit to and you then have 2 x return portions which you have a month to use on any day you wish.

Note the date of printing is shown on the ticket; for tickets bought online and collected this is obviously not necessarily the purchase date. So quite how Guards are meant to enforce this is a mystery.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How could I find out which type will be used for a service prior to booking advanced tickets? Real time trains doesn't seem to say which type of 350 will be used.

This is off topic but all Realtimetrains does is show a timing load shown in the open data. It does not show stock allocations. For some cases (e.g. Virgin Trains East Coast) the timing loads are a likely indication of the type of stock to be allocated while in other cases (e.g. Chiltern Railway) the timing load gives no such indication whatsoever and should be ignored (example).

Feel free to ask any questions about stock diagramming or allocations in the Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables forum

 

[lejog]

A young man who isn’t a socialist hasn’t got a heart; an old man who is a socialist hasn’t got a head. - Lloyd George

A young man who isn’t a socialist hasn’t got a heart; an old man who is a socialist has got a defined benefit pension fund - me.

 

[najaB]

A young man who isn’t a socialist hasn’t got a heart; an old man who is a socialist has got a defined benefit pension fund - me.

Lucky you if you've got one, I'm not fortunate enough to be a baby boomer.

 

[lejog]

Lucky you if you've got one, I'm not fortunate enough to be a baby boomer.

Lazy ageist stereotyping, I'm a baby boomer and certainly don't have (and never had have) a defined benefit pension. The majority of us don't:roll: The "me" in my post was I agree ambiguous, but I meant it was my saying, not that I was one of the lucky few.