Why white/silver liveries?

[L+Y]

Just a quick and simple question: what (if anything) is behind the roll out on seemingly the majority of TOCs of primarily white/silver liveries?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Easy to vinyl into something else?

 

[387star]

I'm hoping the 700 livery is brightened up before too long

The main answer is obvious: neutrality

the government is after a move away from corporate identities that are tied to a franchise holder's name and hard to eliminate come inevitable change

so yes Northern, Thameslink and Great Northern, Greater Anglia and C2C all employ white or grey liveries. Thankfully Southeastern is moving away from white on their 375s!

 

[Wivenswold]

GA's looks very smart with the addition of dark grey whereas TL/GN/C2C isn't really a livery, just some painted doors and a logo.

 

[TheEscapist_]

White just doesn't work unless it's cleaned a lot. Check VTEC HSTs the doors are horrid.


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[Islineclear3_1]

White just doesn't work unless it's cleaned a lot.

Yes, we had this on Southeastern's 375's and now some of the Class 700s are desperately in need for a heavy exterior wash (not that any seem to see a carriage washer...)

 

[Lrd]

White just doesn't work unless it's cleaned a lot. Check VTEC HSTs the doors are horrid.

Same for the Class 444s. Not sure if they've been cleaned/repainted recently but they were pretty grimy, especially near the roof.

 

[Philip]

The problem with white is that whilst it looks striking and attractive to begin with, it soon ends up like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/buddy...dei-yVrJ3q-sDVG3L-bbpYh8-8G5tma-ouQxr2-4Ad4Ro

 

[cjmillsnun]

Same for the Class 444s. Not sure if they've been cleaned/repainted recently but they were pretty grimy, especially near the roof.

To be fair to the 444s they have not been repainted in over 10 years.

 

[507021]

Easy to vinyl into something else?

I think it's this reason, because it will be a lot cheaper for future franchise operators to repaint the fleet into their own livery. I still think base white/grey liveries can be smart, but only if there's a decent amount of other colours to break it up. Northern's is pretty good, but Thameslink's very bland livery doesn't do anything for me at all unfortunately. Greater Anglia's isn't too bad, but it's not great, in my view.

The only exceptions to having a base white/grey livery at the moment seem to be GWR (green), Merseyrail (primarily yellow) and ScotRail (blue). It'll be interesting to see what happens with future franchises though, that's for sure. Personally, I'm all for having permanent brands and liveries as it'll be much cheaper and also very little will need changing when a franchise changes operators.

 

[najaB]

Just a quick and simple question: what (if anything) is behind the roll out on seemingly the majority of TOCs of primarily white/silver liveries?

For exactly the same reason that airlines are all tending to 'Eurowhite' with a splash of colour - it's easier to place the asset with a new lease if it doesn't have to be completely repainted.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interestingly Sleazy's new scheme reduces white and ups orange.

 

[Mikey C]

For exactly the same reason that airlines are all tending to 'Eurowhite' with a splash of colour - it's easier to place the asset with a new lease if it doesn't have to be completely repainted.

Isn't white popular as it reflects the sun more?

Taking BA, AF and LH for example, the vast majority of their fleets will serve its full life with the airline

 

[Mikey C]

The only exceptions to having a base white/grey livery at the moment seem to be GWR (green), Merseyrail (primarily yellow) and ScotRail (blue). It'll be interesting to see what happens with future franchises though, that's for sure. Personally, I'm all for having permanent brands and liveries as it'll be much cheaper and also very little will need changing when a franchise changes operators.

The Southern and London Midland liveries are fairly "non white" as well, while the Southeastern High Speed (and new general) livery is blue

 

[BestWestern]

The problem with white is that whilst it looks striking and attractive to begin with, it soon ends up like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/buddy...dei-yVrJ3q-sDVG3L-bbpYh8-8G5tma-ouQxr2-4Ad4Ro

Ugghh! Take it away... :cry:

 

[gimmea50anyday]

LM is based on the grey the 350s were delivered in...

