WSMR: One year on

[Ivo]

As you may be aware, today, January 28th, is the first anniversary of the loss of the direct service between Wrexham/Shrewsbury/Telford and London Marylebone offered by Wrexham & Shropshire.

What thoughts do you all have on them now? Are we still as pleased with their levels of customer service, their prices, their trains, their... everything? Is there anything we think they could have done better? What has the industry learned from them? Was their closure perhaps a little premature?

Having had one year to reflect, discuss! I myself never treavelled with them - but finally got a chance on their former 67 rakes a couple of weeks ago, and it was worth the wait (by "wait" I also mean it running 21 minutes late ).

Closure thread

 

[Eagle]

I remember I saw the last service passing through Earlsdon completely by chance as I was popping out to the grocery shop.

 

[trentside]

I myself never treavelled with them - but finally got a chance on their former 67 rakes a couple of weeks ago, and it was worth the wait (by wait I also mean it running 21 minutes ).

Likewise, I never had a chance to travel with them. I'd booked to travel with them a couple of days after the company closed - in fact I booked the day before the closure was announced. I have since travelled on their stock with Chiltern and found it to be very pleasant.

They sounded like a good operator, and clearly had very dedicated staff - I hope they have all now managed to find alternative employment.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

In my eyes it was always destined to fail. The lack of open calls at well-connected West Midlands stations and the slow paths, coupled with cheap fares, First Class service and stock refurbishments. I doubt money from Wrexham, Shrewsbury, Telford and Tame Bridge would ever have been enough to keep this alive. With the new owners they may have been in with a chance after Moderation of Competition ended, but from what I can see it was losing bucketfuls of money each time it ran a train.

 

[MK Tom]

Chiltern have in many regards interpreted the heart and soul of what WSMR was, not to mention their stock of course. The biggest loss to me other than the jobs of anyone who didn't find a position at Chiltern or elsewhere was Telford losing its link to London, which was very beneficial to its economic growth and regeneration. I hope one day somebody has the sense to reintroduce a direct London service to Telford and Shrewsbury, regardless of what London terminal it runs to.

As Matt says the service was far too slow and it was faster to change at Wolverhampton. To my mind an extension of the Wolverhampton-Euston service does seem the best way to link Telford and beyond to London.

 

[150222]

Chiltern have in many regards interpreted the heart and soul of what WSMR was, not to mention their stock of course. The biggest loss to me other than the jobs of anyone who didn't find a position at Chiltern or elsewhere was Telford losing its link to London, which was very beneficial to its economic growth and regeneration. I hope one day somebody has the sense to reintroduce a direct London service to Telford and Shrewsbury, regardless of what London terminal it runs to.

As Matt says the service was far too slow and it was faster to change at Wolverhampton. To my mind an extension of the Wolverhampton-Euston service does seem the best way to link Telford and beyond to London.

Unfortunately that would require a 57 drag (not practical) or a voyager (inadequate for Wolvo to London). Not to mention it would require at least one extra pendo/vomiter.

 

[MK Tom]

Unfortunately that would require a 57 drag (not practical) or a voyager (inadequate for Wolvo to London). Not to mention it would require at least one extra pendo/vomiter.

Or electrify to Shewsbury, enabling the LM services to go electric too. That's obviously a long-term thing, what's more immediately realistic is one or two extended WCML services a day doing something like Euston-MKC-Coventry-International-New Street-Sandwell-Wolverhampton-Telford-Shrewsbury, maybe running on to Gobowen and Wrexham if it works from a timetabling POV.

 

[bnm]

I don't particularly miss the journey opportunites WSMR afforded me, but I sure do miss the excellent food and drink provided in 1st Class.

I mean. A decent Chablis? Fresh cream? On a train? In the UK? Did I dream it?

 

[anthony263]

I was certainly lucky to travel with WSMR about a month before it closed.

I travelled on on the 07:20 train up to Wrexham from Cardiff before doing some exploring and making my way back to the station to get the 11:27 departure to London Marylebone.

The cottage pie I had was lovely and I had all the coffee I could drink.

