Wrexham redouble

[Cheshire Rover]

As the service via Bidston from Wrexham General to Lime Street takes 81 minutes, I cannot see any particular virtue in spending much money to provide a through service via the Halton Curve, which is likely to take, roundly, 65-70 minutes and give far less penetration of the Liverpool city centre. For what it may be worth, I feel that starting the proposed Chester-Manchester-West Yorkshire service at Wrexham would have far greater traffic potential.

Although the Halton Curve would give access to the airport via LSP.

 

[Philip C]

Although the Halton Curve would give access to the airport via LSP.

Unless my search of available information has misled me, even Chester is currently unable to warrant a direct bus/coach service to Liverpool Airport. Unless the Welsh Government feels it to be worth its while to subsidise, effectively a third route between Wrexham and Liverpool, I can see no prospect for a through service between the two via Runcorn.

Of course, when the Halton Curve is eventually fully reinstated there will, almost certainly, be a regular service over it and that will provide access to LSP and 'the airport' with this making some contribution to loadings.

 

[The Informer]

Will find out the exact detail next week!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I feel that starting the proposed Chester-Manchester-West Yorkshire service at Wrexham would have far greater traffic potential.

 

[absolutelymilk]

I saw today that the Balderton level crossing will be closed to road traffic from the 15-30th August. Is this the final level crossing that needs to be completed (I know Green Lane and Pulford crossings were already closed to traffic) or does Broad Oak still need work doing on it?

 

[fflint]

Taken from todays North Wales Coast Railway news:-

http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nw1508b.htm

Wrexham-Chester re-doubling date announced

Extract from a Network Rail notice of 28 July:


NR/LNW/084 – WREXHAM TO CHESTER RE-DOUBLING
OPERATIVE FROM MONDAY 16 NOVEMBER 2015
From the above date, the single line between Wrexham North Junction and Saltney Junction, controlled from Chester PSB, will be redoubled between a new junction near Rossett Level Crossing and Saltney Junction. Permissible line speeds will be changed and additional signalling provided in order to increase capacity and reduce journey times.

 

[The Planner]

They got hold of a copy of the Yellow Peril then.

 

[TDK]

They got hold of a copy of the Yellow Peril then.

It will certainly be a toe curler in leaf fall with the new stop signal protecting the new Rossett Junction on the down is at danger even with the distance from the distant signal and 60mph line speed. No trees or broad leaf foliage has yet been trimmed or removed throughout the line from Wrexham North Junction od Rossett Junction.

Yellow Peril? Not seen nowt yet. I should imagine it will need a video at the minimum and a days training before any driver drives the new layout.

To add 16th November bang in the middle of leaf fall season - great

 

[NI 271]

It will certainly be a toe curler in leaf fall with the new stop signal protecting the new Rossett Junction on the down is at danger even with the distance from the distant signal and 60mph line speed. No trees or broad leaf foliage has yet been trimmed or removed throughout the line from Wrexham North Junction od Rossett Junction.

Yellow Peril? Not seen nowt yet. I should imagine it will need a video at the minimum and a days training before any driver drives the new layout.

To add 16th November bang in the middle of leaf fall season - great

I just hope the signallers have got the wit to ensure the Chirk log trains get a clear run from at least Green Lane during leaf-fall, or it'll be game over for the single line for the remainder of those nights...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Passing through today on the to-be Down line, work was ongoing at various places.
There was a gap in the "Up" line at Broad Oak, and I noticed that they have not yet relaid the jointed track south to Rossett, though new rail was lying ready in the cess.
The jointed section of the "Down" line north of Balderton is still there, but I didn't see if new rail was waiting to go in.
Still plenty to do.

Do we think the Wrexham-Shrewsbury (or is it Chirk-Shrewsbury?) line speed increase will be applied at the same time in November?

 

[The Informer]

Do we think the Wrexham-Shrewsbury (or is it Chirk-Shrewsbury?) line speed increase will be applied at the same time in November?

Not a chance!

Wont make much difference anyway.

 

[Sox]

Not a chance!

Wont make much difference anyway.

Not very informative.

 

[The Planner]

Not sure what else he could say to be fair...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Not sure what else he could say to be fair...

