What travel is currently allowed by the legislation?

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Ianno87

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I think you are right. I spoke to a BTP officer at York station and he told me leisure travel was allowed.
My (unofficial) impression is that it is generally discouraged, but something of a blind eye might be turned for people without their own car for relatively short journeys if the train is otherwise empty.



Interesting. How does someone who isn't a key worker but can't work from home get to work then? It's been quite clear in government guidance since the very beginning that you're allowed to travel into work if you can't work from home.

I suppose, one could simply use the argument that they are leaving the station area - by train.
Trains are available to all those who cannot work from home and are unable to drive to work.
 
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stevetay3

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Government advice is not law it is advice, at the moment it is virtually worthless advice that there own people do not abide by. And no TOC are not allowed to make there own rules regarding people’s movement.
 

abbo1234

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Plenty of people on the train to Blackpool today.Yes leisure journeys are allowed , asked at the station. Families with children with buckets and spades, on the train also.
 

Ianno87

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Geoff Marshall put it nicely. Train riding *is* a form of therapy, relaxation and familiarity to many, including myself. A day out by car just isn't the same.

There is a mental health implication of perptuating the ESSENTIAL JOURNEYS ONLY! message.

From a personal point of view, trains are one of the things that give me purpose to exist on this earth. It's bloody hard being "banned" from them!
 

carlberry

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Interesting. How does someone who isn't a key worker but can't work from home get to work then? It's been quite clear in government guidance since the very beginning that you're allowed to travel into work if you can't work from home.

I suppose, one could simply use the argument that they are leaving the station area - by train.
Just say you're testing your eyesight!
 

High Dyke

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You can't get a train to Barnard Castle.

Interestingly enough I was talking to young mother, whilst at work, on Saturday. Her son loves trains and she was tempted to just hop on the train for the 20 minute journey to the nearest large town. However, she was a little concerned about the limited service that stops at her home station - just three stopping trains per day at the moment, and whether she was actually allowed to use the train.
 

Jamesrob637

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What about if you live next to/near a station and the next one is only within a mile, so could form part of your daily exercise? That's almost seen as essential, although you can usually go another way.
 

PHILIPE

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TFW are adamant and stress that the trains are for the purpose of essential workers travel only. They do add that they have no power to prevent people from travelling but BTP do and do check stations. Only yesterday 2 people were sent home from Shotton by BTP as their journeys were non-essential. I thought this policy was widespread throughout the Network
 

py_megapixel

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TFW are adamant and stress that the trains are for the purpose of essential workers travel only. They do add that they have no power to prevent people from travelling but BTP do and do check stations. Only yesterday 2 people were sent home from Shotton by BTP as their journeys were non-essential. I thought this policy was widespread throughout the Network
Wales have more stringent regulations, though I don't know if they affect train travel.
 

Ianno87

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And yet Geoff specifically pointed out he has been avoiding train travel, because his journeys are not (usually) essential.
That is what I am trying to spell out here.
Yes, many of us (myself included) want to get back out travelling. For many of us (again, myself included), travelling helps with mental health issues and with relaxation etc etc.
However our journeys are not necessities for life. And given the ToC's are specifically asking people to avoid travelling if they can do so (again, that was the whole point of Geoff's video), surely the sensible thing to do is to do exactly that - avoid rail travel unless you can't?

And in terms of there being mental health implications - well there are from many other things too like pubs etc being closed, with people not being able to see friends and family etc. Wanting to travel by train is no more a need than any of those other things.
But quite clear (to my eyes) Geoff was finding it as hard as everyone else, but it's been a necessary evil. It's what we're all taking 'for the team' for the time being for quite good reasons.

