London Bridge - new timetable during reconstruction works commencing 5th January 2015

[carriageline]

Change of aspect. Basically, a driver getting a more restrictive aspect on a signal without being told about it. IE green -> yellow.

 

[Minstral25]

RTT can't pick up trains on diverted routes and there aren't any timing points between Stoats Nest Junction and Earlswood on the Quarry Line.

The telltale sign of diversions via Redhill is Line S at Stoats Nest Junction, the fact that London Bridge to Horsham trains have extended dwell times at Redhill, half the Gatwick Express service being cancelled and London Bridge to Brighton Thameslink trains working south of Gatwick Airport only.

RTT does not pick up trains skipping stops on the Redhill route. If this is the same for the performance figures issued by the Train Companies are rubbish, showing better performance than is occurring. Along the route we have seen a lot of delay repays being rejected for trains that Skip stopped.

An example yesterday was the 5:36am Horsham to Victoria, which skipped Horley, Salfords, Earlswood, Redhill, Mertsham and Coulsdon South - yet RTT shows it as having called at all these stations. http://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk/Home/Service?ServiceId=24391456

 

[berneyarms]

RTT does not pick up trains skipping stops on the Redhill route. If this is the same for the performance figures issued by the Train Companies are rubbish, showing better performance than is occurring. Along the route we have seen a lot of delay repays being rejected for trains that Skip stopped.

An example yesterday was the 5:36am Horsham to Victoria, which skipped Horley, Salfords, Earlswood, Redhill, Mertsham and Coulsdon South - yet RTT shows it as having called at all these stations. http://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk/Home/Service?ServiceId=24391456

I think most people assume RTT = www.realtimetrains.co.uk and not that website.

It shows the train as skipping Horley and Salfords, but calling at Earlswood, and as above no times between Earlswood and Stoats Nest Junction.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W61987/2016/01/26/advanced

 

[tsr]

I think most people assume RTT = www.realtimetrains.co.uk and not that website.

It shows the train as skipping Horley and Salfords, but calling at Earlswood, and as above no times between Earlswood and Stoats Nest Junction.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W61987/2016/01/26/advanced

There will often be a slight delay shown for trains skipping stops at Earlswood due to the time taken to find a path on the Up Quarry, and it would be patently clear that any train moving onto said Up Quarry has no way of calling at Earlswood anyway, but merely waits adjacent to the station, as there are no longer any platforms there. Whether the Delay Repay team are aware of this sort of thing is anyone's guess. Judging by what others say on here, I suppose perhaps sadly not!

 

[Minstral25]

I think most people assume RTT = www.realtimetrains.co.uk and not that website.

It shows the train as skipping Horley and Salfords, but calling at Earlswood, and as above no times between Earlswood and Stoats Nest Junction.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W61987/2016/01/26/advanced

I was unaware that was the case. For me RecentTrainTimes is more useful as it shows service levels over a period of time, whereas RealTimeTrains you have to search each service individually.

It didn't call at Earlswood, that is for sure.

It's still leave some concern that performance figures are being fabricated along our route.

 

[Class377/5]

RTT does not pick up trains skipping stops on the Redhill route. If this is the same for the performance figures issued by the Train Companies are rubbish, showing better performance than is occurring. Along the route we have seen a lot of delay repays being rejected for trains that Skip stopped.

An example yesterday was the 5:36am Horsham to Victoria, which skipped Horley, Salfords, Earlswood, Redhill, Mertsham and Coulsdon South - yet RTT shows it as having called at all these stations. http://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk/Home/Service?ServiceId=24391456

RTT is not what the industry uses so performance is measured on something completely different and internal.

 

[southern442]

Not sure whether to put this here or in the other GTR timetable thread, but will the Tattenham Corner - Purley shuttle recommence after 2018? It would seem strange not to as that is an overall 33% reduction in services on the line.

 

[Hophead]

Not sure whether to put this here or in the other GTR timetable thread, but will the Tattenham Corner - Purley shuttle recommence after 2018? It would seem strange not to as that is an overall 33% reduction in services on the line.