 

[507021]

The Southern and London Midland liveries are fairly "non white" as well, while the Southeastern High Speed (and new general) livery is blue

I was more speaking in terms of recently renewed franchises (I should have made that clearer), although Merseyrail (last renewed in 2003) is an exception to this however because it's always had a predominantly yellow livery for some time now, and I don't think that will be changing.

 

[najaB]

Isn't white popular as it reflects the sun more?

Taking BA, AF and LH for example, the vast majority of their fleets will serve its full life with the airline

While the thermal effect is a factor, it's mainly about leases on aircraft.

AF's livery has been mostly white for a long time. BA's has progressively lost white and gained blue. Lufthansa replaced bare metal with grey over the years.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The only exceptions to having a base white/grey livery at the moment seem to be GWR (green), Merseyrail (primarily yellow) and ScotRail (blue).

We do have Southern green and GatEx red...

 

[507021]

We do have Southern green and GatEx red...

Very true, I forgot about those ones somehow. It'll be interesting to see if Southern goes the same way as Thameslink, though.

 

[59CosG95]

The Virgin Pendolino/Voyager fleet have a lot of silver on them too, and that part (not so much the red) picks up dirt quite a lot. I do wonder what the fleet will be repainted in come the new Widnes Alstom plant opening.

 

[Bletchleyite]

LM is based on the grey the 350s were delivered in...

Indeed, though the ones they fully did themselves are a lighter grey.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Virgin Pendolino/Voyager fleet have a lot of silver on them too, and that part (not so much the red) picks up dirt quite a lot. I do wonder what the fleet will be repainted in come the new Widnes Alstom plant opening.

You mean, presumably, the next franchise? I can't see VTWC repainting them in anything now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Very true, I forgot about those ones somehow. It'll be interesting to see if Southern goes the same way as Thameslink, though.

Southern green is of course white-based.

As for Northern, I still don't like it. White looks terrible with no window band. The 156 looks less awful than the 150, but only just. Add a charcoal or dark blue window band and it'll work.

 

[BMIFlyer]

You mean, presumably, the next franchise? I can't see VTWC repainting them in anything now.

The entire 390 fleet is actually due a repaint as part of the recurring maintenance program. They will be redone in the current colour scheme.

A little bird tells me that the next franchise has to design a new livery (as the DFT moves away from corporate liveries of the owner) and this will be vinyl applied in due course, like what TPE and Scotrail have done.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The entire 390 fleet is actually due a repaint as part of the recurring maintenance program. They will be redone in the current colour scheme.

A little bird tells me that the next franchise has to design a new livery (as the DFT moves away from corporate liveries of the owner) and this will be vinyl applied in due course, like what TPE and Scotrail have done.

I really don't get why this is being done (sensible though it is) by franchise, ScotRail aside, and there isn't a national InterCity and Regional livery being used instead, with smaller "operated by X" decals like with ScotRail.

 

[hotelmode]

While the thermal effect is a factor, it's mainly about leases on aircraft.

AF's livery has been mostly white for a long time. BA's has progressively lost white and gained blue. Lufthansa replaced bare metal with grey over the years.

It really isn't about leases. BAs aircraft (and I assume the other majors) are mostly mortgaged not leased so it's not even a factor. That's why they are generally kept until retirement.

No gain in blue either, it's the same basic livery since Utopia in the late 90s.

 

[BMIFlyer]

It would be a nice idea what you suggest, but then in an ideal world you'd need all the trains with the same branding on the exterior to have the same interior decor etc.

It's not going to happen. Scotrail is easy, as it's one giant operation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would be a nice idea what you suggest, but then in an ideal world you'd need all the trains with the same branding on the exterior to have the same interior decor etc.

Would you?

London buses all have standard exterior liveries but differing interiors based on operator. Indeed, the interior is just about the only way they can put their stamp on it.

 

[Mikey C]

Would you?

London buses all have standard exterior liveries but differing interiors based on operator. Indeed, the interior is just about the only way they can put their stamp on it.

Even there, there are moves towards standardisation

The Borismasters are all identical inside, and I believe the Enviro 400City has the same TfL Borismaster seat moquette