Why does Pontefract have three stations?

[The Snap]

For a town with a population of 28,000 compared to the town where I live that has a similar population of 23,000, why does Pontefract have three stations and my town has none?!

My question is not so much regarding to the infrastructure at the two locations, more the reason that one town has been able to keep (and warrant) three operational stations while another of similar size has not managed to keep the only one it had!

The obvious direction for this thread is Dr. Beeching, but I was more interested in how three stations had managed to be retained and maintain decent passenger numbers within such close proximity in the modern era.

 

[brompton rail]

For a town with a population of 28,000 compared to the town where I live that has a similar population of 23,000, why does Pontefract have three stations and my town has none?!

My question is not so much regarding to the infrastructure at the two locations, more the reason that one town has been able to keep (and warrant) three operational stations while another of similar size has not managed to keep the only one it had!

The obvious direction for this thread is Dr. Beeching, but I was more interested in how three stations had managed to be retained and maintain decent passenger numbers within such close proximity in the modern era.

Two are on the same line - Wakefield to Knottingley - are at opposite ends of the town. Monkhill is also on the Leeds line ( via Castleford). Trains are hourly to each destination, though twice hourly to Knottingley.

Baghill only has two trains a day in each direction, off peak only Sheffield to York, and is even further from the town.

 

[matchmaker]

For a town with a population of 28,000 compared to the town where I live that has a similar population of 23,000, why does Pontefract have three stations and my town has none?!

My question is not so much regarding to the infrastructure at the two locations, more the reason that one town has been able to keep (and warrant) three operational stations while another of similar size has not managed to keep the only one it had!

The obvious direction for this thread is Dr. Beeching, but I was more interested in how three stations had managed to be retained and maintain decent passenger numbers within such close proximity in the modern era.

Tyndrum (population 167) has two stations...

 

[30907]

Tanshelf closed under Beeching and reopened under WYPTE, and is better sited for the town centre than Monkhill. However, Monkhill remained open post Beeching with the revised Leeds-Goole service, and can hardly be closed now. Baghill used to be on the NE-SW main line and get Intercity calls, but its local service, while better than now, wasn't brilliant.

BTW, is the OPs town on a passenger railway?

 

[Gareth_inBlyth]

Tanshelf closed under Beeching and reopened under WYPTE, and is better sited for the town centre than Monkhill. However, Monkhill remained open post Beeching with the revised Leeds-Goole service, and can hardly be closed now. Baghill used to be on the NE-SW main line and get Intercity calls, but its local service, while better than now, wasn't brilliant.

BTW, is the OPs town on a passenger railway?

It is a fair question though - it can seem as if whether you have a railway now was a lottery in the 1960s, with a huge impact on how we live as a result.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Worthing seems quite happy to have its three stations and like the case of Pontefract, all three of these also have the name of the town incorporated in them.

 

[Eshonbel]

Colchester has 4 stations: north, town, hythe and wivenhoe

 

[47802]

Number of stations well its dependent to a large degree on the geography of both Town/City and railway as well as what survived under beeching.

Ideally a single central station is desirable with other smaller stations to serve different parts of larger cities/Towns, but such an option isn't realistic or practical in many cases.

Lincoln was rationalised in to one station, as was Leeds but to do that in such as Bradford would be difficult and expensive.

In the case of Pontefract well Tanshelf could only be reopened as a result of reintroducing services to Wakefield, and Monkhill is likely to be the busiest having the Leeds and London Service.

Baghill is token service, which it seems to me you either bin or improve such services.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

To me it would make more sense for GC to serve the more centrally-located Tanshelf than Monkhill, but Monkhill does have connections to Leeds and Castleford, along with a car park.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Which urban area has the least stations per head of population?
Thorne has 2 on different lines.
Grimsby has 3 within town boundary on the same line.
Cromer has 2 and is small.
Ryde has a few. (Edited out Sandown as Lake is another town)
Edit: Sandown has two afterall.
It just looks like luck is why these places can have local rail journeys but larger places can't.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Ardrossan too.

