WCML Future Routes

[MidnightFlyer]

I think it would be obviously sensible for Bham-Glasgow Central and MPicc-Glasgow Central to be turned over to the ICWC franchise at the next available opportunity. You would then run Euston-Central as:

Watford Junction, Milton Keynes Central, Preston, Lancaster, Oxenholme, Penrith, Carlisle, Lockerbie, Motherwell

BNS-Central as:

Stafford, Crewe, Warrington BQ, Wigan NW, Preston, Lancaster, Carlisle,

and Piccadilly-Central as:

Wigan NW, Preston, Penrith, Carlisle, Lockerbie, Motherwell

You'd never get that many calling points off-peak. Further, removing Warrrington and Wigan from London trains would be a massive backward step too.

You'd also propose dropping Wolves from Scotland trains and giving Lockerbie / Motherwell 4tph on the WCML? That would be a bad move and overkill respectively.

I'd say:
- Euston, Keynes, and as now to Glasgow.
- New St-Scotland as now, but with stops at Oxenholme / Penrith alternating with the Manchester-Scotland trains.
- Manchester-Wigan-Preston-as above-Carlisle-Lockerbie-Motherwell-Glasgow.

 

[Polarbear]

I can see WCML services being diverted via Manchester once the wires are up & this will make life easier all round for the operators. No more diesel drags & much quicker diversions too.

However, I can't see any normal passenger services going this way. I recall the days when Voyagers went this way on the Virgin XC franchise & that didn't exactly work well.

Also, one rather large practicaility that spings to mind is would a Pendolino actually fit on P13/14 at Manchester Piccadilly?

 

[Zoe]

I recall the days when Voyagers went this way on the Virgin XC franchise & that didn't exactly work well.

Why didn't it work well? Before the Voyagers Virgin Cross Country ran services to Glasgow via Manchester.

 

[Waverley125]

Sorry, Wolverhampton was an omission of brainfart, and would obviously be on the BHM-GLC service.

The dropping of Warrington on the London service would be in exchange for:

1) A stop on a fast Liverpool-London service via St Helens, i.e. St Helens Junction, Warrington Bank Quay, Euston

2) A stop on the new hourly Blackpool-Euston service via Watford, MKC, Stafford, Crewe, WBQ, WNW & Preston

other than that, the proposed timetable gives:

-clockface service to London & Glasgow to major stations in England, and all north of Preston

-hourly Anglo-Scottish service for Crewe, Warrington, Wigan & Stafford, bi-hourly for Preston and Carlisle

-hourly fast service into Manchester for stations north of Preston.

 

[sonic2009]

platform 13 and 14 are quite long, so i'd assume an 11 car would just about fit.

 

[calc7]

You'd never get that many calling points off-peak. Further, removing Warrrington and Wigan from London trains would be a massive backward step too.

You'd also propose dropping Wolves from Scotland trains and giving Lockerbie / Motherwell 4tph on the WCML? That would be a bad move and overkill respectively.

I'd say:
- Euston, Keynes, and as now to Glasgow.
- New St-Scotland as now, but with stops at Oxenholme / Penrith alternating with the Manchester-Scotland trains.
- Manchester-Wigan-Preston-as above-Carlisle-Lockerbie-Motherwell-Glasgow.

Agreed with everything in this post. If stopping at MKC then passengers from Watford can change there.

Certainly no need for overkill stops at Motherwell (only just outside Glasgow) and Lockerbie (4 ICtph?!)

 

[Zoe]

Certainly no need for overkill stops at Motherwell

It can be a bit frustrating passing through Motherwell after a long journey and then crawling into Glasgow Central and having to get a stopper back out, extending the journey time. However I understand that there is a need to provide fast services to and from Glasgow and stopping at Motherwell doesn't help with this.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

How would Northampton (and for special events) Wembley Central fare?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

How would Northampton (and for special events) Wembley Central fare?

Northampton would be a 20-25 minute time penalty, so on any EUS-GLC run that is out of the question. As for Wembley Central. Maybe, it just depends on numbers, and whether the main line platforms at Wembley Central could take an 11-car Pendolino.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

Northampton would be a 20-25 minute time penalty, so on any EUS-GLC run that is out of the question. As for Wembley Central. Maybe, it just depends on numbers, and whether the main line platforms at Wembley Central could take an 11-car Pendolino.

If a Scotlondon stopper started, it would probably serve Northampton?
as for Wembley, special events only like Saturdays Flame Conference (I have to get a coach as there's no stopping at WC (or my school and that's on the WCML too)
WCML and GWML merging in the future may be an idea, but no electric after Exeter?

 

[NSE]

How would Northampton (and for special events) Wembley Central fare?

Northampton seems to fine with what it has, and pax can change easily at MKC if they need to. Wembley also doesn't need IC trains, maybe one Tring stopper an hour toward Euston would help, but nothing more than that really.

