Potential sites for a new Northern DMU depot

[edwin_m]

With one of those schemes being The Calder Valley line

In which case electric trains will have access to Newton Heath. But not before.

And there would still be the cost and disruption of electrifying the depot itself, which would be wasted if there were already adequate facilities nearby for EMUs but a continuing need for DMU facilities.

 

[snowball]

I believe the latest ATOC rolling stock plan mentions the upcoming electrification refresh had settled on 12/13 future electrification schemes good to go with the rest of the 32 needing further work to become viable business propositions.

The current issue of Rail magazine (797, page 7) reports a parliamentary answer given by McLoughlin on 10 March to the effect that no new electrification is planned in the north before 2024 (i.e. the end of CP6) except the extension of the MML wiring from Sheffield to Doncaster and towards Wakefield.

Of course, the CP6 HLOS (or whatever replaces it following the Shaw review) has yet to be written, but with MML and TP extending well into CP6, and with Windermere and Lostock-Wigan yet to be reprogrammed, I'd be surprised if very much else was scheduled for CP6.

 

[WatcherZero]

Would still need to get going drawing up engineering plans, doing structures work and integrating it in to long term planning even before actual work on electrification begins.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The current issue of Rail magazine (797, page 7) reports a parliamentary answer given by McLoughlin on 10 March to the effect that no new electrification is planned in the north before 2024 (i.e. the end of CP6) except the extension of the MML wiring from Sheffield to Doncaster and towards Wakefield.

Of course, the CP6 HLOS (or whatever replaces it following the Shaw review) has yet to be written, but with MML and TP extending well into CP6, and with Windermere and Lostock-Wigan yet to be reprogrammed, I'd be surprised if very much else was scheduled for CP6.

That is disappointing. I was hoping in view of the Northern Document (forgot its exact name) by a part of MPs from all sides, that at least Calder Valley route would get done or at least started.

 

[Darren R]

Blackburn seems to be confirmed as the site for a new DMU depot. Northern are advertising for Trainee Drivers at the site, and from comments posted elsewhere on the Forum an opening in December 2017 is anticipated.

The planning application was lodged with Blackburn with Darwen Council on May 16th for Prior Approval (since it is to be entirely on railway land.) The application says this:

The scheme involves the reinstatement of a previously-removed rail connection to the mainline operational railway, which will extend into the site, where there it is proposed to lay a number of tracks for the purposes of train stabling. Associated infrastructure within the site will include an office accommodation building; controlled emission transfer toilet emptying system, plantroom and water tanks; parking for 6 cars, a bike shelter and provision for motorcycle parking; carriage wash facilities and other associated installations and infrastructure as detailed on the submitted scheme drawings.

The existing bridge carrying the railway over Galligreaves Street is to be reconstructed and replaced with a new concrete bridge structure.

All the planning application documents, including detailed drawings, can be found here:

http://planning.blackburn.gov.uk/northgate/documentexplorer/application/folderview.aspx?type=PLNP11_DC_PLANAPP&key=50007&iWgrnzsWW4I=aH8Pp24Bn4U=

The drawings seem to suggest six depot roads, each capable of holding five 23m carriages:

http://planning.blackburn.gov.uk/northgate/documentexplorer/application/stream.aspx?target=http%3A%2F%2F10.200.18.171%2FNorthgate%2FDocumentExplorer%2FDocumentStream%2FDocumentStream.aspx%3Fname%3D%255bpublic%255d%2B16_0531%2BGeneral%2BArrangement%2BNHE_138957-2030-BBS4-101-DDR-T-001100-P01.pdf%26unique%3D50007%26type%3DPLNP11_DC_PLANAPP

Curiously, I can find no mention of this in the Lancashire Telegraph. Given that (a) it will be bringing jobs to the town, and (b) the site is immediately next to one of the town's schools, I would have expected them to have picked up on the story.

 

[WatcherZero]

Right that's DMU's sorted, sadly we still aren't any closer to an EMU answer.

It does look to be an almost exact reinstatement of a long closed depot, not even any demolition required. You can even still see the foundations of the original depot roads. As its wholly within Railways land they don't even need planning permission its just a polite heads up.