At some level they are the same project (North-south journey time improvements).
So you might expect some coordination...

 

[The Informer]

Maybe i should change my name then....

 

[TDK]

Managed to get some more information on this project. The line speed enhancement between Wrexham North Junction and Saltney is as follows:-

60mph from Wrexham North Junction to Rossett - 90mph from Rossett to Balderton - 60mph from Balderton to Saltney and 50mph over Saltney.

From Saltney to Wrexham North Junction:-

Saltney to Rossett 90mph - Rossett to Wrexham North Junction 60mph - 50mph.

The jointed track from Balderton to Green Lane crossing is remaining as there is not enough money to replace it hence the 60mph from Balderton to Saltney

The enhanced speeds from Gobowen to Shrewsbury have not been passed as the line is not in a good enough condition for the speed increase, also NR will have more in maintenance costs with a 90mph run so are not too excited in the increase so therefore as far as I have been informed the increase will not go ahead.

The completion date for the redouble is February next year supposedly unless the workforce can get a lengthy block to complete the works quicker.

 

[The Planner]

Was always going to be an easy one to cull during the current pruning of NR jobs.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Managed to get some more information on this project. The line speed enhancement between Wrexham North Junction and Saltney is as follows:-

So £45 million wasn't enough?
The usual Network Rail overrun/under-delivery/de-spec (the second on this project).
The WG won't be impressed, as the journey time reductions won't be achieved.
The 90mph northbound covers all of 3 miles, southbound 6 miles.
It would be interesting to know if NR kept the WG informed about the impact of this, or just spent the money and then gave up.
One might speculate that the money went on additional signalling for the level crossings instead of the track.

The Gobowen-Shrewsbury work is similarly annoying.
NR has spent significant WG funds relaying old track and putting in new signals recently, only to find the basic track is unsuitable?

Merlodlliw would even now have been writing to his AM and the press on both of these!

 

[Gareth Marston]

So £45 million wasn't enough?
The usual Network Rail overrun/under-delivery/de-spec (the second on this project).
The WG won't be impressed, as the journey time reductions won't be achieved.
The 90mph northbound covers all of 3 miles, southbound 6 miles.
It would be interesting to know if NR kept the WG informed about the impact of this, or just spent the money and then gave up.
One might speculate that the money went on additional signalling for the level crossings instead of the track.

The Gobowen-Shrewsbury work is similarly annoying.
NR has spent significant WG funds relaying old track and putting in new signals recently, only to find the basic track is unsuitable?

Merlodlliw would even now have been writing to his AM and the press on both of these!

I'm sure Bob would have been loading the bullets. For the awkward questions.

 

[The Informer]

This Gobowen - Shrewsbury fiasco has been going on since it started, the whole project has been passed around from pillar to post with no real leadership or managment. Every other week/month IP unearthed another obstacle that had not been budgeted or accounted for, the project was repeatedly scaled back, it's laughable.
They've already spent millions or blown the budget upgrading the UWC, tamping and re-aligning curves, dropping thousands of tons of ballast, re-locating treadle strike in points and erecting speed / whistle boards.
Will the project be totally shelved? I don't know, i think it's too far in to pull the plug but what i do know is someone has got some serious explaining to do!

 

[TDK]

This Gobowen - Shrewsbury fiasco has been going on since it started, the whole project has been passed around from pillar to post with no real leadership or managment. Every other week/month IP unearthed another obstacle that had not been budgeted or accounted for, the project was repeatedly scaled back, it's laughable.
They've already spent millions or blown the budget upgrading the UWC, tamping and re-aligning curves, dropping thousands of tons of ballast, re-locating treadle strike in points and erecting speed / whistle boards.
Will the project be totally shelved? I don't know, i think it's too far in to pull the plug but what i do know is someone has got some serious explaining to do!

Indeed they have, now if VT decided to run from Shrewsbury to Chester via Wrexham then maybe, just maybe the line speed would be increased over night as was the Crewe to Stafford slow line from 75mph to 100mph. I have been told that the line would never pass for 90mph in it's current state due to poor drainage, subsidence from underground salt packets and other things. As for the redouble how on Earth can they merit leaving a section of poor quality jointed track between Balderton and Green lane beats me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Gobowen-Shrewsbury work is similarly annoying.
NR has spent significant WG funds relaying old track and putting in new signals recently, only to find the basic track is unsuitable?

