Boxing Day Services

[duncanp]

When i started on the railways (30 June 1980), railway services did not run on either Christmas day and Boxing day, in my current area of employment they still dont.

So because there were no train services on Boxing Day in 1980, that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be services today.

Any business (including the railways), whether publicly or privately owned, has to respond to the needs of customers, and those who work in andrun the business should recognise that their customers' needs can change over time.

I think there is clearly a demand for some services to run on Boxing Day.

When I moved to London in 1991, the Boxing Day service on the Victoria Line was every 15 minutes and only between Brixton and Seven Sisters. Now it is a full Sunday service (albeit with a later start) over the whole line. Transport for Londo run a full Sunday bus service on Boxing Day, which certainly didn't happen 20 - 30 years ago. Transport for London are also considering the viability of running a bus service on Christmas Day.

No-one is saying that there should be a full service over the entire National Rail network on Boxing Day. But the growth in the number of Boxing Day sales, plus the many sporting events that take place, suggests to me that there would be some demand for services.

In addition, people who do have to work on Boxing Day should be compensated adequately, with enhanced rates of pay and additional time off. There were a series of Boxing Day strikes on the London Underground a few year ago, but now the unions have negotiated a deal which is satisfactory to them and their members.

 

[Mojo]

In addition, people who do have to work on Boxing Day should be compensated adequately, with enhanced rates of pay and additional time off. There were a series of Boxing Day strikes on the London Underground a few year ago, but now the unions have negotiated a deal which is satisfactory to them and their members.

It is only Train Operators that get an extra payment for working December 26th, and this is paid for out of what was effectively a productivity deal regarding restrictions concerning the ability to transfer between depots.

 

[dk1]

From what I have seen this year, many drivers don't even want to work tomorrow (Sunday) let alone Boxing Day. There where just 5 volunteers for The night shift (4 required) & I think we all could've guessed the names beforehand. You're talking about a whole Lorry load of carrots before you get that past the Union

 

[muz379]

So because there were no train services on Boxing Day in 1980, that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be services today.

No , but if you do want a train service today you need to acknowledge that there are people that joined the railway on the understanding that they would not have to work boxing day and for that reason they might want to retain this term of their employment at all costs . I personally fall into that category , the only way a boxing day service is acceptable in my eyes is if it is voluntarily staffed with nobody being forced to give up their boxing day .

Any business (including the railways), whether publicly or privately owned, has to respond to the needs of customers, and those who work in andrun the business should recognise that their customers' needs can change over time.

I think there is clearly a demand for some services to run on Boxing Day.

No-one is saying that there should be a full service over the entire National Rail network on Boxing Day. But the growth in the number of Boxing Day sales, plus the many sporting events that take place, suggests to me that there would be some demand for services.

No business Has to adapt its trading times to meet the needs of its customers . It is good customer service but then a business should also consider the effect that this has on staff morale .A balancing act . Just because customers want something does not always mean they are going to get it . I mean I would like it if I did not have to pay for my goods in tesco , or if the tesco near me was a 24 hour store . But clearly this is not for the customer to decide

Given the growing population of non Christians in the UK for whom Christmas is not a celebration what you have essentially just said is that there could in the future be such a demand for a number of services over the festive period from these people that people in many more industries have to work Christmas day and boxing day . I mean why should banks or shops be closed when there is a sufficient demand among non Christians to treat Christmas day as a normal day .

I'm sorry but I do not accept that there is any responsibility for a business to alter its operation to meet the demands of customers for a boxing day service . You have 365 days to plan how you are going to get around on boxing day . If these means incurring additional costs on using expensive taxis or something like that then this is then for you to decide if what you want to do on boxing day is worth the extra money .

What industry do you work in ?

In addition, people who do have to work on Boxing Day should be compensated adequately, with enhanced rates of pay and additional time off. There were a series of Boxing Day strikes on the London Underground a few year ago, but now the unions have negotiated a deal which is satisfactory to them and their members.

