University is it worth it?

[43021HST]

Please note I'm studying BTEC level 3 IT. I just need some advice on whether going on to study something like computer science in university would be worth it or whether after college, I should find a job in IT instead.

Personally I'd prefer to find a job as I'd like my own economic independence from my parents now, something the world of higher education doesn't entirely allow. But I'm worried I maybe be limiting myself if I don't go to university. I received Distinction grades for my first year of college, so I'm wondering if I'd be chucking them away by not going.

Also the tuition fees are another off putting factor, as a lot of IT jobs are around the £30k mark it would mean had I been to university and found a job after, a lot of my wage would be sucked up by the debt.

Also after speaking to a couple of people in the IT sector, they say that companies prefer those who have taught themselves certain high level IT skills such as programming or 3D modelling at home rather than those who have been to university as it shows they may have more enthusiasm and interest in the job.

I'm just wondering what the users of RUK think, should I think about university or not?

One thing though is that I'd love to study 3D modelling using such software as 3DS max in more detail, does anyone know of any uni's that offer such courses?

 

[Haydn1971]

I self taught myself 3DS back in the mid 90's, used it a bit at work, did some stuff on the side for cash - at the time I was working in Traffic Engineering and was looking to earn extra money for "things", I had 4 years of architectural experience so used it to good effect. I showed an artistic friend the basics, led to him doing a portfolio, led to a job as a games tester, which got his foot in the door as an artist - in the last 20 years, he's worked for Gremlin, Infogram, EA and now Natural Motion and is probably earning more than me - he's got no academic skills, just a good artist and can use the tools. I've no degree, but I'm almost at Principal Engineer level, but the world is perhaps a tad different today - the degree gets your foot into the interview... Unless your artistic skills are worthwhile now - I'm assuming you fancy the games business ? Have you used 3DS Max or Maya ?

 

[DarloRich]

I would always say it is worth it.

 

[yorkie]

...Also after speaking to a couple of people in the IT sector, they say that companies prefer those who have taught themselves certain high level IT skills such as programming or 3D modelling at home rather than those who have been to university as it shows they may have more enthusiasm and interest in the job....

I think what they want more than anything else is experience.

If you do go to University, make sure you do a "sandwich" course with a work placement, and I'd also suggest doing some part time work (voluntary work if necessary) during your course.

 

[Tetchytyke]

University, like anything else in life, is what you make of it. If you trundle up to University, do the bare minimum and then expect to make your millions you're going to be very disappointed. If you keep a hard work ethic then, usually, you'll go further than someone with the same work ethic but no degree. Usual caveats apply.

As for the debt issue, I get why people worry about it but it isn't a big issue really. On the new system you pay 9% of everything you earn over £21,000pa; for someone on £30,000pa that equates to about £70 a month. It's an annoying amount of money, and one you'll probably be paying for your whole working life given compound interest, but it isn't a disaster in the grand scheme of things. Remember any debt is written off after 35 years anyway.

Choose your course wisely and make sure you get plenty of real-world experience.

 

[yorkie]

..., as a lot of IT jobs are around the £30k mark it would mean had I been to university and found a job after, a lot of my wage would be sucked up by the debt....

Based on a salary of £2.5k per month (£30k per year), £67[source] would be sucked up by the debt.

 

[alxndr]

Are there apprenticeships out there in your field, and are they a possibility?

I was in a similar situation but with engineering. I did a year of Level 3 BTEC at college, came away with a DM (I think, might have been higher) and couldn't find any jobs. I didn't want to go to university after hearing of too many people go and not be able to find a job afterwards. I got lucky enough to get on the NR apprenticeship scheme, ended up doing a great portion of the BTEC again and got D* that time around, and never looked back. I get to learn what's necessary for my career and earn a bit too.

I do get a twinge of regret each September/October seeing everyone else go off to uni, but I know what I see on Facebook isn't the reality of it. Once I've finished my apprenticeship next year and paid the deposit for a house I'm toying with the idea of doing a part time OU degree in History just for interest.

 

[najaB]

I'm just wondering what the users of RUK think, should I think about university or not?

Yes. But, strange as it may seem, not because of what you will learn in a lecture hall. It's all the other skills and experiences that make it worthwhile - dealing with deadlines, working in teams, socialising (not the same thing as drinking!), dealing with people from different backgrounds/cultures, scheduling, dealing with pressure, etc.

Yes, you can learn all of this in the University of Life, but it will take you a lot longer than three or four years and you won't have letters after your name to show for it.

