Services advertised with a pretend destination

[Dunderhead]

The ones I am most familiar with are FCC's Cambridge stoppers which are advertised as Foxton from King's Cross and Finsbury Park from Cambridge (the latter seems odd to me as surely Potters Bar is the farthest destination that can't be reached on faster trains), but what other examples are out there?

I am interested in particular in SWT's Poole stoppers. I passed through Christchurch station recently and saw a departure to Farnborough advertised on the up platform - is that how the Poole stoppers are advertised?

 

[Donny Dave]

It's so passengers don't get confused so easily between the fast and all shack services.

It's the same for the Harrogate loop services from Leeds and York. Rather than advertise it as a Leeds service from York, it's shown as a Burley Park service, so people who want to get to Leeds don't accidentally catch it and then spend an age trundling around instead of catching a TPE or XC service that takes around 25 minutes.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Oxford-Paddington stoppers are advertised at Oxford as being Ealing Broadway services.

As David notes, it is to get travellers going all the way down the line to get the faster services.

 

[Jordy]

Works the other way round too - Paddington to Oxford stoppers are advertised as Didcot Parkway or Radley, depending on what the last stop before Oxford is.

 

[Waddon]

Was on an unusual one last night... the shuttles from Ascot to Guildford via Aldershot are all Destination Guildford, except an early evening one which is marked on the timetable and at stations as destination Aldershot, change there for Guildford

In fact the train still goes through to Guildford, it says 'all change, this train terminates here' when you get to Aldershot, but those in the know stay on board because it departs a few minutes later to Guildford as normal.

 

[34D]

It's so passengers don't get confused so easily between the fast and all shack services.

It's the same for the Harrogate loop services from Leeds and York. Rather than advertise it as a Leeds service from York, it's shown as a Burley Park service, so people who want to get to Leeds don't accidentally catch it and then spend an age trundling around instead of catching a TPE or XC service that takes around 25 minutes.

And on the Leeds boards its Poppleton.

Agree that the Cambridge-KX stopper ought to be announced at Cambridge as Potters Bar.

 

[Failed Unit]

The local service to Doncaster from Peterborough always used to be shown as Gainsborough, not sure if it still is or what they display the services going to Newark Northgate (via Lincoln)

At Doncaster it can be confusing as both Northern an EMT services are displayed as Lincoln, where the Northern one should maybe be Worksop! I suspect you can't use a Doncaster - Lincoln ticket on the Northern service!

 

[SGS]

Loop services do a bit of this too. I recall in the last days of the slammers on SWT I did the whole Kingston loop on a CEP+CIG, and train started out shown on the platforms as destination 'Kingston', by Richmond it was showing as 'Wimbledon', and by Kingston it was going to 'London Waterloo'. I imagine the Slade Green and Hounslow loop services do something similar.

 

[dcd]

The Salisbury - Romsey service that is in the form of a 6 i.e. a straight with a circle at the end, at Romsey advertises the clockwise service as going to St Denys instead of Salisbury as it takes 50 minutes longer than direct as it does the loop first and the other stops before reaching Romsey again are reached quicker going the opposite way round. The anti-clockwise is advertised as Chandler"s Ford rather than it's actual destination which is Romsey which you are already at.

 

[MCR247]

I suspect you can't use a Doncaster - Lincoln ticket on the Northern service!

Direct services are always valid

 

[dcd]

I am interested in particular in SWT's Poole stoppers. I passed through Christchurch station recently and saw a departure to Farnborough advertised on the up platform - is that how the Poole stoppers are advertised?

I think this is advertised as Farnborough up until Southampton Airport Parkway as you would do better for stations after Farnborough by using the following fast service which passes the slow one whilst it is calling at Eastleigh.

 

[Failed Unit]

Direct services are always valid

I have been tempted - but never had the guts to do it. Normally because it is a pacer on the route "But this train is going to Lincoln and it is direct - I just wanted to see Sheffield!"

 

[Class377/5]

The ones I am most familiar with are FCC's Cambridge stoppers which are advertised as Foxton from King's Cross and Finsbury Park from Cambridge (the latter seems odd to me as surely Potters Bar is the farthest destination that can't be reached on faster trains), but what other examples are out there?

The system was set up to provide a false destination that isn't too misleading. Soluation decided upon was one stop before final destination, hence Finsbury Park. They seem odd as they are really for regulars rather than less frequent travellers.

 

[MarkyMarkD]

Isn't it better to do what Southeastern do at Victoria, which is to have a separate display showing "fastest train to ..." followed by a list of sensible main destinations?

This helps to stop passengers catching slow, stopping, trains when there is a faster alternative.

 

[Failed Unit]

Isn't it better to do what Southeastern do at Victoria, which is to have a separate display showing "fastest train to ..." followed by a list of sensible main destinations?

This helps to stop passengers catching slow, stopping, trains when there is a faster alternative.

Speaking of Clapham Junction, what do "non-gatwick express" services at Gatwick Airport state? Victoria or Clapham Junction?

 

[MCR247]

Their actual destination, so Victoria or London Bridge

 

[Tomnick]

I have been tempted - but never had the guts to do it. Normally because it is a pacer on the route "But this train is going to Lincoln and it is direct - I just wanted to see Sheffield!"

The NRES journey planner shows that the quickest journey is sometimes on the direct service via Sheffield! One example departs Donny at 1504 - there's then nothing until 1603 or 1624 (the former being via Sheffield again, the latter forming a (poor) connection into that train at Retford!). It does highlight the poor connections that Lincoln has to the ECML heading north - a combination of very few trains to Doncaster via the 'Joint', and irregular connections at Retford. NRES even offers Barnetby as the quickest route in some cases!

