What features should be on intercity trains?

[Bletchleyite]

You can always read the beano and have your fizzy pop sat in a normal seat.

Being a larger person, I quite like the idea of being able to pay a bit more for a larger seat, though. But that's all I think it should be, like it is in much of Europe. I always pay for extra legroom on flights, I'd always do the same on trains were the differential reasonable (and no less flexible than Standard).

 

[Marklund]

WiFi is becoming more pointless. It's a costly investment for decent wifi, and quickly outdated by developments.
Huge data contracts are becoming the norm. Netflix, Amazon Prime, and iPlayer all allow downloads.

 

[Bletchleyite]

WiFi is becoming more pointless. It's a costly investment for decent wifi, and quickly outdated by developments.
Huge data contracts are becoming the norm. Netflix, Amazon Prime, and iPlayer all allow downloads.

What *really* hacks me off with iPlayer is that it won't allow downloads (only streaming) on 4G. They really need to sort that out. I usually have 10GB per month on my iPad which is plenty for downloading, which I prefer to do so I can watch on the plane/train.

I tend to work around it by tethering it to my phone but that's a faff.

 

[fowler9]

I don't bother with wi-fi as it is normally hopeless and my phone contract gives me more data than I can hope to use.

 

[Marklund]

I tend to work around it by tethering it to my phone but that's a faff.

Tether my pad and phone routinely, it's not that much of a faff.
With VTEC doing the free wifi only booking through them, I always switch off the wifi when on their trains anyway.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I dont pay for first class. Perks of actually working on the trains.

But you need to remove your head from ones own rear.

I'm not being funny but aren't you still a child? You may see it completely different when you're paying full bat.

Get rid of first class and get more people onto an already overloaded system to alleviate problems.

You can always read the beano and have your fizzy pop sat in a normal seat.

I seriously need to remove the "14" from my status, adding that was the worst idea I ever had.

Don't read the Beano thank you very much! I said newspaper - eg: Daily Mail.

There are so many reasons why first class is a good idea, but I won't go into it now.

 

[Eccles1983]

You've just admitted reading the daily mail.

No further comment required.

 

[ooo]

So far the top 3 are

1. Plug Sockets
2. WiFi
3. First Class

which are all features most intercity trains at the moment have in some shape or form (some only have plugs at table seats, WiFi is chargeable in some cases etc)

 

[AM9]

There's much discussion about how much space and other 'treats' posters expect to get with first class travel compared with standard class. All of these enhancements come at a cost that should only be borne by those passengers benefiting from them. For instance, the current cost ratio of first to standard fares is about 1.6:1. Therefore if an inter-city coach seats 80 passengers in full standard class configuration, it would seat 50 passengers when configured for all 1st class.
Furthermore, if all theseadditional 'luxury' enticements such as complementary food and drink, wi-fi, better quality seats, and station lounges are part of the offer, the cost of providing them should also be covered by the additional cost of the ticket. It is already likely that despite the enhanced travel comforts that come with first class, standard class passengers may have to travel in coaches loaded above their seating capacity, so any fare structure that expects them to subsidise first class travel would be unacceptable. Similarly, any expectation that public funds subsidises those privileged travellers would also be unacceptable.

 

[fowler9]

I seriously need to remove the "14" from my status, adding that was the worst idea I ever had.

Don't read the Beano thank you very much! I said newspaper - eg: Daily Mail.

There are so many reasons why first class is a good idea, but I won't go into it now.

Yeah the Daily Mail isn't like Beano, more like Viz but with no sense of humour, offensive but no jokes.

 

[D365]

You've just admitted reading the daily mail.

No further comment required.

Using the Daily Mail as an example for a "newspaper" is enough cause for concern!

This discussion is one of opinion so I don't see why some feel the need to reply to and critique other comments if they are contrary to their own.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Well to be truthful I don't read it, I prefer the Metro and Evening Standard, but I didn't want you to think me a cheapskate I dont read pay for newspapers because they're not worth buying.

Anyway I never said I read it, I just said it is a type of newspaper.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You've just admitted reading the daily mail.

No further comment required.

No I didn't.

So yes further comment required.

 

[fowler9]

Well to be truthful I don't read it, I prefer the Metro and Evening Standard, but I didn't want you to think me a cheapskate I dont read pay for newspapers because they're not worth buying.

Anyway I never said I read it, I just said it is a type of newspaper.

Metro is part of the same media group as the Daily Mail. Too late now anyway, the damage is done. Ha ha. (I jest).

 

[87electric]

No I didn't.

So yes further comment required.

Keep digging.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Keep digging.

Mmm you might have a point.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Tether my pad and phone routinely, it's not that much of a faff.
With VTEC doing the free wifi only booking through them, I always switch off the wifi when on their trains anyway.

It’s a faff because it’s unnecessary - the BBC impose a restriction that simply is not needed.

 

[Starmill]

The only one of these that should be in any doubt is a buffet. If there is a trolley service the buffet is probably not neccesary and vice versa. Which is the best out of the two is probably a subject that could have a thread of its own.

 

[High Dyke]

Individuals will have a different idea of what they want, including me. however no-one has mentioned sufficient working toilets on every train. I agree the seat reservations can be a bit of a lottery, especially if the system books a seat and it isn't taken; or like last Monday travelling towards Scotland a couple were sat in a reserved seat, the booked seat holder turned up and only then did they realise they weren't in the correct coach. The reserving of seat during a journey needs to be stopped too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The reserving of seat during a journey needs to be stopped too.