 

[43021HST]

I'm most concerned about what the social situations like at university, my biggest issue is dealing with the childishness you get at college. People seem to revert to school mode, even people in their early 20s can be quite childish. It's a big thing that's putting me off continuing with education. Having to possibly sleep in a dorm with a bunch of people I may not get on with is a big concern.

I'm just wondering if the same situation exists at university as I've lost most of my patience with dealing with these people. Of course I accept at work you'll get these people but from what I've seen of working in IT you broadly get left alone whereas I've heard of some people having some bad experiences with uni's.

Have you used 3DS Max or Maya ?

I'm familiar with 3DS max.

 

[theblackwatch]

Based on a salary of £2.5k per month (£30k per year), £67[source] would be sucked up by the debt.

Or just under 2.6%. You need to do a cost benefit analysis to decide if going to uni is worth it. There's also the loss of potential earnings while at uni to take into account. I know one person who, having just turned 20 and having a job for the past 2-3 years is now in the process of buying a house after receiving a mortage offer from the bank - in a few month's time, he'll be starting to pay off a mortgage while others his age are building up debts at uni....

 

[radamfi]

Having to possibly sleep in a dorm

Since when do students sleep in dormitories? I've heard of people sharing a room, but only with one other person.

 

[DarloRich]

I'm most concerned about what the social situations like at university, my biggest issue is dealing with the childishness you get at college. People seem to revert to school mode, even people in their early 20s can be quite childish. It's a big thing that's putting me off continuing with education. Having to possibly sleep in a dorm with a bunch of people I may not get on with is a big concern.

I'm just wondering if the same situation exists at university as I've lost most of my patience with dealing with these people. Of course I accept at work you'll get these people but from what I've seen of working in IT you broadly get left alone whereas I've heard of some people having some bad experiences with uni's.



I'm familiar with 3DS max.

It not 1952! At university I had the following accommodation:

Year one: Large flat (university sponsored via housing association) with 7 other people, self catering, separate living room/kitchen, responsible for all bills etc all with own rooms and two shared showers and toilets

Year 2: Big house with 7 people same terms. It got a bit fractious by the end as we were all of the same course and together all the time went out together etc. We didn't give each other space and it hurt some relationships between us. Although the sky package and the pool table and the beer fridge helped

Years 3/4 small flat with my mate. Fantastic.

All the traditional halls were single rooms with some maisonette style and some with a canteen/refectory and there was NO WAY i was sharing a room! (unless for extra circular activites of which there were few )

Obviously there are challenges of living with people you don't know but that acceptance of shared space, finding consensus and considering other peoples views and moderating your behaviour is part of growing up.

(PS: Boarding school education? Do they still do common dorms?)

 

[Simon11]

If you do go to University, make sure you do a "sandwich" course with a work placement

Seconded- this is what made me stand out when applying from my jobs, rather than university. You see a clear difference in the unemployment stats for students who did a placement and the students who didn't

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'm most concerned about what the social situations like at university, my biggest issue is dealing with the childishness you get at college. People seem to revert to school mode, even people in their early 20s can be quite childish. It's a big thing that's putting me off continuing with education. Having to possibly sleep in a dorm with a bunch of people I may not get on with is a big concern.

The student housing market is a lot different these days. Unis don't have dorms, at the least you have your own room but with shared bathroom/kitchen, but both Universities and the private halls providers have an awful lot more choice now. Some of the halls can be very very nice indeed, completely self-contained apartments but with communal social spaces, and there's always the private rented sector too.

Socially university is what you make of it too. Sure you can still have the drinking and the puking if that's what you're after, but a lot of students these days aren't after that. There are plenty of older students these days, and plenty of ways of meeting them without needing to go anywhere near the student bar (and bear in mind most students' unions make more money off coffee than off booze these days...)

 

[DarloRich]

and bear in mind most students' unions make more money off coffee than off booze these days...)

Worlds gone mad!

 

[Haydn1971]

Just a thought, I see IT as a tool to do my job, rather than a career - I've this problem with my brother in law and a few friends - there are a "CAD Technician" which to me is a tool to do a job - I say, but what do you do with CAD ? They look at me blankly and say I'm a CAD technician....

What I'm getting at, is some jobs are conduits to getting a process done, the real money is in the creative mind, the person that thinks up the application, the person that imagines the game character, the person that designs a process, the problem solvers.... Being able to use IT isn't that - don't become lost in the conduit or process, make sure you are the irreplaceable creative element if you have that skill set - it will always set you apart from the drones that are the process.

You say you are familiar with 3DS Max, but doing what with it ? Artistic ? Games ? Buildings ? Virtual Worlds ?