Seems just last year the Council was proposing removing the sites protection for possible rail freight use as the site is too small and theres an alternate facility nearby and to rezone for office use.

http://www.blackburn.gov.uk/lists/downloadabledocuments/2015-dl-freckleton-street-masterplan.pdf

 

[edwin_m]

Here's a Bing view of the site:

https://binged.it/2a8bvlN

Parking for only 6 cars seems very low. Due to likely relocation from jobs elsewhere and needing to start and finish at unsocial hours a large proportion of train crews will need to drive to work.

Apparently a former general freight depot and latterly a coal concentration depot.

https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=21404

 

[pemma]

Right that's DMU's sorted, sadly we still aren't any closer to an EMU answer.

We seem to now have two threads on the same subject. Guide Bridge and Bradford have been mentioned in the other thread.

 

[lejog]

Bradford was a rumour. The Franchise Agreement, specifies Blackburn, Wigan and somewhere in Manchester, likely Guide Bridge.

The Franchisee shall procure the provision of a new fully operational and commissioned stabling facility in the Manchester area (which shall be additional to the planned facilities at Wigan and Blackburn referred to in the IAD) appropriately connected to the network of Network Rail by no later than 31 May 2019. The Franchisee shall fully and effectively co-operate with Network Rail to review and optimise Network Rail’s existing proposals for new stabling at Guide Bridge and at other potentially suitable sites with a view to identifying the scheme location and design that delivers best whole-industry value for money.

 

[montyburns56]

It seems strange that the best location that they could find was one that involves having to rebuild a bridge.

 

[Geeves]

You would have thought the sidings next to the station would have provided room for plenty of stabling obviously with a bit of fettling. That said access would of been difficult by road at the station site, that and it not being too secure for stabling for the shiny new toys from Spain.

 

[najaB]

You would have thought the sidings next to the station would have provided room for plenty of stabling obviously with a bit of fettling.

That's not really that much room, all things considered. Plus, I suspect the council will have eyes on that space for expanding the retail area next door.

 

[Andrew32]

Anyone have any idea of the planned staffing levels for this depot?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

That's not really that much room, all things considered. Plus, I suspect the council will have eyes on that space for expanding the retail area next door.

Wouldn't be too sure about that one, I believe the majority of the ground floor of the huge Vue Cinema next door to the sidings is dormant. Never heard anything about further retail plans from the council, and if anything more of the railway land will probably end up as the station car park as I believe capacity improvements there are part of the franchise agreement.

 

[WCMLaddict]

Anyone have any idea of the planned staffing levels for this depot?

Andrew, do you seriously think people here will be able to give you more information than people on the employees group page you have also commented on?

The area director herself told you that guards details are still being negotiated and that you should just wait to hear more, yet you come here and ask more like that wasn't enough.

 

[WatcherZero]

Anyone have any idea of the planned staffing levels for this depot?

Probably around 20 staff across all professions. The planning application has 22 staff lockers and 6 car parking spaces (normally assume a 4:1 ratio of staff to parking for a city centre site).

 

[Andrew32]

Probably around 20 staff across all professions. The planning application has 22 staff lockers and 6 car parking spaces (normally assume a 4:1 ratio of staff to parking for a city centre site).

Thanks
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Andrew, do you seriously think people here will be able to give you more information than people on the employees group page you have also commented on?

The area director herself told you that guards details are still being negotiated and that you should just wait to hear more, yet you come here and ask more like that wasn't enough.

Who said I was asking about my query, that as you have rightly pointed out, has already been addressed.

I have been asked by numerous people in different jobs over the past few days in Area East and employed by other companies how big the depot will be and what jobs will be coming up there, maybe I should have worded it different to avoid confusion.

Regards to information on this forum, I have often found out more on here than the employee group and more often than not its been discussed on here before anything has been announced on the group.

 

[montyburns56]

I visited the site yesterday and they have already cleared the area and started to prepare it for the new depot. It's a shame really as I was hoping to photograph it before the work was started.

Incidentally when did the King St depot stop getting coal deliveries by rail?

 

[Bevan Price]

In which case electric trains will have access to Newton Heath. But not before.

And there would still be the cost and disruption of electrifying the depot itself, which would be wasted if there were already adequate facilities nearby for EMUs but a continuing need for DMU facilities.

Miles Platting Junction to Newton Heath depot would be an easy add-on to the Stalybridge line electrification - just a mile or so of track, and 2-3 sidings would be enough.