Shame they have gone although it was loosinga lot of money, then again maybe they could have waited til the end of this year and isnt grand central supposed to be loosing far more money that WSMR was?

 

[Badger]

Travelled once, Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton. Had the benefit of sitting in declassified 1st class for the first time - very pleasant journey if a little short. Wish I'd had chance to go further. But they never ran enough, even that time was just blind luck that it happened to be in.

 

[tbtc]

Chiltern have in many regards interpreted the heart and soul of what WSMR was, not to mention their stock of course. The biggest loss to me other than the jobs of anyone who didn't find a position at Chiltern or elsewhere was Telford losing its link to London, which was very beneficial to its economic growth and regeneration. I hope one day somebody has the sense to reintroduce a direct London service to Telford and Shrewsbury, regardless of what London terminal it runs to

People always say this about Open Access; your post suggests that there was definite evidence of Telford gaining investment/jobs/money because of WSMR.

I think that its significant that no TOC has stepped into the "gap" left by WSMR, the service to Wrexham/ Shrewsbury/ Telford from ATW/ LM/ Virgin hasn't changed as a result. Whereas, I think that if Hull Trains (another Open Access operator) disappeared overnight then you'd see other TOCs altering their services to cater to those passengers.

 

[CosherB]

I used them twice between Marylebone and Shrewsbury when I had time to spare returning from London to Cheshire (linking to ATW for the last leg) having used a fast Virgin Pendo for the outbound journey.

1st class both times; superb on board service, more like a friendly heritage line than a national carrier. I was very sorry when they folded. The trains were comfortable, especially when they got their own refurbished Mk3s, and the staff were just superb.

I miss them, though they were probably always operating on an economical knife-edge.

 

[martinsh]

Unfortunately that would require a 57 drag (not practical) or a voyager (inadequate for Wolvo to London). Not to mention it would require at least one extra pendo/vomiter.

Why is a 57 drag not practical ? Is is something to do with clearances ?

 

[Ivo]

Apparently someone forgot to close the website!

It still says the following:

It is with great regret that we announce that Wrexham & Shropshire will stop operating trains on Friday 28th January

 

[All Line Rover]

Unfortunately that would require a 57 drag (not practical) or a voyager (inadequate for Wolvo to London). Not to mention it would require at least one extra pendo/vomiter.

I don't see your point? Virgin already run Voyager's on selected London to Wolverhampton services - it wouldn't be that much of a bind to extend some to Shrewsbury.

 

[Eagle]

I don't see your point? Virgin already run Voyager's on selected London to Wolverhampton services - it wouldn't be that much of a bind to extend some to Shrewsbury.

And swap some double Voyagers on Birmingham–Scotland diagrams with Pendolinos on Wolverhampton diagrams and you've got a couple more...

 

[mralexn]

Well XC manage to run a 4 car vomiter from Aberdeen to Penzance Through New street and Bristol at rush hour so..

 

[merlodlliw]

A legacy of W/S is we have a beautiful station at Wrexham now, prior to them arriving the station was in a state of decay and an embarrassment.

having followed W/S planning for start up, two years before trains ran,the business plan showed profit after three years. The recession was not foreseen nor the increase in the price of fuel,has one of the committee set up to obtain Euro Funding for refurbishment of the two bays at the station, the fight was well worth it.
The current once a day VT up/down Wrexham to London would never have occurred without W/S presence.

Well missed.

Bob

 

[tbtc]

A legacy of W/S is we have a beautiful station at Wrexham now, prior to them arriving the station was in a state of decay and an embarrassment

Wasn't that European money, Bob?

 

[lm321412]

Well XC manage to run a 4 car vomiter from Aberdeen to Penzance Through New street and Bristol at rush hour so..

Define what "Rush Hour" is on Cross Country Trains!

 

[150222]

I don't see your point? Virgin already run Voyager's on selected London to Wolverhampton services - it wouldn't be that much of a bind to extend some to Shrewsbury.

Oh, sorry. I thought they were all pendolino's. In that case the extention idea is perfectly plausable.

