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What do think about the Christmas closedown?

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scarby

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Power is an essential service; rail transport is not.

I'm nowhere near being a traditionalist, but I do think it's pretty sad that people (within reason) can't stop just for one day.

I agree; however, my original point was that this is not just one day.

The closedown even begins on 24th. For example, the last train out of Scarborough to York on the 24th is at 19.48 instead of the normal 22.03. The next one is not until 07.00 on the 27th: a 59 hour gap between services.
 
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Zoe

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It really isn't. Last I checked hospitals used electricity, on a more mundane topic so do streetlights and almost all forms of light
It is a debatable point even if you don't think it is. The debate here is what should be considered an essential service, there is no doubt that the emergency services are essential though. TV on Christmas Day is most likely less essential than transport but they don't shut down the TV stations. It's possible in theory that electricity that day could be supplied to essential services only and this would allow some power plants to be shut down. As for street lightning, it would seem that this isn't considered as essential as it used to be as some areas are switching off street lights after midnight.
 

Greenback

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I am sure Stagecoach, First, Go Ahead etc would love to run a train service on boxing day, now who is going to PAY for it?

Yes, that is the main issue. Despite what has been said about football matches and horse racing, there is going to be far less demand for services on Boxing Day than on other days. Business travel will be negligible.

Which is already the case for people who cannot drive.

If you cannot drive, unless you are prepared to take a taxi, or walk/cycle 30+ miles in winter, at most places in England and Wales and parts of Scotland, you are trapped in the same place from around 9-10pm on December 24 to 7-8am on December 27.

You ar emaking a great argument for the railway to be treated as a public service once again. Sadly, in my opinion, it hasn't been seen in those terms for over thirty years at least.

Even if there were trains on Boxing Day, many people would still be effectively isolated, either through having no accessible railway or station or by having no useful service at that particular place. Unless, of course, you are arguing for a full weekday type service?

The issue is: Is this the right way to run a railway? NO-ONE else in Europe does this. Not for 60 hours!

I don't think it is the right way to run a railway. But then, my views could be seen as old fashioned as I also think that it is lamentable that large swathes of the country are now without railways and trains completely, whilst others have a sparse service of one train a week, or four or five a day. This is because railways ar emeant to pay their way, and this is what I very much doubt would happen on Boxing Day.

There does seem to be a certain defeatism here. TOCs provide a poor service on 26th, so people don't use it, therefore it is assumed that no one would use a better service, so it would result in a loss. What about putting on a full service, perhaps even at reduced fares, and seeing what happens. The sort of commercial enterprise TOCs are meant to show

That is the sor tof commercial enterprise that has been largely absent from the privatised railway since it's icneption, despite the intention of the process being to bring innovation!

What if all power workers were allowed to take Xmas & Boxing day off? Soon would get Joe Public up in arms ! We work .... so why dont rail workers?? Get off yer butts and do it, you are not above the rest of the utility workers who do work 24/7. :(

It's virtually impossible to exist in the modern world without power. As we keep getting told by the anti railway pressure groups, only a small proportion of citizens use the train. Which is no doubt why it's not seen as an essential public service.
 

tbtc

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Yes, that is the main issue. Despite what has been said about football matches and horse racing, there is going to be far less demand for services on Boxing Day than on other days. Business travel will be negligible.

On the first day of the "Sales" services to places like Meadowhall would be crammed, I reckon.
 

Zoe

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On the first day of the "Sales" services to places like Meadowhall would be crammed
If a store opened on Christmas Day and started their sale then (by law they are not allowed to if it's a large store) then do you think there would be any customers or would they all be too busy at home on that special day?
 

ole man

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It is a debatable point even if you don't think it is. The debate here is what should be considered an essential service, there is no doubt that the emergency services are essential though. TV on Christmas Day is most likely less essential than transport but they don't shut down the TV stations. It's possible in theory that electricity that day could be supplied to essential services only and this would allow some power plants to be shut down. As for street lightning, it would seem that this isn't considered as essential as it used to be as some areas are switching off street lights after midnight.
So what would you leave on? Would you have the UK like the North Pole?
To many people rely on power, people have to work, so motorways would still be open, meaning Police, Fire would still be working.
Even Motorway services need power to able you to fill up, and keep cool them Rancid Pasties they sell
 

Greenback

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On the first day of the "Sales" services to places like Meadowhall would be crammed, I reckon.

You may be right, there may be particular flows that would be extremely popular at certain times of the day. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the service would be profitable, given the costs and the fares involved.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If a store opened on Christmas Day and started their sale then (by law they are not allowed to if it's a large store) then do you think there would be any customers or would they all be too busy at home on that special day?

Sorry, we were talking about Boxing Day - I don;t think many people are arguing for a service on Christmas Day!
 

Zoe

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Even Motorway services need power to able you to fill up, and keep cool them Rancid Pasties they sell
Do there really need to be any motorway services open on Christmas Day if everyone is at home and doesn't need to travel?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry, we were talking about Boxing Day - I don;t think many people are arguing for a service on Christmas Day!
I know you are, I'd just be interested to know if people would think the sales more important than staying at home if a store did open on Christmas Day.
 
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AlterEgo

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What if all power workers were allowed to take Xmas & Boxing day off? Soon would get Joe Public up in arms ! We work .... so why dont rail workers?? Get off yer butts and do it, you are not above the rest of the utility workers who do work 24/7. :(

OK, I'll get off my butt if you pay me....er....five hundred pounds. And I want a day off in lieu.
 