Highly unlikely, unless there is a requirement to move some fresh air* from from one of the line to the other.

The third train was a short-lived and rather pointless innovation.

The closure of L&G's Kingswood site in 2018 will likely lead to a drop in counter-peak demand, although there will presumably be housing to replace it in subsequent years.


* or what passes for it alongside in the A23 if heading east to west

 

[swt_passenger]

Not sure whether to put this here or in the other GTR timetable thread, but will the Tattenham Corner - Purley shuttle recommence after 2018? It would seem strange not to as that is an overall 33% reduction in services on the line.

The way the reduction was explained in the DfT's franchise consultation response suggested it was a permanent decision. It wasn't done as a response to rebuilding works.

December 2015 onwards
4.151 Almost all customers on the Tattenham Corner route travel north of Purley. The franchisee will therefore not be required to offer the current off-peak shuttle services between Tattenham Corner and Purley, which is little used and therefore difficult to justify. However, the two trains per hour from Tattenham Corner to London Bridge will continue to run. There are no other changes to the off-peak service requirements.

 

[RichJF]

All gone 'capoot' again this morning: Broken rail/track defect being banded about as the reason.

Every train on the fast tracks between Norwood/Forest Hill being stopped & guided through. A few are being diverted to Victoria instead.

 

[carriageline]

Certainly ain't a broken rail!

 

[RichJF]

Certainly ain't a broken rail!

Hmm interesting. One of the announcements the guard made was because of a broken rail. Although he's not an engineer so...

 

[physics34]

the tatt-purley shuttle was pointless and was provided really as a sweetener when the Smitham to London Bridge servicees were scrapped in 2008 (?).

It wont be coming back..... was hardly ever used.

All the stations on that line are pretty quiet off peak, and have no demand for anything more than 2 trains per hour.... in fact up until the mid 90s woodmansterne to tattenham was hourly!

Itll be interesting to know after 2018 when the Tattenham Thameslinks commence what will happen with the current peak time Tattenham/Caterham to Victorias and the evening Victoria to Tattenham all stations services.

 

[Deepgreen]

Hmm interesting. One of the announcements the guard made was because of a broken rail. Although he's not an engineer so...

My conductor announced a combination of a failed train, passengers taken ill at Norwood and Clapham Junctions and something else unintelligible.

 

[southern442]

This evening, there was plenty of disruption at East Croydon. Trains turning up 10 minutes late with no announcements whatsoever, station staff not being sure if a train listed as 'Not In Service' was meant to pass through or form the coaches for a Victoria stopper, it was all pretty bad. But the worst thing is, there were no announcements except for the 'the train now approaching' announcements on platform 6, and NO information given whatsoever. No mention of disruption, unless you count 'a landslip' meaning that all MKC trains had to terminate at Watford Jn as something that would affect the whole network.

 

[maniacmartin]

My conductor announced a combination of a failed train, passengers taken ill at Norwood and Clapham Junctions and something else unintelligible.

My train's driver announced it as 'a previous driver reported a rough ride in the Forest Hill area so we're getting red signals whilst a 5mph emergency speed restriction is being put in place'

I didn't notice a rough ride on my train but that may be because we were moving glacially slowly!

 

[southern442]

It seems like they have been asked to make up a few excuses to use throughout the day when everything goes wrong each night!

 

[LBSCR Times]

It seems like they have been asked to make up a few excuses to use throughout the day when everything goes wrong each night!

So, todays reasons are....
Track defect on the Up Fast at Forest Hill.
Passenger taken ill on a train on the Up Fast at Clapham Junction, during the peak, for 40 minutes.
Passenger taken ill on the Down Fast at Clapham Junction, this afternoon, and then a train failure on the Down Slow at Clapham Junction just after the one on the Down Fast moved....

There are so many trains now on the system, that service recovery on Metro services is virtually impossible without taking trains off the road completely for several hours!