 

[steve099]

As a resident of Shrewsbury, what continues to ire me about their closure was how sudden it was. I believe it was closed within about two days. In fact, I remember I was about to purchase a first class single for £36.00 to shuttle a foreign friend up from London in comfort and with ease.

I probably used Wrexham & Shropshire about 15-20 times over 3 years. But I must have used Virgin another 30-40 times over that same period. Why? I often bought flexible tickets with Virgin @ £31.00 (2010 Young Person rates) to take any train leaving Euston every 20 minutes and every half hour from the West Midlands. W&S was £26.40 for the flexibility of only five, then four trains a day.

I was also delayed enough times with Wrexham & Shropshire that I decided to use Virgin after I had moved out of London and commuted for my exams. I imagine any business scorned by a lengthy delay with them may have moved services, too.

Another reason why I may have chosen Virgin more for my journeys (putting aside length for one moment) was that to spend 3 hours plus in such god-awful uncomfortable seats in Standard Class was intolerable. The fixed armrests were a personal bain. Only the extra-legroom seats at the end offered any sort of comfort. First Class was beautifully comfortable also.

Perhaps they should have had an exclusively First Class service to truly offer something different to Virgin, given that their First Class prices were more achievable than the competition's. (And you can't eat a three-course lunch while driving.)

 

[SS4]

As a resident of Shrewsbury, what continues to ire me about their closure was how sudden it was. I believe it was closed within about two days. In fact, I remember I was about to purchase a first class single for £36.00 to shuttle a foreign friend up from London in comfort and with ease.

I probably used Wrexham & Shropshire about 15-20 times over 3 years. But I must have used Virgin another 30-40 times over that same period. Why? I often bought flexible tickets with Virgin @ £31.00 (2010 Young Person rates) to take any train leaving Euston every 20 minutes and every half hour from the West Midlands. W&S was £26.40 for the flexibility of only five, then four trains a day.

I was also delayed enough times with Wrexham & Shropshire that I decided to use Virgin after I had moved out of London and commuted for my exams. I imagine any business scorned by a lengthy delay with them may have moved services, too.

Another reason why I may have chosen Virgin more for my journeys (putting aside length for one moment) was that to spend 3 hours plus in such god-awful uncomfortable seats in Standard Class was intolerable. The fixed armrests were a personal bain. Only the extra-legroom seats at the end offered any sort of comfort. First Class was beautifully comfortable also.

Perhaps they should have had an exclusively First Class service to truly offer something different to Virgin, given that their First Class prices were more achievable than the competition's. (And you can't eat a three-course lunch while driving.)

That's quite an interesting testimony given the praise on this forum.

The fact remained that they simply didn't have the money to operate. Why is probably speculation but I suspect that it didn't really have a market combined with moderation of competition in the west midlands.
I never got to travel on them largely because iirc the closest they came to Brum was Tame Bridge Parkway. Additionally Virgin had good first advances and LM were incredibly cheap for going off peak

 

[merlodlliw]

Wasn't that European money, Bob?

It was as you state,although I called it Euro money.

This was at the time Wrexham was Objective three & European money could not be brought down for employment in objective three areas. So to get the bays refurbished with permission from WEFO (Welsh European Funding Office) £1M for refurbishment
was paid direct to Network Rail by WG who subcontracted the job out, this was a first,whereas in the case of Ebbw Vale (objective one) the £millions were paid to the County Council for the Cardiff/Ebbw passenger line.

The money for the bays at Wrexham was for use by all TOCS & ATW & VT use them when required.
The then WAG Minister under intense pressure from A.Ms & M,Ps all Political Parties,County Councils,Companies,Voluntary Sector, to name a few found the
£1million as everyone was pointing at the £40millions for Ebbw Vales line.


All in the past now, I passed Wrexham General around noon today,it is in excellent shape.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I made the effort to drive to Wrexham or Chirk on, I think, five occasions to travel to London with WSMR...each time was enjoyable, such friendly staff, comfortable seats and as another poster has already suggested it had the sort of feel of a heritage line....and I'm sure that one of the reasons for that was the gentle speed (as my partner said once when she accompanied me - 'it's all very well but we can be in London iin only 3 and a bit hours from Bangor'
...but of course the WSMR was not run for people like me who wanted to try something different, and if the people in it's real catchment area would not use it then it was going to fail. Was it the recession? - or journey time? I do think that lessons learned from WSMR have been taken on board by Chiltern tho'....

