Western Greyhound Fire and subsequent WG general discussion.

[richw]

Unfortunately I won't be able to sample it, I have a holiday flying out from Exeter tomorrow lunchtime.

To me it shows making the best of a bad situation, all of their historic fleet that are licenced for passenger use are being sent out.
The Routemaster will be full of happy enthusasists, and moaning commuters unhappy with age of their bus to work.

 

[christopher]

The Routemaster will be full of happy enthusasists, and moaning commuters unhappy with age of their bus to work.

I wouldn't say that, It's surprising how a Routemaster can bring out the 'inner fan' inside normal people

 

[47245]

Provisional losses that I am aware of:

259 - Bristol VR
401 - Enviro 400
402 - Enviro 400
440 - Dennis Trident
442 - Dennis Trident
444 - Dennis Trident
445 - Dennis Trident
450 - Volvo Olympian
452 - Volvo Olympian
453 - Volvo Olympian
467 - Volvo Olympian
473 - Volvo Olympian
475 - Volvo Olympian
498 - Volvo Olympian
499 - Volvo Olympian
.

That's most of the double deckers gone if that is true, those enviro 400 were brilliant on the 510 route performing very well on steep hills and had a good turn of speed on the A30 plus I think one or both of them recently had wifi fitted to them.
I think it's brilliant in the industry that other operators have offered their buses should WG need them.

 

[winston270twm]

I doubt there will close up shop, insurance will cover the 37 buses, dare some a new order will be forthcoming, while hired in spares can be used until then.

Hopeful there catch who ever did this.

It's no just the loss of the buses that needs to be considered, its the loss of revenue, staff will still need to be paid etc. Would insurance cover the revenue loss?

 

[anthony263]

I think it's brilliant in the industry that other operators have offered their buses should WG need them.

Its not actually a rare thing. When Stagecoach wales had the fire at it think it was either Merthyr or Aberdare depots I did here that First Cymru had offered to loan them some buses.

Stagecoach didnt take up this offer instead they did borrow one or two vehicles from two other operators within close procimity to the Merthyr depot along with borrowing vehicles from their other depts/operations at Cwmbran, Gloucester and Exeter.

There does seem to be a bit of a brotherhood in the bus industry between operators especially the smaller independents

 

[Goldfish62]

That's most of the double deckers gone if that is true, those enviro 400 were brilliant on the 510 route performing very well on steep hills and had a good turn of speed on the A30 plus I think one or both of them recently had wifi fitted to them.
I think it's brilliant in the industry that other operators have offered their buses should WG need them.

Yes, all except three of their double decks look to have been destroyed.:cry:

However, Mark Howarth sounded very bullish about recovering asap and said he has had offers of vehicles from operators and manufactures. Also First Devon and Cornwall are accepting Western Greyhound season tickets.

 

[DaveHarries]

I think it's brilliant in the industry that other operators have offered their buses should WG need them.

Agreed. Normally bus operators can be rivals but when a bad situation crops up like this then it is great that the rivalry is forgotten.

Hadn't seen anything posted about the offers by other operators of loan vehicles: presumably Summercourt Travel and FDC would consider making offers but I wonder who else? I think Stagecoach have a store somewhere full of unlicensed vehicles?

Glad also that some of the manufacturers have offered loans. Optare I guess will likely have a part of that because of the number of Solos & Solo SRs in the WGL fleet. Wonder if a Wright StreetLite and an Enviro200 or two might crop up as well if Mark takes the offers up. Good luck to Mark and all the Summercourt drivers anyway.

Dave

 

[richw]

On facebook drivers from other parts of country were offering to provide extra customer services for western greyhound. Amazing the support from other operators.

 

[robertclark125]

I know they have a few outstations, with vehicles changing daily, but does Western greyhound have any other depots with their own allocations, and where maintenance is carried out?

 

[83G/84D]

2 brand new Solos apparently that had never seen operations as well!

Heard this on local TV last night, anyone have details of the new vehicles?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Agreed. Normally bus operators can be rivals but when a bad situation crops up like this then it is great that the rivalry is forgotten.

Hadn't seen anything posted about the offers by other operators of loan vehicles: presumably Summercourt Travel and FDC would consider making offers but I wonder who else? I think Stagecoach have a store somewhere full of unlicensed vehicles?

Glad also that some of the manufacturers have offered loans. Optare I guess will likely have a part of that because of the number of Solos & Solo SRs in the WGL fleet. Wonder if a Wright StreetLite and an Enviro200 or two might crop up as well if Mark takes the offers up. Good luck to Mark and all the Summercourt drivers anyway.