 

[43021HST]

The student housing market is a lot different these days. Unis don't have dorms, at the least you have your own room but with shared bathroom/kitchen, but both Universities and the private halls providers have an awful lot more choice now. Some of the halls can be very very nice indeed, completely self-contained apartments but with communal social spaces, and there's always the private rented sector too.

Socially university is what you make of it too. Sure you can still have the drinking and the puking if that's what you're after, but a lot of students these days aren't after that. There are plenty of older students these days, and plenty of ways of meeting them without needing to go anywhere near the student bar (and bear in mind most students' unions make more money off coffee than off booze these days...)

By dorms I meant any form of shared accommodation, sorry I should have stated earlier. I'm more the sort of person who prefers a quiet night in than a noisy one out, I like a social life albeit a small one, Karl Pilkington was right when you said you only need 7 friends . I'll get along with anyone who's reasonably like minded, quiet, clean and leaves me alone.

At the moment I'm under the apprehension that university will basically be an extension of college, when it comes to peoples behavior anyway. I could be wrong, it would be great to meet a few miserable young gits like me rather than some irritating, childish socialites.

You say you are familiar with 3DS Max, but doing what with it ? Artistic ? Games ? Buildings ? Virtual Worlds ?

I mostly use it for Games at the moment, trainsim games to be exact, but I'd be interested in using it for architectural purposes. I do find it's ideal as a creative outlet though.

 

[alxndr]

(PS: Boarding school education? Do they still do common dorms?)

My school a couple of years ago had rooms ranging from 8 (3 bunks and 2 standard beds) down to single rooms, although the vast majority were 2 man rooms.

 

[cb a1]

At the moment I'm under the apprehension that university will basically be an extension of college, when it comes to peoples behavior anyway. I could be wrong, it would be great to meet a few miserable young gits like me rather than some irritating, childish socialites.

It's like the internet. If you go looking you'll find something of everything.

Also, bear in mind that you could pretty much treat it like a job. Turn up 9 to 5 each day, do the lectures, tutorials, practicals, etc. and live the rest of your life like you were in a [very poorly paid] job.

 

[jon0844]

Worlds gone mad!

It's why pubs are closing left right and centre, unless becoming restaurants. More profit on good, soft drinks and coffee than booze - where a chunk is tax.

Still, plenty of students locally trying to buck the trend and still getting wasted every night. At least until their money runs out!

 

[TheNewNo2]

University is not about what you learn (usually anyway, although computer science might be one of the fields where this isn't true). Instead it's about learning how to think, how to be an independent learner, and a chance to find out who you are before you throw yourself into a box for 40 years.

 

[ac6000cw]

University is not about what you learn (usually anyway, although computer science might be one of the fields where this isn't true). Instead it's about learning how to think, how to be an independent learner, and a chance to find out who you are before you throw yourself into a box for 40 years.

Exactly.

At the moment I'm under the apprehension that university will basically be an extension of college, when it comes to peoples behavior anyway. I could be wrong, it would be great to meet a few miserable young gits like me rather than some irritating, childish socialites.

There will be people from all sorts of backgrounds, with every shade of opinion and attitudes. That is one of the main reasons for being there - it's to open your mind up by learning, discussing and debating anything and everything with people you might otherwise never meet.

One thing I would add - if you are planning to study away from home try and choose which uni you go to carefully - go to the interviews/visits and look round the city/town as well. You will be living there for several years so it's got to 'feel' right. A long time ago now (nearly 40 years !), but I rejected several nominally 'better' universities after visiting them and chose Bradford because it felt like the right place for me - and I never regretted it for a second.

 

[455driver]

It's why pubs are closing left right and centre, unless becoming restaurants. More profit on good, soft drinks and coffee than booze - where a chunk is tax.

Still, plenty of students locally trying to buck the trend and still getting wasted every night. At least until their money runs out!

At which point they will start moaning about leaving University massively in debt, tuition fees etc! :roll:

 

[Tetchytyke]

I could be wrong, it would be great to meet a few miserable young gits like me rather than some irritating, childish socialites.

This place is full of boring old farts. Just stay clear of the medics

 

[headshot119]

I think what they want more than anything else is experience.

If you do go to University, make sure you do a "sandwich" course with a work placement, and I'd also suggest doing some part time work (voluntary work if necessary) during your course.

I'm not sure how much good the "sandwich" or "year in industry" courses do for someone compared to summer internships, or summer placements.

Something wildly contested in my last year of uni, and having spoken to the people who did year in industry last year, a large amount don't think it was worth it.

Myself personally, I got a part time job with a software development company whilst still at uni, they've now offered me a full time job when I graduate.