 

[Squaddie]

...but of course the WSMR was not run for people like me who wanted to try something different, and if the people in it's real catchment area would not use it then it was going to fail. Was it the recession? - or journey time?

I don't think it was the recession, as passenger numbers on other routes and TOCs have held up well.

As far as I am concerned, it was entirely due to the journey times. No matter how comfortable the train, it is no fun trundling through the backwaters of the Midlands at 40mph when all you want to do is get to your destination. And the frequency of the engineering works made the problem even worse. I remember the last time I travelled with WSMR: a five hour journey going out (to Wrexham), in which it took us an hour just to get to Wembley, and a seemingly endless, thoroughly miserable, stop-start journey on the way back. All I could think was that I could have been home in bed by now if I'd taken Virgin - and, after that trip, I chose Virgin every time despite their inferior product.

Were the route a busier one then WSMR may have overcome its problems and become a successful operator. But Wrexham is, at best, a marginal market and there is simply not the demand to support regular through trains to London.

 

[paul1609]

I don't think it was the recession either, an open access operator can only exist if they can conduct an ORCATs raid on a premium fares main line. If the ORCATs agreements were changed so that Grand Central and Hull didn't receive a contribution from the any permitted tickets on the East Coast Main Line they would cease operations within a few days. The fares income from the sub marginal markets that they are their alledged reason for existence wouldn't be able to support the companies considerable head office and safety case costs.
ironically competition on the London to West midlands market from Chiltern and London Midland means that off peak fares on this route are much lower per mile than on the East Coast Route. I doubt that WSMR would have survived even with a ORCATs raid on Wolverhampton and Birmingham.

 

[W-on-Sea]

The (un)scenic, non-stop (apart from at one station less than ideally located for pretty much any centre of population nearby - if we exclude the train routed via New Street that would spend some time there awaiting a green light, but which, of course, wasn't permitted to let passengers on or off) tour around the West Midlands conurbation was obviously the big problem.

Everything else WMSR did, they did extraordinarily well, and with great style. But the conditions associated with Virgin's Moderation of Competition Clause meant that any lasting commercial success was going to be extremely hard to come by.

 

[SprinterMan]

Wrexham & Shropshire was a lovely idea, but was destined to fail due to long journey times and an inability to serve Birmingham due to Virgin's (unfair)moderation of competition cause. Ultimately though, WSMR's loss was a neccessary one, as now Chiltern operates their stock on a route with much higher usage and has enabled them to operate one of the best services in the country.

Virgin sort of shot themselves in the foot. Had they not started running to Wrexham, WSMR may have not gone out of buisness, and if they hadn't Chiltern wouldn't have gotten their stock and Virgin would still have the best and most comfortable London-Birmingham route, but as it happens, Chiltern's "Silver Mainline" trains are now stealing passengers from Virgin left right and centre. It is sort of a nice tribute to WSMR that their trains are being used to compete with a comapny that invaded their market and ultimately played a part in their downfall.

A legacy of the WSMR service are that Tame Bridge Parkway and Cosford are still shown in national rail timetable no. 75, despite no trains stopping there (Cosford will have a sunday service when it re-opens in this timetable).
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse documents/eNRT/Dec11/timetables/Table75.pdf

 

[tbtc]

Everything else WMSR did, they did extraordinarily well, and with great style. But the conditions associated with Virgin's Moderation of Competition Clause meant that any lasting commercial success was going to be extremely hard to come by.

Virgin always get the blame for the Moderation Of Competition stuff, which wasn't introduced by Virgin...

People rightly say that WSMR provided great customer service. But at the time they ceased operations they had over fifty staff and only ran three return journeys a day - if Northern/NXEA/ ATW (etc) had those passenger/staff ratios then customer service there would be equally good.