Dave

Stagecoach did have a number of older buses stored in Devon however I am not sure how quick they can be made roadworthy. Last year I was at the site and some of the examples there then looked in pretty good nick.

Also not sure what is left there as some may have been sold on.

 

[CC 72100]

Just seen on spotlight (bbc D + C) - they believe it WAS started deliberately

 

[83G/84D]

Just seen on spotlight (bbc D + C) - they believe it WAS started deliberately

BBC Radio Cornwall saying the same.

 

[IanXC]

It's no just the loss of the buses that needs to be considered, its the loss of revenue, staff will still need to be paid etc. Would insurance cover the revenue loss?

Without knowing the ins and outs of insuring buses its hard to be sure, however I would have thought whether through the main bus policy, or a separate business protection policy, the business ought to be insured against those risks.

 

[DaveHarries]

It seems as if the operating situation has improved a bit already. Yesterday WGL said that 11 routes were suspended but they have obviously managed to get some vehicles from somewhere as the 8:30am update from their website says that only 8 routes are not running. Perhaps some loan vehicles have come in already? If so i wonder what. Anyway:

Not Running: 522, 547, 556, 557, 558, 559, 585, 596
Reduced Timetable: 524, 525, 550/551, 591/592 (St Columb Major to Truro section only is reduced)

Good to see that the situation is better this morning when compared to yesterday.

Dave

 

[shinkansen1966]

I'm keenly following the story.

Will be visiting Cornwall in July. From London and don't drive, so will be using buses and trains there. Been impressed with Western Greyound's route network, web site and inter-connection of services.

Sadden to hear the news of the bus fire. And, it seems, the effors to restore the services.

Best of luck to WG...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The summer 2013 timetable was scheduled to start on 25th May. Are there many more services in that than the winter timetable ?

 

[overthewater]

The summer 2013 timetable was scheduled to start on 25th May. Are there many more services in that than the winter timetable ?

Yes, but not by much I believe.

 

[SWTH]

Perhaps some loan vehicles have come in already? If so i wonder what.

Dave

No loan vehicles yet, just a re-arrangement of the available fleet and their usage. Also to clarify - the two SR's destroyed were from the 981-988 batch delivered two years ago. There have been no new buses at WGL since then.

 

[Goldfish62]

No loan vehicles yet, just a re-arrangement of the available fleet and their usage. Also to clarify - the two SR's destroyed were from the 981-988 batch delivered two years ago. There have been no new buses at WGL since then.

Yes, I thought the reports of new buses were dubious. WG has had a hard time since since losing a lot of work to First in 2012 and no doubt hasn't been in a position to invest in new vehicles for a while.

What makes the current situation even worse is that the company still has over 40 Varios, all of which have to be replaced by the DDA deadline of the end of next year. The destruction of what may well be the majority of the low floor fleet makes this task seemingly even more problematic.

 

[robertclark125]

Goldfish, could leasing of Solos from big groups be a possiblilty? I'm suggesting this as in Summer 2007, Rennies leased 18 double deckers from Stagecoach East Scotland for school contracts. However, on that occasion, stagecoach went on to buy Rennies. I should add, re the Solos, I'm not suggesting new, but maybe 5-8 years old.

 

[anthony263]

What makes the current situation even worse is that the company still has over 40 Varios, all of which have to be replaced by the DDA deadline of the end of next year. The destruction of what may well be the majority of the low floor fleet makes this task seemingly even more problematic.

Some of the varios are fitted with wheelchair lifts which mades the compliant with the dda regulations.

Quiete a bit of a surprise but certainly good for some operators as this bus design is good for rrural routes which a solo etc would not be able to cope with

 

[TEW]

The destruction of what may well be the majority of the low floor fleet makes this task seemingly even more problematic.

I don't think the losses were so bad to the solos as they were to the double decker fleet which has been almost entirely wiped out. Although the P&R citaros were low floor they were dedicated to the Truro park and ride. That said the Hayle and Penzance outstations are entirely Varios apart from the 2 deckers there. Helston which closed with the loss of work last year usually had 4 or 5 solos. I'm not sure of the allocations to the more Northern depots.

 

[Goldfish62]

Some of the varios are fitted with wheelchair lifts which mades the compliant with the dda regulations.