I am glad you have at least said this , as I said I would go one further and say it should be voluntary working on boxing day . But you would never get enough volunteers to run an acceptable service unless you offered a full months pay as a booking on allowance

However one thing that is annoying is that a lot of people outside of the railway see no reason why there should be enhanced rates of pay , booking on allowances and additional days off for rail staff who do work boxing day . Funnily enough a lot of these people work in industries where they too do not work boxing day .

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Merseyrail are running trains between 9am & 6.30pm, however only a few stations are open.

Trains are running on all lines (Chester line as far as Hooton), at 30 minute intervals.
It's limited stop, so a faster journey from the open stations.
Southport-Liverpool Central 38 minutes rather than 45.
Hooton-Liverpool Central 25 minutes rather than 31.

 

[Antman]

There are shop staff having to work today for standard rates of pay, I don't agree with it but that is the reality and obviously many of them need public transport to get to and from work. Don't most other European countries have public transport running Christmas/Boxing Day?

 

[Retorus]

There are shop staff having to work today for standard rates of pay, I don't agree with it but that is the reality and obviously many of them need public transport to get to and from work. Don't most other European countries have public transport running Christmas/Boxing Day?

Yep, it's a little bit lazy of us not to, let's be honest.

 

[ComUtoR]

In addition, people who do have to work on Boxing Day should be compensated adequately, with enhanced rates of pay and additional time off.

Already happens.

 

[deltic]

I'm sorry but I do not accept that there is any responsibility for a business to alter its operation to meet the demands of customers for a boxing day service . You have 365 days to plan how you are going to get around on boxing day . If these means incurring additional costs on using expensive taxis or something like that then this is then for you to decide if what you want to do on boxing day is worth the extra money .

.

Failing to meet customer needs is one of the quickest ways for a business to go under as we have seen many times on the rail network. I see Megabus are operating virtually a normal service today. Of course a large number of railway staff are working today - well over 20,000 if Network Rail is correct - many are train drivers and signalers.

 

[LBSCR Times]

When I joined the railway way back in the 1970's, there were plenty of trains on Boxing Day, and having to start at 23.59 on Christmas Day.
And here I am, still working Boxing Day again, but this time management grades for one of the TOC's have to work for just basic pay......
Of course, in a 7 day a week industry, there should be no overtime required to cover Sunday's etc. they should be part of the working week, but, we won't go there, as senior management will never agree to it!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Already happens.

You're having a laugh aren't you? My lot wouldn't do that, there's more chance of winning the lottery than that happening.

 

[gtr driver]

When I was growing up the aim of the Western was towards a shorter working week and more leisure time for everyone ie working to live instead of living to work. Unfortunately the neoliberals have successfully managed to reverse much of what had been achieved for working people. Then they brainwashed a couple of generations into thinking that we must keep working longer for less, and consuming non stop, not even stopping for a proper two day break at Christmas any more, all to ensure that more wealth ends up at the top of the tree of course. Hence they think it's quite normal that non emergency services should sacrifice their leisure time to support this, preferably for no extra reward. Aided by their pals in the media, with drip drip stories about how the shops should be open every day for longer, how much bank holidays cost us etc etc.

 

[MikeWh]

... If these means incurring additional costs on using expensive taxis or something like that then this is then for you to decide if what you want to do on boxing day is worth the extra money ...

So let's get this straight. You don't want to operate trains, but you expect taxi drivers to drive their taxis on Boxing Day?

Just saying.

 

[455driver]

There are shop staff having to work today for standard rates of pay, I don't agree with it but that is the reality and obviously many of them need public transport to get to and from work. Don't most other European countries have public transport running Christmas/Boxing Day?

Is that written onto the contracts they signed when they accepted the job?

Spot the difference!

 

[GB]

Already happens.

Ha, on your company maybe.

 

[Minilad]

So let's get this straight. You don't want to operate trains, but you expect taxi drivers to drive their taxis on Boxing Day?

Just saying.

The vast majority of taxi drivers can pick and choose when they wish to work. So any working on Boxing Day are doing it because they want to or are happy to sacrifice the day to make some extra money

 

[GB]

So let's get this straight. You don't want to operate trains, but you expect taxi drivers to drive their taxis on Boxing Day?

Just saying.