Having reserved and unreserved coaches solves that too. If you want it, reserve it, at any point before or during the journey.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Let's start at the beginning.

What do we mean by 'an inter-city' train? I assume we're not too fussed about going from one place with an appropriate royal charter to another (Manchester - Salford? Manchester - Liverpool?) but we're interested in long distance trips (Crewe - Watford? Reading - Penzance?) which in turn means long journey times - which also in turn suggests that passengers may have more luggage than just a day bag.

So a train to do this sort of work should be comfortable to be in for quite a long time. That means
- adequate space. This probably in turn means enough seats for everyone, and those seats being big enough (width, leg room) for the modern Briton. It also means adequate luggage space.
- tolerably quiet. That's tolerable quietness from other passengers - but also tolerable quietness from the hardware. this would suggest not having diesel engines under the seats.
- life is sustainable. That means sufficient heating and ventilation: it also means sufficient toilets, and the availability of food and drink.

Once you've got the above, I'd argue it's a matter of marketing preference whether there's an all singing and dancing first class, whether the food comes round on a trolley or whether you have to go to a buffet, whether you can see out of the window, and so on. Some of today's trains (Voyagers are not alone here....) don't actually meet the basics I've listed for doing their jobs.

 

[High Dyke]

Having reserved and unreserved coaches solves that too. If you want it, reserve it, at any point before or during the journey.

Aye good point about unreserved coaches. It means those of us that are usually walk-up fare payers have a chance of a seat on longer distance journeys.

 

[Chester1]

WiFi is becoming more pointless. It's a costly investment for decent wifi, and quickly outdated by developments.
Huge data contracts are becoming the norm. Netflix, Amazon Prime, and iPlayer all allow downloads.

While big data packages are becoming common many people only have limited mobile data packages or still use PAYG phones. I have used nearly all of my monthly data allowance on holiday and station, train and Metrolink wifi has been very helpful during the last week or so. Also train wifi increasingly uses all 4 physical networks (EE, Vodafone, 02 and Three) and uses much more complex antenna than a phone therefore is more likely to provide a data signal.

There's much discussion about how much space and other 'treats' posters expect to get with first class travel compared with standard class. All of these enhancements come at a cost that should only be borne by those passengers benefiting from them. For instance, the current cost ratio of first to standard fares is about 1.6:1. Therefore if an inter-city coach seats 80 passengers in full standard class configuration, it would seat 50 passengers when configured for all 1st class.
Furthermore, if all theseadditional 'luxury' enticements such as complementary food and drink, wi-fi, better quality seats, and station lounges are part of the offer, the cost of providing them should also be covered by the additional cost of the ticket. It is already likely that despite the enhanced travel comforts that come with first class, standard class passengers may have to travel in coaches loaded above their seating capacity, so any fare structure that expects them to subsidise first class travel would be unacceptable. Similarly, any expectation that public funds subsidises those privileged travellers would also be unacceptable.

First Class generates more revanue per coach than standard class which is why ToCs have to be forced by DfT to reduce or remove it. For open returns the price ratio is more often 2:1 than 1.6:1.

 

[Intercity 225]

I selected everything apart from information displays because I usually find those more irritating than useful (appreciate that they may be handy for some).

Every other item listed should be a given for long distance travel in 2017 - the railway needs to enhance the quality of the experience, not be making retrograde steps. Even minor things such as seat to window alignment is subconsciously likely to improve the journey for everyone on board - including non-enthusiast travellers. Attention to detail along those lines (excuse the pun!) increases the likelihood of the railway becoming a preferred form of transport and also increases brand satisfaction for the TOC.

 

[Mikey C]

One possible addition to the list would be window blinds, something which the Pendolinos and 80x have, but Mk3s for example don't

 

[leightonbd]

Round wheels, powerful, well maintained engine, working toilet. Seats (with reservations). Trained staff who know their jobs.

Take those away and all the trolleys and power points in the world won't give you a good journey.

Everything else - everything listed bar reservations - is a luxury and you can DIY/ manage without. (I admit to being a bit of a Luddite in that I really don't see why we need 24/7 wifi at hand: nice to have but you can work around it).

A copy of the Daily Mail as a backup if the toilet might run out of supplies would be a useful extra.

 

[SwindonBert]

The only one of these that should be in any doubt is a buffet. If there is a trolley service the buffet is probably not neccesary and vice versa. Which is the best out of the two is probably a subject that could have a thread of its own.

I'd prefer a buffet over a trolley for a number of reasons, including:
- easier to find the buffet (aim for the area between first & standard) rather than think I'd like a drink, which of the 8 carriages is it in
- lots of trips would have blockages stopping the trolley, try moving yourself on commuter services let alone with a trolley
- bigger choice with a buffet

 

[Intercity 225]

One possible addition to the list would be window blinds, something which the Pendolinos and 80x have, but Mk3s for example don't

Good shout, or as an alternative curtains which I personally prefer. Reason being they allow more flexibility than blinds e.g. one passenger may want to sleep or prevent glare whereas another may want a good view. Curtains are better suited for those alternative requirements than a blind which remains fixed in a single position for all users.

 

[ooo]

Sorry curtains aren't in the poll because there is a limit on the number of options that can be added

 

[Bletchleyite]

One possible addition to the list would be window blinds, something which the Pendolinos and 80x have, but Mk3s for example don't

Definitely *not* blinds, they cause arguments. Curtains, yes.