Greenback

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I know you are, I'd just be interested to know if people would think the sales more important than staying at home if a store did open on Christmas Day.

I wouldn't go to a sale on either day myself, but I accept that other people do!
 

Zoe

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Maybe it's about time the railway engineering staff started refusing to work on Christmas Day if it's that important.
 

ole man

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Maybe it's about time the railway engineering staff started refusing to work on Christmas Day if it's that important.
Like i said before the money is to good to turn down, im being offered 350 quid plus double time to work and a whatever days i work in lieu
 

tbtc

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You may be right, there may be particular flows that would be extremely popular at certain times of the day. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the service would be profitable, given the costs and the fares involved

A special service may be appropriate - as you say there'll be no "business" travel" - there would be demand on some routes though - as anyone who visits the shops on Boxing Day can confirm
 

AlterEgo

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I do neither. I wouldn't exactly call TV an essential service so why not shut down on all TV stations for a day?

Because there is always sufficient demand, and it makes a profit by continuing to broadcast.

The railway is a business, like it or not.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Maybe it's about time the railway engineering staff started refusing to work on Christmas Day if it's that important.

They wouldn't, because I imagine

A) it's in their contracts

B) they get paid properly for doing so
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It's possible in theory that electricity that day could be supplied to essential services only and this would allow some power plants to be shut down. As for street lightning, it would seem that this isn't considered as essential as it used to be as some areas are switching off street lights after midnight.

What are you on? Utilities are vital. People will die without heat on Christmas Day.

Also, have you considered that demand for power is quite high - therefore it makes a profit, and the staff are paid a lot for giving up their special day?
 

ole man

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Because there is always sufficient demand, and it makes a profit by continuing to broadcast.

The railway is a business, like it or not.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


They wouldn't, because I imagine

A) it's in their contracts

B) they get paid properly for doing so
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


What are you on? Utilities are vital. People will die without heat on Christmas Day.

Also, have you considered that demand for power is quite high - therefore it makes a profit, and the staff are paid a lot for giving up their special day?
Agreed a lot of rubbish coming from her, i bet zoe uses electricity over the xmas period, you could not survive without it
 

dk1

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Im still not going to drive trains on Christmas or Boxing Day because...

...I dont want to <D
 

dk1

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I would. But you are going to have to cross my palms with silver. And a lot of it.

We get the usual double time & a lieu day begging briefs. Respect to those that want it but some days are a step too far for me. Cant see ASLEF are ever going to agree to compulsary work. Those in the messroom would be revolting :lol:
 

SteamPower

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Who wants to work Christmas day? I'm sure anyone who would actually catch a train on Christmas day wouldn't be traveling to work themselves nor do I think they would want to be. Why do some people feel they can not survive for one/two days without shops/public transport?
 

Zoe

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People will die without heat on Christmas Day.
Heating is essential yes but the electricity company can still cut you off if you don't pay your bills. The example wasn't the best but the point is that on Christmas Day if electricity was for "essential use only" then this may well reduce the demand. It's not practical to enforce this right now though.
 

dk1

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Who wants to work Christmas day? I'm sure anyone who would actually catch a train on Christmas day wouldn't be traveling to work themselves nor do I think they would want to be. Why do some people feel they can not survive for one/two days without shops/public transport?

Those who have nothing better to do or those that have to work & want to make evryone else as miserable as themselves.
 

Zoe

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Agreed a lot of rubbish coming from her, i bet zoe uses electricity over the xmas period, you could not survive without it
It's not rubbish, how do you think people survived before electricity was available?
 

YorkshireBear

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It's not rubbish, how do you think people survived before electricity was available?

very differently to now. But have you ever survived long without electricity? The attitude in this country has changed.
 

Zoe

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very differently to now. But have you ever survived long without electricity? The attitude in this country has changed.
That may well be the case but I'm sure people could survive without internet for a day.
 

dk1

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That may well be the case but I'm sure people could survive without internet for a day.

I often get p*ssed off with myself for how much i do rely on it. Perhaps losing it &/or electricity for a short time would make us all, dare i say it, talk to friends, family & loved ones just a little bit more than we do.
 

ole man

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Have you narrowed it down to the internet now?.
It was Power at first, then people have proved you wrong now its just the Internet!!
 

marks87

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The Internet is more than just sitting down in front of a PC looking at websites. People rely on it now for TV, radio, music...indeed, I'll probably not be "on the Internet" on Christmas Day, but I'll almost certainly be using Spotify.

Anyway, I can't help but think we're digressing somewhat!
 

Zoe

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Have you narrowed it down to the internet now?.
It was Power at first, then people have proved you wrong now its just the Internet!!
No, they are two different parts of the same issue. The debate here is as to what should be considered an essential service. Emergency services there is no doubt over. Heat is also essential but not all the electricity produced is actually used for heating homes. If public transport is not to be considered an essential service then the internet shouldn't either.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The Internet is more than just sitting down in front of a PC looking at websites. People rely on it now for TV, radio, music...indeed, I'll probably not be "on the Internet" on Christmas Day, but I'll almost certainly be using Spotify.
These however are not essential.
 

marks87

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These however are not essential.
You could argue that radio (4) is...

EDIT: actually, how did we get onto this involving Internet? Do people need to report to an "internet station" to make sure everyone can still be online?
 
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