WCML Flooding 1/1/15.

[Hardcastle]

Not a good start to the new year flooding between Oxenholme & Penrith with trains turning back at Carlisle or Preston.

 

[mrmartin]

Obviously it's a rural area but from my non-scientific opinion there seems to be an awful lot of flooding/landslide problems around oxenholme. I've been caught up endless times in it, indeed there was a landslip I was caught in just before xmas this year.

Is it possible NR could do work to avoid this? IE: better flood defences, building up banks and that kind of thing? It seems like a real hotspot for problems and there's no real alternative route apart from coaches from preston/carlisle which seem to take an age to order in when there is disruption.

 

[matacaster]

WCML problems between Preston & Carlisle seem to be on the increase. It's time the rail diversion via S&C was resourced properly (staff signing, locos, planning etc) so that it can be used at short notice to provide a RAIL alternative to WCML when that goes tits up. As far as I know the S&C was open, but I can't be sure.

 

[najaB]

Is it possible NR could do work to avoid this? IE: better flood defences, building up banks and that kind of thing?

My guess is that the problems stem from changes to land use on non-railway land uphill of the railway so gaining permission to do the work could be problematic.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

WCML problems between Preston & Carlisle seem to be on the increase. It's time the rail diversion via S&C was resourced properly (staff signing, locos, planning etc)....

Already happens courtesy of Preston depot.

 

[Mag_seven]

Not a good start to the new year flooding between Oxenholme & Penrith with trains turning back at Carlisle or Preston.

And to add to the WCML woe there is OLE damage on the Trent Valley route - could be a very long journey for anyone who set out from Scotland mid afternoon and who is heading for London.

 

[455driver]

Already happens courtesy of Preston depot.

How many train crew are there at Preston?
How many are on shift normally?
How many would be in the right place at the right time?
How many trips could each member of staff do in a shift?
How many trains would they need to divert compared to the point above?

Its all nice and easy on paper but in practice?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

How many train crew are there at Preston?
How many are on shift normally?
How many would be in the right place at the right time?
How many trips could each member of staff do in a shift?
How many trains would they need to divert compared to the point above?

Its all nice and easy on paper but in practice?

I wasn't advocating what the post said, merely stating that provision for such already exists. There's about 40 drivers and all guards who sign the S&C at Preston, IIRC.

 

[455driver]

I wasn't advocating what the post said, merely stating that provision for such already exists. There's about 40 drivers and all guards who sign the S&C at Preston, IIRC.

Not much provision though in the grand scheme of things, out of those 40 how many are on duty at any one time, about 15? That isnt going to go far especially as some of them will be en route to Euston or Glasgow so probably about 5 (or 10 if you are really lucky) would be around Preston/Carlisle and how many would have enough hours left?

Now back when I were a lad and we had a proper railway?

Edit-
I would have expected more than 40 but of course its route retention which is the (expensive) problem.

 

[itsonlyme]

I was travelling from Carnforth to Crewe leaving Carnforth at 18:09. Was not aware of problem until reaching Lancaster where I was changing. All WCML to/from North services appeared cancelled. My train from Carnforth was followed into Lancaster by TPE service signed as going to "Out of Service" but actually Oxenholme to Preston. Caught this to Preston. Full and standing leaving Lancaster but not squashed.

Two adults and small child next to me travelling Windermere to Carlisle. No coaches. They were being sent via Manchester, Leeds, and Newcastle. Did anyone check to see if they could get back to Carlisle last night by this route? I have significant doubts although I have not actually checked.

I was OK, arriving back at Crewe only 2 minutes later than planned, in fact better than usual.

Malcolm

 

[Taunton]

.....but of course its route retention which is the (expensive) problem.

This was never a problem long ago, when things were somehow able to be organised more appropriately.

The GWR route from Exeter to Plymouth has long suffered from storm damage at Dawlish, and the Southern route round Dartmoor also had more than its fair share of problems, so part of the roster for crews at Exeter, Plymouth etc was a daily trip they each worked of one another's trains over the alternative route. Everyone took a turn. In those times they used to take their own locomotives as well, so it was apparent what was going on.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Maybe Mods could rename this thread North WCML Disruption discussion or something as it is becoming more regular as posters before me have mentioned. the ideal would be if they could wire up the S and C and book 1 turn each day to use it for driver and guard knoledge, meaning that you wouldnt need voyagers or Locos. I was at CAR yesturday evening and a lot of foalk didnt really know what was going on.↲

 

[PHILIPE]

This was never a problem long ago, when things were somehow able to be organised more appropriately.

The GWR route from Exeter to Plymouth has long suffered from storm damage at Dawlish, and the Southern route round Dartmoor also had more than its fair share of problems, so part of the roster for crews at Exeter, Plymouth etc was a daily trip they each worked of one another's trains over the alternative route. Everyone took a turn. In those times they used to take their own locomotives as well, so it was apparent what was going on.

Things have changed since those days with privatisation. S&C is served by "Regional" Trains of a different Company and WCML by "Inter-City" operator. Also there is the `fact that VT use mostly Electric (390) trains and the S&C (Northern) sees DMUs.

 

[yorksrob]

Things have changed since those days with privatisation. S&C is served by "Regional" Trains of a different Company and WCML by "Inter-City" operator. Also there is the `fact that VT use mostly Electric (390) trains and the S&C (Northern) sees DMUs.

But diversions lasted well into the privatised era, regardless of regional versus InterCity operators.

Perhaps they need to develop an off the shelf emergency timetable involving a diesel shuttle between Preston and Glasgow via Settle which can connect with electric trains southwards.

 

[Starmill]

Maybe Mods could rename this thread North WCML Disruption discussion or something as it is becoming more regular as posters before me have mentioned. the ideal would be if they could wire up the S and C and book 1 turn each day to use it for driver and guard knoledge, meaning that you wouldnt need voyagers or Locos. I was at CAR yesturday evening and a lot of foalk didnt really know what was going on.↲

Electrify the Settle and Carlisle line? Including Preston - Blackburn - Hellifield?

Quick - where's jcollins? We've finally found an electrification project that comes further down that the Mid-Cheshire line!

 

[underbank]

Not a good start to the new year flooding between Oxenholme & Penrith with trains turning back at Carlisle or Preston.

Why aren't they turning at Lancaster? I thought that was the main purpose of the new crossover to platform 5 - certainly what was celebrated in the press releases at the time to justify the engineering works closures.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

...the ideal would be if they could wire up the S and C and book 1 turn each day to use it for driver and guard knoledge, ...

Route knowledge is already covered by this and this three times a week (as appropriate). Highly, highly doubt you'd ever get a regular booked passenger service from the WCML via the S&C, let alone juicing for the purpose of it.

 

[mbonwick]

Obviously it's a rural area but from my non-scientific opinion there seems to be an awful lot of flooding/landslide problems around oxenholme.

I believe the flooding was nearer Tebay. Let's not forget that Oxenholme - Penrith is 40-odd miles, so a lot of distance for things to go wrong in.

 

[edwin_m]

I believe the flooding was nearer Tebay. Let's not forget that Oxenholme - Penrith is 40-odd miles, so a lot of distance for things to go wrong in.

Also it's in the wettest part of England so plenty of scope for cloudbursts leading to rivers overflowing.