...Sandown have a few.

Does it? Lake and Brading are separate places.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Which urban area has the least stations per head of population?

Probably a fair few areas with zero stations per head

But if you mean most stations per head, and if 'urban area' is taken to mean something reasonably large, can many places beat London? I don't have time to check exact figures, but a quick google suggests something like 330 national rail or Overground stations, 270 underground stations, and 40 or so dlr stations. There'll be some double -counting in all that but even so we must be looking at around 500 or so stations between 8.6 million population. Maybe one station per 15-20K people? I'm sure someone else can work out more accurate figures.

I'm sure a fair few small towns like Pontefract that happen to have 2-3 stations will beat that, but how many large towns?

 

[30907]

To me it would make more sense for GC to serve the more centrally-located Tanshelf than Monkhill, but Monkhill does have connections to Leeds and Castleford, along with a car park.

And long enough platforms?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

And long enough platforms?

Monkhill does have longer platforms, but they're still not quite long enough for a 180 are they? Of course, that's still an extra point in favour of Monkhill.

 

[Mark62]

Baghill used to a long distance cross country trains stop there, plus the summer Saturday specials before the station and line was deliberately run down to almost nothing. I also remember that the platforms were usually absolutely packed for these trains. People can't travel if there aren't any trains. Those people who packed the platforms didn't just go away. When the trains went they had to find alternatives. Progress?

 

[ironstone11]

Colchester has 4 stations: north, town, hythe and wivenhoe

Unlike North, Town and Hythe, I don't think most people would consider Wivenhoe to be part of Colchester.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I wonder what the reaction would be if you got on at Pontefract Baghill at 1010 and asked the guard for a day return to Pontefract Tanshelf?

Online journey planners give a journey time of 2 hours 36 minutes with changes at York, Leeds and Wakefield Kirkgate and brfares lists an Off Peak Day Return fare of £2.10!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I wonder what the reaction would be if you got on at Pontefract Baghill at 1010 and asked the guard for a day return to Pontefract Tanshelf?

Online journey planners give a journey time of 2 hours 36 minutes with changes at York, Leeds and Wakefield Kirkgate and brfares lists an Off Peak Day Return fare of £2.10!

Surely if it's a published fare, the conductor would be obliged to sell you a ticket? Of course the only reason anyone would buy such a ticket would be to get to York or Leeds cheaper. Would the barrier staff at Leeds let them through, though?

 

[DeeGee]

Grimsby has 3 within town boundary on the same line.
...
It just looks like luck is why these places can have local rail journeys but larger places can't.

Are there really that many journeys made between New Clee and Grimsby Town? It's not that much cheaper than the bus, and the buses are a lot more regular. I wouldn't exactly describe it as an opportunity for local rail journeys.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Are there really that many journeys made between New Clee and Grimsby Town? It's not that much cheaper than the bus, and the buses are a lot more regular. I wouldn't exactly describe it as an opportunity for local rail journeys.

No, not many use it at all, sometimes I see others there but other times I don't. And it costs £1.50 to Grimsby Town station I'm not sure of the bus price but it's either £1 or £1.50 between those two stations, so it's not cheaper.
It's most useful for trips to places not on a direct bus route like Habrough, Ulceby, Goxhill and New Holland. The station will get lighting in the future I'm told, that will make commuter use possible.
The reason I use it is the season ticket with plusbus was good value.

 

[hallamhash]

Dorking must a contender for most stations per person? It has three stations and only a population of 11,000

 

[CalderRail]

A much better question is why Maidstone has three stations.

 

[yorksrob]

A much better question is why Maidstone has three stations.

One line built by the South Eastern railway (Maidstone West) and the other built by the competing London Chatham and Dover Railway and its subsidiaries (Maidstone East). Barracks was designed later to be an easier interchange with East (and presumably to serve a Barracks).