Merlodlliw would even now have been writing to his AM and the press on both of these!

As far as I am aware there have not been any new signals between Gobowen and Shrewsbury, you only have Gobowens section signal then CJ200R/200 in the Baschurch area with the next signal after that being CJ1R a fixed semaphore distant.

In the other direction you have CJ section signal then CJ201R/201 and the next signal being Gobowens distant signal.

This has been like this from before 2000

The only new addition was the installation of a new banner repeater in the down direction approaching Gobowens 2nd home

 

[The Informer]

200 & 201 repeater signals have had new location bases approx 600yds further back from where they are now. They are just awaiting new signal posts and heads.

 

[The Planner]

Indeed they have, now if VT decided to run from Shrewsbury to Chester via Wrexham then maybe, just maybe the line speed would be increased over night as was the Crewe to Stafford slow line from 75mph to 100mph.

You really need to leave the Virgin bit alone, they wouldn't make the slightest iota of difference. The main reason for increasing the speeds on the slows between Crewe to Stafford was enable reduced impact on engineering works diversions and for Norton Bridge. If it was so Virgin centric, why weren't they made 125EPS? We refused to make it 110mph.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

As far as I am aware there have not been any new signals between Gobowen and Shrewsbury, you only have Gobowens section signal then CJ200R/200 in the Baschurch area with the next signal after that being CJ1R a fixed semaphore distant.
In the other direction you have CJ section signal then CJ201R/201 and the next signal being Gobowens distant signal.
This has been like this from before 2000
The only new addition was the installation of a new banner repeater in the down direction approaching Gobowens 2nd home

I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think the signalling kit was "modernised" in the last decade. Maybe it was for the level crossings.
It was roughly at the time the Shrewsbury-Wolverhampton line was "upgraded" (another 70mph section which never got to 90mph as intended).

 

[The Planner]

Oxley Shrewsbury was 2006. 90mph was only recently put back on the shelf due to the costs of doing it (track, earthworks, structures) and the relatively low benefits that come out the other end.

 

[TDK]

200 & 201 repeater signals have had new location bases approx 600yds further back from where they are now. They are just awaiting new signal posts and heads.

I saw that yesterday, however this is just replacing the current signals for signal sighting/braking distance for 90mph is it not? It will not improve capacity or have I missed something!

 

[absolutelymilk]

Wrexham-Chester re-doubling date announced

Extract from a Network Rail notice of 28 July:

NR/LNW/084 – WREXHAM TO CHESTER RE-DOUBLING
OPERATIVE FROM MONDAY 16 NOVEMBER 2015
From the above date, the single line between Wrexham North Junction and Saltney Junction, controlled from Chester PSB, will be redoubled between a new junction near Rossett Level Crossing and Saltney Junction. Permissible line speeds will be changed and additional signalling provided in order to increase capacity and reduce journey times.

How does this square with a completion date of Feb 2016? Or am I misunderstanding it and that is when serious work will start (as obviously there has been work done on it already)

 

[The Informer]

I saw that yesterday, however this is just replacing the current signals for signal sighting/braking distance for 90mph is it not? It will not improve capacity or have I missed something!

Don't think you've missed anything but let's be honest it certainly isn't for sighting as the existing ones can be spotted a good way in advance! It has to be for braking distances.

 

[TDK]

Don't think you've missed anything but let's be honest it certainly isn't for sighting as the existing ones can be spotted a good way in advance! It has to be for braking distances.

Yes that is true you have at least a mile sighting distance, if the speed is increasing will it be MU only or will the freight/loco & stock be increased to 75mph max or remain at 60mph?

 

[Rydon]

I'm sure Bob would have been loading the bullets. For the awkward questions.

Whats the latest on the completion of this. I see the section Chester-Wrexham is closed next week for level crossing work but I hear its completion going to seriously overrun. Any one else heard that?

 

[The Planner]

The date has been put back again, yes.