...and no doubt taxi drivers charge a hefty premium for fares over Christmas.

 

[Sleepy]

So let's get this straight. You don't want to operate trains, but you expect taxi drivers to drive their taxis on Boxing Day?

Just saying.

but of course taxi' s charge double time and most are self employed so can work as long or little as they choose.

 

[SPADTrap]

H

From what I have seen this year, many drivers don't even want to work tomorrow (Sunday) let alone Boxing Day. There where just 5 volunteers for The night shift (4 required) & I think we all could've guessed the names beforehand. You're talking about a whole Lorry load of carrots before you get that past the Union

A lorry load of carrots each!

Long may it remain prohibitively expensive

 

[chris89]

There are shop staff having to work today for standard rates of pay, I don't agree with it but that is the reality and obviously many of them need public transport to get to and from work. Don't most other European countries have public transport running Christmas/Boxing Day?

Pretty bad if they are, but expect in there contracts and a contracted day to work.

For Co Operative, where i work it is time and a half + day in lieu + apparntly also get my normal pay for the 6-11 i would work, but since we close at 6pm i can't do that shift of course. Although i did volunteer to do the shift.

Got to remember for EU countries they don't follow boxing day like us and normally Celebrate Christmas on Christmas Eve.

Chris

 

[Antman]

Pretty bad if they are, but expect in there contracts and a contracted day to work.

For Co Operative, where i work it is time and a half + day in lieu + apparntly also get my normal pay for the 6-11 i would work, but since we close at 6pm i can't do that shift of course. Although i did volunteer to do the shift.

Got to remember for EU countries they don't follow boxing day like us and normally Celebrate Christmas on Christmas Eve.

Chris

In fairness there may well be some employers who are at least offering an enhanced rate of pay but there are some paying standard rate and staff are expected to struggle in with little or no public transport.

 

[DarloRich]

Good service in Strathclyde - coming to you live of from an Ayrshire line train!

 

[chris89]

In fairness there may well be some employers who are at least offering an enhanced rate of pay but there are some paying standard rate and staff are expected to struggle in with little or no public transport.

I perfectly understand that. Im lucky and work is basicly at the end of the road for me.

Many years ago my mum used to work in a care home in Evercreech and often had to work Christmas Day/ Boxing day etc and was just basic rate of pay.

 

[didcotdean]

A fairly normal bank holiday service was run on Boxing Day until 1975, when it was cancelled simply to save BR £130k. ASLEF protested against this, taking the position that it was a bad move for passengers who attended sporting occasions or visited relatives, even though their members would have some personal benefit.

They were back though in 1977, when Boxing Day was on Monday. In 1980 when it fell on a Friday once more they were cancelled again, and a full service never reappeared.

 

[muz379]

So let's get this straight. You don't want to operate trains, but you expect taxi drivers to drive their taxis on Boxing Day?

Just saying.

I dont expect taxi drivers to do anything . because if I wanted to go anywhere on boxing day (which incidentally I dont ) I would take responsibility for my own transportation .

Youve missed the point anyway . its not that I dont want to operate trains on boxing day . I dont want anybody to be forced to operate trains on boxing day .

My point was that it is a fact that there are some taxi drivers who will voluntarily go to work on boxing day, notice how I said voluntarily . I also said that I would have no issue with rail staff being asked to voluntarily give up boxing day . And it is also fact that taxi drivers will no doubt charge a premium for their services on boxing day , NYE , Christmas day , NYD etc etc . For that reason anybody who wishes to make a journey on boxing day should decide if the premium for their transportation for that day still makes their planned activities viable .Its not as if you dont have all year to think about this anyway

 

[jimbo99]

I dont expect taxi drivers to do anything . because if I wanted to go anywhere on boxing day (which incidentally I dont ) I would take responsibility for my own transportation .

We have a public transportation system, I pay my taxes and I pitch up at stations willing to pay for tickets. I feel that today, when so much of the rest of the service sector (private and public) is providing a service, the railway industry should "take responsibility" for my transportation.

Youve missed the point anyway . its not that I dont want to operate trains on boxing day . I dont want anybody to be forced to operate trains on boxing day .