 

[CalderRail]

One line built by the South Eastern railway (Maidstone West) and the other built by the competing London Chatham and Dover Railway and its subsidiaries (Maidstone East). Barracks was designed later to be an easier interchange with East (and presumably to serve a Barracks).

All of which is historical. There's literally no reason for all three to remain open now. Maidstone Barracks wasn't ever anywhere near an actual barracks, IIRC - it was just open to keep the troops away from civilians.

The sensible thing to do would be to move all rail provision in Maidstone to a single station, situated just north of the current Maidstone Barracks station where the line from Maidstone East crosses over the track.

This would allow you to have a single station with High Level & Low Level platforms, with the high level platforms on the embankment just east of the rail bridge and the platforms accessible from Buckland Hill Bridge, Waterside Gate & the existing Bridge towards Maidstone East.

You'd have to shift a couple of crossovers, but the cost saving of rationalising to 1 station (not to mention selling off the sites of Maidstone East & Maidstone West) would pay for itself in short order, with zero trains affected.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Maidstone rationalisation?
What journeys need an interchange between Barracks and East?
What sort of journeys would a single station interchange facilitate?
Medway Towns-Ashford/Folkestone (prob. quicker via Ebbsfleet, alternative route via Paddock Wood); Gravesend-Ashford/Folkestone (ditto); Dartford area-Ashford. Anything else?

Seems like a lot of expense for a less centrally-located station that would provide a marginal improvement (10-15 mins? it's 8 mins walk on Google maps) in interchange times.

 

[Oxfordblues]

A lot of towns and cities had several stations built by competing companies because there was no national strategic plan. In other countries such as Germany there was usually one central Hauptbahnhof in each city thanks to proper central planning.

In Preston, Lancashire, for example, there was originally a myriad of stations:
Fishergate (top) for the North Union Railway
Butler Street for the East Lancashire Railway
Deepdale for the Longridge line
Maudland (1) for Lancaster
Maudland (2) for Fleetwood
Fishergate (bottom) for Southport

Passenger had to walk across town to make through journeys. Then someone came up with a cunning plan: join all the lines up and build one interchange facility in the middle (as an enlargement of the North Union terminus). Thus Preston is now served by a single convenient facility.

By the time the railways reached Carlisle the lesson had been learnt and Citadel Station was built to serve all the radiating lines.

 

[yorksrob]

Maidstone rationalisation?
What journeys need an interchange between Barracks and East?
What sort of journeys would a single station interchange facilitate?
Medway Towns-Ashford/Folkestone (prob. quicker via Ebbsfleet, alternative route via Paddock Wood); Gravesend-Ashford/Folkestone (ditto); Dartford area-Ashford. Anything else?

Seems like a lot of expense for a less centrally-located station that would provide a marginal improvement (10-15 mins? it's 8 mins walk on Google maps) in interchange times.

Quite. For me, the key factor is that Maidstone East (which is the one I've had most cause to Use) is actually pretty handy for the town centre, whereas where the routes cross isn't. Wakefield suffers from a similar situation.

 

[A0wen]

Milton Keynes technically has 5 stations:

Wolverton, MKC, Bletchley, Fenny Stratford and Bow Brickhill.

And if EWR proposed one at Newton Longueville - that would probably be inside MK's boundary - therefore making 6.

 

[matchmaker]

Dorking must a contender for most stations per person? It has three stations and only a population of 11,000

Not even close...as I mentioned earlier, Tyndrum has two stations and a population of 167!

 

[eastwestdivide]

Getting back to Pontefract, I was on one of the two trains a day via Pontefract Baghill yesterday (the southbound afternoon train from York).
Grand total of 7 people, including a pushchair occupant, got off at Pontefract, and 2 people got on. I've seen double figures getting on northbound in the morning in the past, so there must be a few Pontefractians (? Pontefractions?) who use it for a quick trip to York shops.