I'm just watching basically empty trains run around and if the odd one or two people hopped on for an 'escape' it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference for social distancing.
 

yorkie

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Here is the list of what travel is permitted:


Restrictions on movement

6.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave [F1or be outside of] the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—

( a)to obtain basic necessities, including food and medical supplies for those in the same household (including any pets or animals in the household) or for vulnerable persons and supplies for the essential upkeep, maintenance and functioning of the household, or the household of a vulnerable person, F2... including from any business listed in Part 3 of Schedule 2;

[F3(aa)to obtain money from or deposit money with any business listed in paragraphs 33 or 34 of Schedule 2;]

[F4(ab)to collect goods which have been ordered from a business in any way permitted under regulation 5(1)(a);]

[F5(b)to take exercise—

(i)alone,

(ii)with one or more members of their household, or

(iii)with one member of another household;]

[F6(ba)to visit a public open space for the purposes of open-air recreation to promote their physical or mental health or emotional wellbeing—

(i)alone,

(ii)with one or more members of their household, or

(iii)with one member of another household;]

(c)to seek medical assistance, including to access any of the services referred to in paragraph 37 or 38 of Schedule 2;

(d)to provide care or assistance, including relevant personal care within the meaning of paragraph 7(3B) of Schedule 4 to the Safeguarding of Vulnerable Groups Act 2006 F7, to a vulnerable person, or to provide emergency assistance;

(e)to donate blood;

(f)to F8... work or to provide voluntary or charitable services, where it is not reasonably possible for that person to work, or to provide those services, from the place where they are living;

(g)to attend a funeral of—

(i)a member of the person's household,

(ii)a close family member, or

(iii)if no-one within sub-paragraphs (i) or (ii) are attending, a friend;

[F9(ga)to visit a burial ground or garden of remembrance, to pay respects to a member of the person’s household, a family member or friend;]

(h)to fulfil a legal obligation, including attending court or satisfying bail conditions, or to participate in legal proceedings;

(i)to access critical public services, including—

(i)childcare or educational facilities (where these are still available to a child in relation to whom that person is the parent, or has parental responsibility for, or care of the child);

(ii)social services;

(iii)services provided by the [F10Department for Work] and Pensions;

(iv)services provided to victims (such as victims of crime);

(j)in relation to children who do not live in the same household as their parents, or one of their parents, to continue existing arrangements for access to, and contact between, parents and children, and for the purposes of this paragraph, “parent” includes a person who is not a parent of the child, but who has parental responsibility for, or who has care of, the child;

(k)in the case of a minister of religion or worship leader, to go to their place of worship;

[F11(l)to undertake any of the following activities in connection with the purchase, sale, letting or rental of a residential property—

(i)visiting estate or letting agents, developer sales offices or show homes;

(ii)viewing residential properties to look for a property to buy or rent;

(iii)preparing a residential property to move in;

(iv)moving home;

(v)visiting a residential property to undertake any activities required for the rental or sale of that property;]

(m)to avoid injury or illness or to escape a risk of harm.

[F12(n)to use a waste or recycling centre.]

(3) For the purposes of paragraph (1), the place where a person is living includes the premises where they live together with any garden, yard, passage, stair, garage, outhouse or other appurtenance of such premises.

(4) Paragraph (1) does not apply to any person who is homeless.

[F13(5) For the purposes of paragraph (2)(ba), “public open space” includes—

(a)land laid out as a public garden or used for the purpose of recreation by members of the public;

(b)land which is “open country” as defined in section 59(2) of the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949, as read with section 16 of the Countryside Act 1968;

(c)land which is “access land” for the purposes of Part 1 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 (see section 1(1) of that Act).]
At my local station there are posters at each entrance with the following wording:

“Attention! Is your journey essential? If you are not a ‘Key Worker’ please leave the station area now.”

There is a line underneath that says:

“When exercising avoid places where the public congregate.”

The message from the TOCs/Network Rail seems pretty clear. I think it’s possibly a case of law and guidance being a bit different.
Yes I have seen that sign. It's been there since the first set of restrictions. It was a bit inaccurate then, and it's woefully inaccurate now.

Interesting. How does someone who isn't a key worker but can't work from home get to work then?
The sign is wrong and should be ignored; the updated legislation is quoted above.
 
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Huntergreed

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In Scotland it sounds like this is off the cards until at least August, and even then it’ll be very heavily discouraged.

I’m beginning to think the Scottish government aren’t considering the effect that this is having on mental health at all over trying to rid the virus. No journeys outside your local area by any mode until at least August means it’s impossible to make leisure trips, see family who live far away or do many things which could be considered “therapy”.

There’s many young people up here I know who’s mental health state was deteriorating by the length of restrictions already, and to hear that any opportunity to enjoy some time elsewhere could be almost 3 months away was very difficult indeed.

