EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[TheKnightWho]

Yes that's exactly what it says. I repeat, it doesn't actually say that the £350m will be spent on the NHS. How people interpret it is a matter for them.

So you think misleading people has nothing to do with people saying it? If you made a claim like that in court, and claimed you weren't technically lying, you would be held in contempt of court. What on earth do you think "instead" refers to in that claim? It is literally and outright claiming that the £350m would be spent on the NHS instead.

This kind of pedantic rubbish is the very reason why the Leave campaign has been filled with lies and half-truths, and it's exactly why we have just left the EU under false pretences. Pathetic defences like yours do not absolve the campaign of anything, and only further fuel the fire of people feeling like this whole thing has been a sham. You should feel ashamed of yourself.

 

[Antman]

Those exact words might not have been on the bus, but what about the posters?

Ok I'll concede it could be misleading but that's politics. Replace the word 'Lets' with the words 'We will' and you've got a case!

 

[bb21]

Ok I'll concede it could be misleading but that's politics. Replace the word 'Lets' with the words 'We will' and you've got a case!

Have you considered taking over Alistair Campbell's old roles? You are very good.

 

[Antman]

Absolutely not, I swear.
It's from ITV's website:
http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2016-06-24/nathan-gill-i-dont-know-anything-about-350m-nhs-pledge/

I suspect he was being ironic?

 

[backontrack]

Ok I'll concede it could be misleading but that's politics. Replace the word 'Lets' with the words 'We will' and you've got a case!

Why? That's a completely arbitrary cut-off point.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Yes that's exactly what it says. I repeat, it doesn't actually say that the £350m will be spent on the NHS. How people interpret it is a matter for them.

Ok I'll concede it could be misleading but that's politics. Replace the word 'Lets' with the words 'We will' and you've got a case!

Denial isn't just a river in Africa, you know.

 

[me123]

Yes that's exactly what it says. I repeat, it doesn't actually say that the £350m will be spent on the NHS. How people interpret it is a matter for them.

It is quite clearly designed to imply to the voter that there will be £350,000,000 every week spent on the NHS. It is deliberately misleading as a result.

1) We won't have a net gain of £350,000,000 simply by leaving the EU. That figure was exposed as a lie.
2) Having to fund various other things by ourselves and return the bureaucracy to our shores will actually diminish that even further.
3) Potential loss of tax revenue may diminish that even further still.
4) At the end of this, any surplus will be divided as the government sees fit, not at the whim of the Leave campaign. It could spread that money elsewhere. Knowing the Conservatives, they'll probably seek to use the money to cut taxes rather than invest in public services.

The last point is quite crucial, and is actually reason enough to have ignored these arguments. This isn't a vote for a budget, so claims that we could spend £x on the NHS/Education/Defence/preserving Morris dancing should have been rubbished from the get go.

 

[Antman]

Have you considered taking over Alistair Campbell's old roles? You are very good.

Thank you, but I won't be giving up the day job just yet

 

[VauxhallandI]

So a bus that suggests that £350m could be spent on the NHS, sparking large amounts of debate on the subject, had no effect on whether or not people voted Leave?

Sometimes I wonder what planet you people are living on, because it doesn't seem to be Earth.

Give it a rest Antman, you know fine well the easily led believed it. Yes it's cleverly worded, but why is it cleverly worded? You've just point out exactly why.

You're not down the pub with you're nodding gullible pals.

 

[kermit]

"According to reports from the Cambridge News, a number of cards saying “Leave the EU/No more Polish vermin” in both English and Polish were found outside St Peter’s school by teaching assistants and students, including an 11-year-old Polish child, who reported they made him feel “really sad”."

And outside a mosque near Birmingham, a group of thugs stand chanting "Allah, who the F*^* is Allah?"

A time to be proud to be British? No.

 

[Antman]

Give it a rest Antman, you know fine well the easily led believed it. Yes it's cleverly worded, but why is it cleverly worded? You've just point out exactly why.

You're not down the pub with you're nodding gullible pals.