I do however agree that some sort of work experience is essential.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Please note I'm studying BTEC level 3 IT. I just need some advice on whether going on to study something like computer science in university would be worth it or whether after college, I should find a job in IT instead.

One thing to bear in mind is that there's no rule that says you have to go to University *now*. In principle, there's no problem with working a few years, then going to University. Doing that has the advantage that you'll most likely then have some savings to help cover you through the course, and you may well find you learn more, because you'll be approaching the course with more life experience, and a greater ability to see how what you learn might be applied in the world of work. You also might by that time have a clearer idea of precisely what area you want to study. Set against that, there is a potential disadvantage that as people get older, they are more likely to find themselves with family commitments that make it harder to hop off to the other end of the country for 3 years.

Also the tuition fees are another off putting factor, as a lot of IT jobs are around the £30k mark it would mean had I been to university and found a job after, a lot of my wage would be sucked up by the debt.

Are you prepared to go abroad? If so, you might find cheaper tuition fees in other European countries? (I don't know for sure, but it's possible).

Also after speaking to a couple of people in the IT sector, they say that companies prefer those who have taught themselves certain high level IT skills such as programming or 3D modelling at home rather than those who have been to university as it shows they may have more enthusiasm and interest in the job.

I'm just wondering what the users of RUK think, should I think about university or not?

One thing though is that I'd love to study 3D modelling using such software as 3DS max in more detail, does anyone know of any uni's that offer such courses?

Putting those three paragraphs together begs the question, is it worth your looking into teaching yourself 3D modelling at home? It obviously takes a lot of dedication and self-discipline to do that kind of thing, but, depending on your technical background, it may well be possible. I personally do a lot of work with Pluralsight, which offers a lot of online courses in that area for a (roughly) £20/month subscription.

Actually, if you go into any kind of programming work and you want a successful career, learning at home is probably something you'll need to get used to anyway - simply because technology changes so quickly. Staying ahead in programming invariably means spending quite a bit of time learning new things.

 

[Robertj21a]

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Personally, I wouldn't bother with University. Employers value real work experience and graduates tend to arrive with all theory and absolutely no real practice. As an employer I tended to ignore most Uni qualifications and look for evidence of a 'can do' attitude, confidence, and basic common sense.

 

[Hornet]

.
Personally, I wouldn't bother with University. Employers value real work experience and graduates tend to arrive with all theory and absolutely no real practice. As an employer I tended to ignore most Uni qualifications and look for evidence of a 'can do' attitude, confidence, and basic common sense.

I'd agree with this. In many years of dealing with and mentoring graduates, I have found that they come in with the 'I know it all' attitude, only to find out very quickly, that they are quite out of their depth. Indeed some grads I have dealt with have been as useful as a chocolate frying pan!

 

[Domh245]

Before tarring us all with the same brush, surely the course that they've done will play a large part in how useful they are (and how much value you would get out of your £9,000 p.a.) - I think it would go without saying that a degree in something like Engineering or Pharmacy would be a damn sight more useful than media studies!

As for Klambert's questions, I'm not aware of any courses that are specifically 3D modelling/CAD, but most engineering courses have a fairly large amount of it. If you've got a good grounding in something like 3Ds Max, a lot of the principles can transfer over to other modelling programs, which will give you a good start! And as for your worry about other students, whilst you may find that there are a bunch of idiots sharing your flat, chances are you won't, or you will be able to come to an agreement with them. If it gets that bad, you can always talk to the accommodation provider (assuming it is through your university, or through a university partner such as UPP) and see what alternative arrangements (unoccupied rooms!) are available.

But as the others have said, a lot of it depends on what you are going to make of it! Be sure to go and visit lots of unis on their open days and ask plenty of questions to the people there. Have a look through websites like the complete university guide and individual university websites to find courses that you like the look of, visit the uni (where possible) and see what you think!

 

[Bevan Price]

On average, most people benefit from attending University, but it does not suit everybody - only you can decide what is best for you, but listen to advice from others. It is no guarantee of getting a job after you finish, but it does tend to improve the chances of getting a job, and a higher salary.

You need to be prepared to work hard, but take some time for relaxation & hobbies. Beware of the type of "friend" who encourages you to spend too much money / time on alcoholic socialising - it won't help your studies.

Consider looking for a vacation job - especially one relating to your course - if you do it well, they may treat you favourably when you leave university and are looking for work - even a good reference will help you, if they have no available jobs when you leave University. . You may also want to consider getting a part time job at weekends during term time - to earn some spending money - but I suggest no more than one day per week - and avoid anything involving late night work. Tiredness reduces the effectiveness of study periods.