 

[Deepgreen]

So, todays reasons are....
Track defect on the Up Fast at Forest Hill.
Passenger taken ill on a train on the Up Fast at Clapham Junction, during the peak, for 40 minutes.
Passenger taken ill on the Down Fast at Clapham Junction, this afternoon, and then a train failure on the Down Slow at Clapham Junction just after the one on the Down Fast moved....

There are so many trains now on the system, that service recovery on Metro services is virtually impossible without taking trains off the road completely for several hours!

On London Underground the policy is to remove ill passengers from trains as quickly as possible - usually within a couple of minutes (with the exception of spinal injuries, which are extremely rare) to allow the train service to continue (and, in turn, to reduce the risk of further passengers being taken ill by being stuck behind the first train for an extended period). Why does it take 40 minutes or so on Southern at Clapham Junction? There are ample staff there to remove a passenger quickly. There have been several ill passengers at Clapham Junction recently and all seem to have taken a huge amount of time to remove to allow resumption of service.

 

[Bald Rick]

On London Underground the policy is to remove ill passengers from trains as quickly as possible - usually within a couple of minutes (with the exception of spinal injuries, which are extremely rare) to allow the train service to continue (and, in turn, to reduce the risk of further passengers being taken ill by being stuck behind the first train for an extended period). Why does it take 40 minutes or so on Southern at Clapham Junction? There are ample staff there to remove a passenger quickly. There have been several ill passengers at Clapham Junction recently and all seem to have taken a huge amount of time to remove to allow resumption of service.

I don't know the ins and outs of this case, but I have been involved in several sick passenger incidents where a medic (either on board as a passenger or the first paramedic to scene) has insisted that the patient is not moved until the ambulance crew arrives. I gather this is standard procedure for anything heart related or potential back / neck injuries.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Where given the opportunity passengers are getting quite well trained, and kicking passengers who complain of being unwell out of train to sit on a bench!

I notice that quite often there is a cyclist paramedic on the concourse at London Bridge, not sure if he is there as on the balance of probabilities thats where his next call will be, or as he has already been called and is waiting for next one!

 

[Deepgreen]

I don't know the ins and outs of this case, but I have been involved in several sick passenger incidents where a medic (either on board as a passenger or the first paramedic to scene) has insisted that the patient is not moved until the ambulance crew arrives. I gather this is standard procedure for anything heart related or potential back / neck injuries.

Yes. the LU policy used to be similar but they have now adopted the regime of insisting ill passengers be moved off the train asap, even if on-train off- or on-duty medical staff prefer otherwise, because, a) they can be better treated off the train, b) the delay to the train will inevitably delay other trains behind with the increasing risk of creating further ill/'desperate' passengers on those, and c) off-train treatment also minimises the overall service delay. Exceptions are, as I said, spinal injuries.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Talking of Clapham Junction, while sitting on my train yesterday evening, I noticed that the platform train indicator on platform 13 states that the "Front Coach" is for Three Bridges, and the "Rear Coach" is for Reigate. There was no mention of where the remaining six coaches of the eight coach train were headed!

I saw the same message displayed at this quiet out-of-the-way halt a couple of months ago - does no-one ever check these messages or report such obvious errors!?

 

[physics34]

So, todays reasons are....
Track defect on the Up Fast at Forest Hill.
Passenger taken ill on a train on the Up Fast at Clapham Junction, during the peak, for 40 minutes.
Passenger taken ill on the Down Fast at Clapham Junction, this afternoon, and then a train failure on the Down Slow at Clapham Junction just after the one on the Down Fast moved....

There are so many trains now on the system, that service recovery on Metro services is virtually impossible without taking trains off the road completely for several hours!

these 10 cars and the london bridge work hasnt helped. Should be able to leave trains at terminus stations until there next working, but there is just no room.

 

[infobleep]

Yes. the LU policy used to be similar but they have now adopted the regime of insisting ill passengers be moved off the train asap, even if on-train off- or on-duty medical staff prefer otherwise, because, a) they can be better treated off the train, b) the delay to the train will inevitably delay other trains behind with the increasing risk of creating further ill/'desperate' passengers on those, and c) off-train treatment also minimises the overall service delay. Exceptions are, as I said, spinal injuries.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Talking of Clapham Junction, while sitting on my train yesterday evening, I noticed that the platform train indicator on platform 13 states that the "Front Coach" is for Three Bridges, and the "Rear Coach" is for Reigate. There was no mention of where the remaining six coaches of the eight coach train were headed!