I’m in university and all of my friends live in different areas, so when the rules are “eased” in Scotland on Friday, I’ll not be able to see anyone because of the “you must stay local” rule. Is there really such a risk of overwhelming the NHS at this point that this is necessary for another 3 months?
 

yorksrob

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As the regulations are relaxed, the population will be permitted to see friends and family more, which is essential to people's longer term wellbeing. For many people who don't drive, the railway is the means to this end, which is why any ban on "non-essential" travel by the current definition, will not survive any such relaxation.

The Government and railway would be better off moving as soon as possible to practical advice about travelling at quieter times, observing social distancing and wearing a face covering, than persisting in nonsensical suggestions not to travel for one section of the population on the basis that it doesn't own a car.
 

Ianno87

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Gigs aren't really comparable in any shape or form.

Firstly, gigs happen at one moment, therefore it's impossible to mitigate risk by going at an "off-peak" time.

Secondly, as the regulations are relaxed, the population will be permitted to see friends and family more, which is essential to people's longer term wellbeing. For many people who don't drive, the railway is the means to this end, which is why any ban on "non-essential" travel by the current definition, will not survive any such relaxation.

The Government and railway would be better off moving as soon as possible to practical advice about travelling at quieter times, observing social distancing and wearing a face covering, than persisting in non-sensical suggestions not to travel for one section of the population on the basis that it doesn't own a car.
Or "get in your car and be more at risk of a road accident than a much safer train".
 

yorkie

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Can we please stay on topic.

Discussion of restrictions on visiting family is not for this thread, neither is talk of second spikes, or Dominic Cummings, or any other subject.

Also any information posted 'as fact' must be accurate and not misleading.
 

Huntergreed

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It does seem that the TOC’s themselves aren’t even sure what the restrictions are at the present moment.

Avanti Homepage in big red writing:

only Travel if your Journey is essential
on Crosscountry website:

A big thank you for not travelling, you have helped keep our team safe and allowed us to ensure key workers can get to where they need to be.
East Midlands Railway Website:

Customer notice: Trains still for essential travel only. We are operating fewer trains than in normal times and these are mainly for essential journeys by key workers.
the TOC’s seem to have decided that it’s essential only whether the government have decided on this or not
 

yorkie

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philosopher

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For certain things you can go a few days or even weeks without having to make a journey, but there will come a point where the journey becomes essential to maintain mental health or to avoid damaging existing relationships. For example a couple who live apart and neither have access to car may come to the conclusion that to maintain the relationship it is essential to see each other and therefore make a train journey.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Put it this way - awful lot of spare capacity - there were 2 passengers on the 07xx Northampton to Euston this morning , and the number of totally empty trains on Thameslink North is very noticeable.
 

MikeWM

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Well, I took a leisure journey today, on the railway, to the coast (Cromer and Sheringham). Barring a essential(-ish!) journey last Sunday to Cambridge, that’s the first journey I’ve made since March 23rd.

I took care to take off-peak, counter-commuter flow trains. I don’t think there were any more than 10 passengers on any of them. So (anti-)social distancing wasn’t hard to do.

I had no hassles, but then I didn’t really encounter any staff (or BTP) so I can’t say what would have happened if I had! Though the only major-ish station I had to traverse was Norwich, which didn’t seem much different from normal, just a lot quieter.

I agree - though IANAL! - that the regulations *in England* now allow travel for anything ‘reasonable’, including those things listed, which include going to a public open space (eg. a beach or a park), and don’t specify what methods of travel you can use.

However we are indeed *strongly advised* from using the railway for leisure trips, but as so often in all of this there is a divergence between the law and the advice.

In any event, I was reasonably satisfied that it was perfectly lawful to try and have a day out. And I did. And it did me rather a lot of good. And the railway got £20 from my ticket; I suspect soon it will need every bit of money it can get...
 

Ianigsy

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I'm a key worker and could in theory take advantage of that to take a couple of train rides just for a change of scenery, but it would sit uncomfortably on my conscience up to a point. There's also the issue that my employers are covering my travel costs so it would be dishonest of me to buy anything but the cheapest weekly ticket that did the job.

I could also claim the mental health status and could produce prescription medication to prove it, but again the idea of misusing a privilege sits uncomfortably.
 
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