My point was that it is a fact that there are some taxi drivers who will voluntarily go to work on boxing day, notice how I said voluntarily . I also said that I would have no issue with rail staff being asked to voluntarily give up boxing day

Well, ultimately people should be forced if necessary. If you want to work on the railways then that's the way it should be IMHO. A friend of mine is an airline purser, another is a manager of a fast food outlet. Both can be rostered to work today. They can request not to work today, but the service has to be delivered, and if necessary they must work. Neither of them thinks there is anything wrong about this.

I fully understand that lines may need to be closed for engineering works that would cause even more disruption if done at other times. But the near-shut down that occurs today just makes the railway industry look out of step.

 

[johntea]

I find if you use a decent private hire firm (Like Amber Cars in Leeds) or probably Uber too there is generally no or a very slight fare increase.

Taxi drivers are very keen to work over the festive period as then January is a terrible month for them!

Working in education I often forget people don't get that much time off. We broke up on the 22nd and don't return until the 4th

 

[muz379]

We have a public transportation system, I pay my taxes and I pitch up at stations willing to pay for tickets. I feel that today, when so much of the rest of the service sector (private and public) is providing a service, the railway industry should "take responsibility" for my transportation.



Well, ultimately people should be forced if necessary. If you want to work on the railways then that's the way it should be IMHO. A friend of mine is an airline purser, another is a manager of a fast food outlet. Both can be rostered to work today. They can request not to work today, but the service has to be delivered, and if necessary they must work. Neither of them thinks there is anything wrong about this.

I fully understand that lines may need to be closed for engineering works that would cause even more disruption if done at other times. But the near-shut down that occurs today just makes the railway industry look out of step.

Would you pay higher fares to provide for the large premiums that staff will want paying for working boxing day ?

The big difference between many members of rail staff and your friends is that they took a job knowing boxing day work may be necessary . Same reason I dont complain that I have to work bank holidays as a normal working day if I a rostered duty falls on a bank holiday . I signed the contract that stated this would be the working arrangement . If you wish to change a fundamental term of employment you need to go through the proper avenues of negotiation with the unions representing the employees . At the moment the attitudes at least in my place are that we would not accept boxing day work being forced upon us even for a premium . You cant just force people to work days that they are not contractually obliged to work . It might be good customer service but it is poor employee relation and who would you rather be on good terms with . A few people who want to go shopping in the sales or the people who work day in day out for you for 363 days of the year ?

 

[Hellfire]

We have a public transportation system, I pay my taxes and I pitch up at stations willing to pay for tickets. I feel that today, when so much of the rest of the service sector (private and public) is providing a service, the railway industry should "take responsibility" for my transportation

No. You are responsible for your transportation. Everyone know railway services are disrupted over the Christmas period and many services do not run. You had a year to prepare for this.

 

[Bellbell]

I'd say the solution to retail workers struggling in on boxing day without trains is to let those poor people have the day off too. Is there really any need for the relentless consumerism? I'm completely atheist but I don't see that there's an issue with the country having a shut down for a couple of days.

As others have said, the fact that some of you want trains to run on boxing day is meaningless to me. Good for you. I signed a contract that stated I had Christmas Day and Boxing Day off and that's worth a lot of money to me. Given how our shifts work, if Christmas Day fell on a Sunday it's perfectly conceivable that I could be in until late on Christmas Eve and then back in extremely bloody early on Boxing Day, as we sometimes have a Sunday changeover. Happy freaking Christmas to me! And all so you can worship at the altar of Next or some other purveyor of unnecessary crap.

For my money, leaving aside emergency services, either everyone works or no one does. Let's see how keen all the office staff, bank staff, library staff, lawyers etc are. If it's supposed to be a normal working day for me I want to be able to ring my council, pay in a cheque, borrow a book, finalise my divorce.

If I'm ever in Boxing Day it will only be because my union caved over a massive pay offer. And you can be damn sure that there will not be a single ounce of discretion shown to the travelling public on Boxing Day if I'm at work. Polite, professional but sticking completely to the rules. Including oversized and excess luggage, drinking on railway property etc.