Quiete a bit of a surprise but certainly good for some operators as this bus design is good for rrural routes which a solo etc would not be able to cope with

The two buses that have lifts are not exempt from Public Service Vehicle Accessibility Regulations which require all single deck buses of less than 7.5 tonnes and more than 23 seats to be of certified low floor design if used on local bus services after 31 Dec 2014. Don't confuse this with the DDA exemption that continued to allow them to be built.

Their Varios could however continue to be used on private hire and express work.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Some of the varios are fitted with wheelchair lifts which mades the compliant with the dda regulations.

Quiete a bit of a surprise but certainly good for some operators as this bus design is good for rrural routes which a solo etc would not be able to cope with

WG's Solos are used extensively on rural routes and the smallest are smaller than any Vario. However, they are much more expensive to operate. WG's rightful success has been built on the use of inexpensive, reliable Varios, but that's not going to last much longer.

 

[SWTH]

Whilst the Solos can go almost everywhere that a Vario can (for example, Harlyn Bay bridge on the Newquay-Padstow 556 route can cause issues for M920/950/SR variants because of grounding), they just aren't as capable, reliable or easy to handle on tight country roads as a Vario. The Mercedes-engined examples are also severely underpowered - the extra weight of the Solo body and the automatic gearbox (the OM-904 engine is largely the same as used in the Vario) completely ruin any hill-climbing ability.

Before the fire WGL had 35 Vario's in the active fleet (fleet numbers 551-582, 591/2/9). A couple of weeks ago they had started a programme of resurrecting a handful of Vario's that had been stored as strategic spares or were for sale. 500/S100 PAF, the oldest Vario in the fleet, appears to be the first to be nearly ready for service, newly painted in an all-over green livery and as of yesterday having mechanical work done at Summercourt. I presume it's entry into service will be down to obtaining a slot at the MoT centre.

5 double deckers survive, these are:
441 - Dennis Trident
443 - Dennis Trident
455 - Volvo Olympian
472 - Volvo Olympian
476 - Volvo Olympian

478 whilst still on the published fleetlist has been stripped for spares (last in service mid-2011 if I remember correctly). It could well have been scrapped by now - I have not been to the location it was stored at for several months.

 

[DaveHarries]

The situation with Western Greyhound continues to get better despite the circumstances of the last couple of days. On Monday there were 11 routes suspended. On Tuesday there were 8 routes suspended and this morning (Wednesday) there are only 5! In summary:

Not Running: 522, 547, 557, 585, 596
Reduced Service: 524, 525, 550, 551, 556 (schools only), 558, 559, 586, 591, 592, 594

To manage something like 85% service with only 65% of the required fleet is no mean feat. Well done to all at WGL for refusing to be beaten.

Dave

 

[richw]

On their facebook page there are comments suggesting they have some stagecoach vehicles from Gloucester and Cheltenham area. I have come to this assumption as there was a post from someone whosigned off there comment as there name and then gloucseter and Cheltenham stagecoach mentioning there buses being down to wg.

 

[SWTH]

None yet that I am aware of, we have had plenty of offers though, even from firms as far away as Edinburgh! I would think Stagecoach West are probably one of the more likely suppliers of spare vehicles, bearing in mind the recent annual re-activation of the reserves for Gold Cup week back in March they should be near ready to go.

 

[BestWestern]

This is very sad, and just goes to show - as if we didn't already know - that there are some very troubled people in this world. What it also shows is that bus companies really must find something more appropriate for vehicle storage than just parking them in the street or behind an easily defeated fence. For whatever reason, unsecured buses seem to attract scum, be they breaking windows, stealing them or, worst of all, setting them alight. Bus depots shouldn't have to be like fortresses, but I lose count of how many perfectly serviceable vehicles have been mindlessly destroyed by damaged people deciding to set them on fire. Sadly it seems operators just don't see the risk, or choose to ignore it and hope for the best.

I wish WG the very best and sincerely hope that this superb operator makes a full recovery. I also hope they will invest at the earliest opportunity in better security measures.

 

[83G/84D]

According to the conductor on the Routemaster yesterday the vehicle is to continue in service on the revised 586 service for at least a couple of weeks all being well. Also when they get some drivers back from leave next week trhey are "hoping" to use some of the other heritage vehicles,no further details at present.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I sincerely hope that their fleet will soon return to the number levels existing before the fire, so they can efficiently run the services that they had planned in their summer timetable. My wife and I have always enjoyed travelling with this company when we were visiting Cornwall and "letting the bus take the strain".