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Merseyrail's Wirral Line trains all return to their destination as a round trip (Chester to Chester - via Liverpool), but will display Liverpool Central as the destination until the train reaches James Street (the last station to be served twice)

 

[ushawk]

The SWT service to Weybridge via Hounslow is advertised as Addlestone on the Waterloo boards and the FGW stoppers from Paddington to Reading are shown at PAD as terminating at Twyford.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Speaking of Clapham Junction, what do "non-gatwick express" services at Gatwick Airport state? Victoria or Clapham Junction?

Bedford:roll:

 

[Failed Unit]

Bedford:roll:

Walked into that - should have said non-gatwick express Southern services...

 

[34D]

Direct services are always valid

Two pedantic points (sorry)
-first point - you mean to say 'through trains' not 'direct' in your sentance above. A direct train (in one interpretation) is one that goes by the most direct route - however one of our senior fares & routeing members john @ home will probably appear now and ask me to define 'route direct' for Headingley to Scarborough, which of course I cannot do!

-second point - your assertion above (with whatever definition of 'direct' you may want to use) is only valid if the ticket is any permitted. 'Route anytown' or 'route not ratesville' would affect this (there is a thread on Fares & Routeing where this was debated at length).

I believe Doncaster-Lincoln tickets are 'route any permitted' so as you correctly state, valid on any direct trains (via Gainsborough Lea Road, or via Sheffield and Worksop).

I'll let others commennt on whether Sheffield or via Barnetby are permitted routes for this ticket - both seem 'reasonable' to me bearing in mind the service pattern.

I will close by saying what a shame it is that the direct service via GBL and Saxilby is not more frequent - maybe one day Grand Central or equivalent will introduce a Sunderland-Doncaster-Gainsborough Lea Road-Saxilby-Lincoln-sSleaford-Spalding-Peterborough-London service. Would be a good ORCATS raid (on such tickets as Grantham-Newcastle) if nothing else.

 

[jopsuk]

The ones I am most familiar with are FCC's Cambridge stoppers which are advertised as Foxton from King's Cross and Finsbury Park from Cambridge (the latter seems odd to me as surely Potters Bar is the farthest destination that can't be reached on faster trains), but what other examples are out there?

Eh? The fast trains don't stop at Finsbury Park, the slow train is overtaken by the fast train and doubling back to Finsbury Park would require a further fare to be paid. Finsbury Park is therefore the sensible destination.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Isn't it better to do what Southeastern do at Victoria, which is to have a separate display showing "fastest train to ..." followed by a list of sensible main destinations?

This helps to stop passengers catching slow, stopping, trains when there is a faster alternative.

It can be, but not all stations which have the potential for people to get on the stopping service by mistake enjoy the facilities that London Victoria has. Advertising the penultimate station on a stopper is a perfectly good way of working in my opinion.

 

[northwichcat]

I don't get why they use them opposed to saying, in the case of the Northern service via Harrogate at Leeds, "York (Local stopping service.)" If you're not from the area and you've been told to catch a train towards York as far as Headingley (which is a likely scenario) and you see Poppleton on the departure board, how would you know that Poppleton means slow service to York via Poppleton?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Because years of experience of having to deal with people who get on the wrong train by mistake because they weren't paying attention to announcements are a factor here.

 

[Failed Unit]

Because years of experience of having to deal with people who get on the wrong train by mistake because they weren't paying attention to announcements are a factor here.

Yep we see this a lot in Edinburgh where the departure board clearly states.

1600 Glasgow Queen Street 13 (front 3 coaches)
1603 Dunblane 13 (rear 2 coaches)

The trains have destinations both extrenally and internally, but now gaurds don't open the doors on the 1603 until the 1600 has gone to prevent abuse from people that don't follow instructions.

off topic I know...

 

[Cherry_Picker]

We have the same issues at Marylebone. The set on the stop blocks has the doors locked and doesn't even get posted on the screens until the set at the top of the platform has departed. Sometimes this means there are only three or four minutes to board a train, and while far from ideal it is a better situation than having lots of people on the wrong train.

 

[northwichcat]

Because years of experience of having to deal with people who get on the wrong train by mistake because they weren't paying attention to announcements are a factor here.

So it doesn't happen in Manchester and Liverpool where stoppers are advertised as local stopping services but it does in Yorkshire where they are advertised as going to the second to last station?

 

[Dunderhead]

I think this is advertised as Farnborough up until Southampton Airport Parkway as you would do better for stations after Farnborough by using the following fast service which passes the slow one whilst it is calling at Eastleigh.

That makes good sense. Farnborough is an interesting choice as it contradicts what another poster said about the penultimate station being the one chosen (the penultimate station here would be Clapham Junction). How is the down service advertised from Waterloo, Southampton Central perhaps? I know it dwells for ages at Southampton and Brockenhurst in that direction.

Was on an unusual one last night... the shuttles from Ascot to Guildford via Aldershot are all Destination Guildford, except an early evening one which is marked on the timetable and at stations as destination Aldershot, change there for Guildford

In fact the train still goes through to Guildford, it says 'all change, this train terminates here' when you get to Aldershot, but those in the know stay on board because it departs a few minutes later to Guildford as normal.

The timetables show that these services (which start from Waterloo at 1705 and 1805) are immediately followed by short separate services from Aldershot to Guildford... strange, I wonder why these wouldn't be timetabled as a single service?

Eh? The fast trains don't stop at Finsbury Park, the slow train is overtaken by the fast train and doubling back to Finsbury Park would require a further fare to be paid. Finsbury Park is therefore the sensible destination.

The 'faster trains' I was referring to are the semi-fasts which only take about 10 minutes longer than the non-stops and do call at Finsbury Park, but I see there is only one of these per hour making the stopper still the fastest train to Finsbury Park at the time it leaves. My bad.