I saw the same message displayed at this quiet out-of-the-way halt a couple of months ago - does no-one ever check these messages or report such obvious errors!?

The station is run by South West Trains and not Southern. Were the service and station run by Southern or South West Trains and not both, things would be different.

 

[Deepgreen]

The station is run by South West Trains and not Southern. Were the service and station run by Southern or South West Trains and not both, things would be different.

Probably true - but can't the SWT platform/station staff report an error in a displayed message such as this to their SWT masters?

Surely also it cannot be beyond the wit of man to put a procedure in place for SWT staff to remove ill passengers from any train running through their station? After all, it would benefit any TOC running trains through the station to have this arrangement in place rather than an apparent stalemate where 40 minutes are spent waiting for someone with 'authority' to act, thereby fouling up possibly almost the whole day's service and accruing countless delay minutes for the TOC(s) involved.

 

[Bald Rick]

I notice that quite often there is a cyclist paramedic on the concourse at London Bridge, not sure if he is there as on the balance of probabilities thats where his next call will be, or as he has already been called and is waiting for next one!

AIUI, he is paid for by NR. Could have done with him at Clapham Jn yesterday and today.

 

[southern442]

So, todays reasons are....
Track defect on the Up Fast at Forest Hill.
Passenger taken ill on a train on the Up Fast at Clapham Junction, during the peak, for 40 minutes.
Passenger taken ill on the Down Fast at Clapham Junction, this afternoon, and then a train failure on the Down Slow at Clapham Junction just after the one on the Down Fast moved....

There are so many trains now on the system, that service recovery on Metro services is virtually impossible without taking trains off the road completely for several hours!

I'll be interested to see what the excuses are today.

This morning the 0718 from East Croydon left at 0720 as usual, didn't get to Selhurst until 0726 (scheduled 0722, previously 0721) so I had to sprint over to platform 1 to jump on the 0727 train.

Speaking of that train, pre-December it was due to arrive at my destination station at 07:38, but it was late so frequently that the timetable change padded it out. It is now timetabled to arrive at 07:40, but for some reason it still runs late and arrives at 07:42 or 43.

On the way home, my train, timetabled to arrive at Upper Warlingham at 16:23, was listed on the displays as expected 16:24. It actually arrived at 16:26, so it now appears that trains can't even keep to their delay time!

The new timetable has so much padding and trains are still finding themselves late at most stations, on top of the longer journey times already.

People are complaining about the fares rising, and I think I have found a reason for the increase. The UK network must operate like a taxi service, so the longer time the train takes, the higher the fare! So the more the trains get padded and delayed, the higher our fares will be

 

[LBSCR Times]

I'll be interested to see what the excuses are today.

Where do you want me to start......:grin:

Track defect on the Up Fast at Forest Hill (again).
Track defect on the Up Fast at Horley.
Passenger taken ill at Clapham Junction (again).
Several unit defects....
Signalling failure on the Arun Valley.
Bridge strike Three Bridges.
Points failure Sydenham.
Passenger disturbance at Three Bridges.

And so it goes on.....

 

[southern442]

Where do you want me to start......:grin:

Track defect on the Up Fast at Forest Hill (again).
Track defect on the Up Fast at Horley.
Passenger taken ill at Clapham Junction (again).
Several unit defects....
Signalling failure on the Arun Valley.
Bridge strike Three Bridges.
Points failure Sydenham.
Passenger disturbance at Three Bridges.

And so it goes on.....

There were also reports of a driver seeing Jesus Christ on the line at Cosham and a flock of Zombie Pigmen in the London Victoria area.

 

[carriageline]

There were also reports of a driver seeing Jesus Christ on the line at Cosham and a flock of Zombie Pigmen in the London Victoria area.

You forgot the driver reporting the overheads were down outside London Bridge.