Well rightly or wrongly that's politics!
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"According to reports from the Cambridge News, a number of cards saying “Leave the EU/No more Polish vermin” in both English and Polish were found outside St Peter’s school by teaching assistants and students, including an 11-year-old Polish child, who reported they made him feel “really sad”."

And outside a mosque near Birmingham, a group of thugs stand chanting "Allah, who the F*^* is Allah?"

A time to be proud to be British? No.

And no right minded person would condone such behaviour, your point being?

 

[lejog]

The only thing Alastair Campbell was good at was being very, very bad.

 

[Domh245]

Would this be the same bus that didn't actually say that the £350m would be spent on the NHS? Read what it actually says and not what you want it to say!

For avoidance of doubt, here is a photo of the bus

We send the EU £350 million a week
let's fund our NHS instead - Vote Leave

So whilst it doesn't explicitly say, vote leave and we'll spend £350 million a week extra on the NHS, it is certainly implied.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Well rightly or wrongly that's politics!
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And no right minded person would condone such behaviour, your point being?

You're not a politician and this is not a political debate.

It would be far more useful if you just admitted straight away it was a load balls and mislead some dumb ass people to vote Leave.

You might a bit more traction out of people on here if you did. If you don't care if you do then what's the point on being on here talking about it all?

 

[Antman]

For avoidance of doubt, here is a photo of the bus

So whilst it doesn't explicitly say, vote leave and we'll spend £350 million a week extra on the NHS, it is certainly implied.

My point exactly!
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You're not a politician and this is not a political debate.

It would be far more useful if you just admitted straight away it was a load balls and mislead some dumb ass people to vote Leave.

You might a bit more traction out of people on here if you did. If you don't care if you do then what's the point on being on here talking about it all?

As was David Cameron's pledge to cut immigration.

 

[anme]

Those exact words might not have been on the bus, but what about the posters?

Good find - nice work. Let's see what the leavers have to say to this.
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Ok I'll concede it could be misleading but that's politics. Replace the word 'Lets' with the words 'We will' and you've got a case!

That's the most pathetic response I've seen yet on this thread. You might also comment on the 350 million pounds figure.

BTW, still waiting for you to say what you think should happen next. EEA membership seems best, right, with free movement of goods and services preserved?

 

[Antman]

Good find - nice work. Let's see what the leavers have to say to this.
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That's the most pathetic response I've seen yet on this thread. You might also comment on the 350 million pounds figure.

BTW, still waiting for you to say what you think should happen next. EEA membership seems best, right, with free movement of goods and services preserved?

It's not as pathetic as constantly asking questions that you know cannot be answered on a forum like this, it doesn't matter what I think. I don't have a say in it:roll:

 

[backontrack]

BTW, still waiting for you to say what you think should happen next. EEA membership seems best, right, with free movement of goods and services preserved?

I'm still waiting for him to say why he supported Brexit.

 

[Garmoran]

Those exact words might not have been on the bus, but what about the posters?

I hadn't seen these before - did no-one, either in the Remain or the Exit camp think to point out that much of the money will be needed to cover expenditure that is currently funded by the EU? I'm thinking of payments to farmers, who will have factored these into their business plans for the next 4 years, but no doubt there are other sectors of society which will be affected when EU funding stops.

 

[anme]

It's not as pathetic as constantly asking questions that you cannot be answered on a forum like this, it doesn't matter what I think. I don't have a say in it:roll:

I actually think you will have a say in it, in a general election or another referendum. Don't you think you should? Isn't it an even bigger decision than leaving the EU?

And why can't the question of what you think should happen be answered on a forum like this? I've said what I think should happen (EEA membership at all costs). Why can't you? You MUST have thought about this.

 

[DelayRepay]

The only thing Alastair Campbell was good at was being very, very bad.

I don't like the man but I do agree with what he said today: "If Boris Johnson becomes Prime Minister, I will be ashamed to be British".

 

[Mutant Lemming]

But. Again this is a lie. For the most part, the areas which have the highest migration saw the highest votes for remain. And the areas which have the lowest levels of migration saw the highest votes for leaving. See http://www.theguardian.com/politics...migration-fears-were-paradoxical-but-decisive


?