Also I really don't think capacity and resources are best used on a Scotland London stopper, I see no need for the service to run, as who would use it, the intermediate stops are already served by local and other intercity services and it would take far to long.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

Northampton seems to fine with what it has, and pax can change easily at MKC if they need to. Wembley also doesn't need IC trains, maybe one Tring stopper an hour toward Euston would help, but nothing more than that really.

When are these MKC stops? Ive rode a train nonstop to Rugby, then Tamworth &Lichy then WW to Preston but never MKC.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

If a Scotlondon stopper started, it would probably serve Northampton?
as for Wembley, special events only like Saturdays Flame Conference (I have to get a coach as there's no stopping at WC (or my school and that's on the WCML too)
WCML and GWML merging in the future may be an idea, but no electric after Exeter?

I doubt it, most Scottish traffic ex-NMP I would have thought would be covered by Euston or Birmingham (or Keynes if calls were introduced / by the existing extended EBW trains).

Special events I meant by literally hundreds in attendance per train - i.e. finals at Wembley and not much more, or major exhibition events.

Merging? Maybe, but I would have thought the XC route via Cheltenham would be more viable ex-the North.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

When are these MKC stops? Ive rode a train nonstop to Rugby, then Tamworth &Lichy then WW to Preston but never MKC.

Some Euston-Wolves train a day now are extended to Scotland, merging the EBW trains and Brum-Scotland runs. MKC is served by several of these trains M-Sa.

 

[NSE]

When are these MKC stops? Ive rode a train nonstop to Rugby, then Tamworth &Lichy then WW to Preston but never MKC.

I mean at Northampton pax can easily get to Euston, or to MKC to change for a VT if they want, or to head north, again to MKC for Man Picc, Chester or Crewe, or a Birmingham train via Rugby. So yes, intercity trains at Northampton would be nice, but not the most immediate problem.

 

[Zoe]

I mean at Northampton pax

Is it really that difficult to type out the word passengers?

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

I doubt it, most Scottish traffic ex-NMP I would have thought would be covered by Euston or Birmingham (or Keynes if calls were introduced / by the existing extended EBW trains).

Special events I meant by literally hundreds in attendance per train - i.e. finals at Wembley and not much more, or major exhibition events.

Merging? Maybe, but I would have thought the XC route via Cheltenham would be more viable ex-the North.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Some Euston-Wolves train a day now are extended to Scotland, merging the EBW trains and Brum-Scotland runs. MKC is served by several of these trains M-Sa.

1tpd and it passes school during lunch break. I'd appreciate LM doing a service covering this route so VT can run a highspeed version. Teamwork might just work here.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

1tpd and it passes school during lunch break.

Sorry?

 

[NSE]

Is it really that difficult to type out the word passenger?

Yes

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

Sorry?

I thought there was 1tpd and I see it running EDB-EUS via BNS at lunch break.

 

[NSE]

Before everyone else cuts in, New Street's code is BHM, BNS is Barnes in South
London

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

Before everyone else cuts in, New Street's code is BHM, BNS is Barnes in South
London

Everyone uses BNS for New Street, that's why I do

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Everyone uses BNS for New Street, that's why I do

"Everyone" is certainly not the case for that particular example....."Hardly anyone" would be a more apt term to use.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

"Everyone" is certainly not the case for that particular example....."Hardly anyone" would be a more apt term to use.

I've seen it used quite a lot. And now well get back on topic.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I thought there was 1tpd and I see it running EDB-EUS via BNS at lunch break.

It doesn't really help when I don't know your lunch hours. There's 2tpd anyway EUS-EDB plus 2 / 3tpd EUS-GLC extra.

 

[NSE]

"Everyone" is certainly not the case for that particular example....."Hardly anyone" would be a more apt term to use.

My thoughts exactly, I don't think I've ever seen anyone use BNS with out a mention of Barnes cropping up

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Everyone uses BNS for New Street, that's why I do

I've seen it used quite a lot. And now well get back on topic.

That is untrue - it tends to be people who are genuinely unaware or can't be arsed to check. It certainly makes things a lot tougher to read at times when people do this, such as LLS - it isn't Liverpool Lime St, it's Llanishen in Cardiff.

I would hope on a railway forum people could at least do research or use official railway codes.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

It doesn't really help when I don't know your lunch hours. There's 2tpd anyway EUS-EDB plus 2 / 3tpd EUS-GLC extra.

Oh. The train passes between 13:40 and 14:30.
Thanks for that tidbit, it seems more realistic now.

 

[NSE]

Out of interest, does anyone know if any extra calls are going to be considered for Stafford? I ask mostly out of selfishness as I travel there, but also I figured if the Liverpool service couldn't be doubled, then an additional stop for Stafford might relieve some pressure.

 

[Zoe]

Out of interest, does anyone know if any extra calls are going to be considered for Stafford?

A minimum service requirement has been specified but beyond that it's up to the bidders.

 

[NSE]

I assume the minimum service requirement is the same as it is right now? 1 an hour and a couple of extras here and there in the peaks and very early/very late.