How the hell can the results in Lincolnshire be a lie - you obviously didn't actually read what I said. ALL the small town locations and go back and check them, ALL the small town locations which have had mass immigration voted leave - I did say at the start that cities are used to immigration , small towns don't cope. Boston and Spalding were almost 3 to 1 for leave. Typical of both sides in this campaign to call a truth a lie. Check your facts before you start saying something is a lie.

..oh and also the two cities with least immigration Liverpool and Newcastle voted remain so another 'error' in your response.

 

[backontrack]

How the hell can the results in Lincolnshire be a lie - you obviously didn't actually read what I said. ALL the small town locations and go back and check them, ALL the small town locations which have had mass immigration voted leave - I did say at the start that cities are used to immigration , small towns don't cope. Boston and Spalding were almost 3 to 1 for leave. Typical of both sides in this campaign to call a truth a lie. Check your facts before you start saying something is a lie.

But I would say that Windermere and Bowness have suffered mass immigration too, and they're for Remain! It's just that the immigrants are southerners, not foreigners.

 

[anme]

How the hell can the results in Lincolnshire be a lie - you obviously didn't actually read what I said. ALL the small town locations and go back and check them, ALL the small town locations which have had mass immigration voted leave - I did say at the start that cities are used to immigration , small towns don't cope. Boston and Spalding were almost 3 to 1 for leave. Typical of both sides in this campaign to call a truth a lie. Check your facts before you start saying something is a lie.

Please look at the statistics, and I did say "for the most part". Given the general pattern of places that have little migration being the most pro-brexit, and vice versa, perhaps the vote in Lincolnshire was not actually about migration. Or perhaps Lincolnshire is exceptional in some way. Otherwise, how do you explain the pattern?

I'm posting a reference again so readers can check for themselves: http://www.theguardian.com/politics...migration-fears-were-paradoxical-but-decisive

 

[Howardh]

As an exercise in geography and politics, the Scottish question is a very interesting one. I asked in another forum "COULD Scotland both be in the EU AND UK if Eng/Wales left, but not be independent?

I can't see why not; although there are practical rules it would have to adhere to. It would have to have fiscal responsibility - raise and spend it's own taxes and not depend on Westminster. That was argued to be "heavy devolution". But wouldn't that make Scotland wholly independent?

Well, not if it relied and co-operated with Westminster on defence (cost shared per capita), was still under the Queen and could even share the same currency - or be parallel to it.

There would probably have to be a hard border - especially if Scotland joined Schengen.

The UK is an oddity which doesn't appear elsewhere. Sure other countries have dependencies, but not on this scale. One odd problem would require one unique solution.

 

[Harbornite]

Instead of encouraging School leavers to get into Construction and learn a trade, They told us it is better to go to Uni, get into debt and do a degree in anything. Television study degrees are far better than BTEC's in Building, Plumbing etc.''Yeah right''.

Is "TV studies" even a thing or did you make that up to suit your agenda? With your logic, everyone should be involved in manual trades and no one should do anything else. Yeah, that's gonna work out just fine!

 

[EM2]

Ok I'll concede it could be misleading but that's politics. Replace the word 'Lets' with the words 'We will' and you've got a case!

'Let's' is a contraction of 'Let us', or, if you prefer 'Allow us to'.

 

[Howardh]

Those exact words might not have been on the bus, but what about the posters?

If that read "Antman" and not NHS, how much would he be expecting?

 

[Harbornite]

It's not as pathetic as constantly asking questions that you know cannot be answered on a forum like this, it doesn't matter what I think. I don't have a say in it:roll:

This is silly, you had a say when you voted so you should be able to justify your reasons for voting, as everyone else has done.

 

[VauxhallandI]

My point exactly!
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As was David Cameron's pledge to cut immigration.

Well dodged.

We'll never know now though will we.

I didn't vote him in and to be honest I don't have a problem with the level of immigration.