EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[radamfi]

Farage appears to want to break up the rest of the EU. I think that's out of order. If the rest of the EU want closer union or even just continue as they are then Farage and the UK in general should butt out of it.

 

[anme]

Farage appears to want to break up the rest of the EU. I think that's out of order. If the rest of the EU want closer union or even just continue as they are then Farage and the UK in general should butt out of it.

Farage will no longer be invited to the European Parliament or claim expenses. I wonder if he'll miss Brussels, or if he learnt anything during his time on the continent.

They say that travel broadens the mind. That's generally true. But however far they go, in their minds many English people never leave England. These people seem tragic - even those who don't like England can never escape from it. England is the foundation of their identity, and they use it to build a psychological wall around themselves to keep out anything that's new or different. These people seem deeply terrified of something. I've always wondered what. Maybe they are scared of the fact that being English is not really much different to being Belgian or Czech or Pakistani, and the only part of their identity they are proud of is therefore false. This insecurity manifests itself in many ways, all intended to increase their psychological distance from the rest of the world. This is why, for example, when they are abroad they are rude, get drunk, hang around in aggressive groups and throw chairs at locals while wearing an England football shirt.

Farage strikes me as exactly this kind of person.

In the end, I'm not surprised the English and Welsh voted to leave Europe. Look at our culture. We are Nigel, and Nigel is us. Europe is better off without us.

 

[Mvann]

Yes. It is.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The UK doesn't have the power to issue visas of any kind for the Schengen area, as we are not part of the Schengen area.

Agreed. But as I said, these are the bits of Schengen Agreement that I have no problem with as part of an EEA agreement if we go forward with it. It wasn't meant to be a here and now example. You guys keep asking what do you want from the EU.

 

[anme]

Agreed. But as I said, these are the bits of Schengen Agreement that I have no problem with as part of an EEA agreement if we go forward with it. It wasn't meant to be a here and now example. You guys keep asking what do you want from the EU.

In that case, I apologise - I strongly encourage people to post what they think should happen now.

 

[YorkshireBear]

What was disappointing to hear was Farage's response to the increase in racist incidents.

There have been insults from both sides. I don't think many british people have had their businesses petrol bombed and told to get out of the country. And they are not insults they are racist attacks.... Not comparable.

Not condoning any insults either way but just because some remain voters have insulted leave voters does not condone this behaviour....

 

[Bodiddly]

Fascinating reading about Nigel Farage (depending where you read it of course) Farage does pretty well out of the EU purse in the form of salary and expenses. I'm wondering what role he will fill in British Politics moving forward. Will he be shoe horned into the safest constituency bet of UKIP winning a UK parliamentary seat or will he just become a mouthpiece for UKIP, being wheeled out for political interviews and rabble rousing.
One other guy I hope to see much, much less of is Paul Nuttall. An odious, xenophobic clown, in my humble opinion!

 

[northwichcat]

An expert appearing on a news channel last night said Scotland cannot remain a member of both the UK and the EU if England & Wales leave unless there are significant changes to what power is devolved to Scotland.

A financial expert also appearing said Osborne doesn't need to raise taxes or introduce more spending cuts as quantitative easing could be used instead but in a less capitalist way than Osborne did last time meaning individuals feel the benefits instead of businesses.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Fascinating reading about Nigel Farage (depending where you read it of course) Farage does pretty well out of the EU purse in the form of salary and expenses. I'm wondering what role he will fill in British Politics moving forward. Will he be shoe horned into the safest constituency bet of UKIP winning a UK parliamentary seat or will he just become a mouthpiece for UKIP, being wheeled out for political interviews and rabble rousing.
One other guy I hope to see much, much less of is Paul Nuttall. An odious, xenophobic clown, in my humble opinion!

Is he the bald Scouser? If so, I agree. I was amused to hear Nige the other day giving a speech about how merchant bankers and the political establishment had been sent a message by the victory of Leave... Farage being a former merchant banker and Conservative Party activist and all that.

 

[Senex]

An expert appearing on a news channel last night said Scotland cannot remain a member of both the UK and the EU if England & Wales leave unless there are significant changes to what power is devolved to Scotland.

That seems to be increasingly the common view of the lawyers. They seem to agree that Scotland has no say in the decision of whether and when to invoke Article 50 but does have a right to be consulted about subsequent legislation as it passes through the Westminster parliament.

Unless this is handled very carefully, it will become one more part of the Scottish myth of their oppression by the English (and in this case, in my opinion, justifiably so). Whether anything happens in the near future or not, it seems likely to contribute sooner or later to Scottish independence.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Is he the bald Scouser? If so, I agree. I was amused to hear Nige the other day giving a speech about how merchant bankers and the political establishment had been sent a message by the victory of Leave... Farage being a former merchant banker and Conservative Party activist and all that.

Yep, he's the bald scouser.

Farage was actually a commodities broker. His father was a stockbroker. All very man of the people. As for Boris.... well, that's even more laughable. Can't imagine a man more establishment.

 

[anme]

Yep, he's the bald scouser.

Farage was actually a commodities broker. His father was a stockbroker. All very man of the people. As for Boris.... well, that's even more laughable. Can't imagine a man more establishment.

There are those on the "leave" side who actually think these people will do something good for the "working classes". Is there a single lie they won't believe?

 

[me123]

An expert appearing on a news channel last night said Scotland cannot remain a member of both the UK and the EU if England & Wales leave unless there are significant changes to what power is devolved to Scotland.

I essentially agree with this assessment (although, I am most certainly no expert!).

Scotland will undoubtedly have a referendum on independence. The practicalities of EU membership whilst we remain a member of the UK seem to be too impractical. The EU will be pushing Scotland to join wholeheartedly (join the €uro, join Schengen), and the unique precedent set by the UK membership of the EU is likely not going to be on the table.

Whilst it is early days, and whilst a unique solution could very well be required regardless of what happens, I think to remain a member of the EU Scotland will most likely require independence from the UK. What will be particularly interesting is the Republic of Ireland, and I think that may will dictate what options are open to Scotland.

I ultimately think that Scotland's place in the EU will be best assured by independence.

 

[radamfi]

If the new Prime Minster comes out straight away in September and commits to full EEA membership for the UK, would that satisfy Scots enough to avoid an independence referendum?

 

[EM2]

Two friends of mine, a married couple with two kids under four, are being made redundant because the company that they work for is pulling out of the UK.
Yeah, but Brexit won't affect ordinary people...

 

[northwichcat]

Two friends of mine, a married couple with two kids under four, are being made redundant because the company that they work for is pulling out of the UK.
Yeah, but Brexit won't affect ordinary people...

I've heard one small company in my town (with international clients) are postponing plans to recruit replacement staff for some people who are leaving as well as cancelling plans for additional people due to economic uncertainty.

 

[Howardh]

If the new Prime Minster comes out straight away in September and commits to full EEA membership for the UK, would that satisfy Scots enough to avoid an independence referendum?

Could do, but (just like England) that means paying roughly the same but getting less in return.....eg no veto on Turkey joining the EU.

If Scotland became fiscally independent of the UK (losing the Barnett formula, of course) but stayed in the UK r/e defence and the sovereign, that may well suffice to allow them to remain.

 

[muz379]

If the new Prime Minster comes out straight away in September and commits to full EEA membership for the UK, would that satisfy Scots enough to avoid an independence referendum?

I personally think that if the the euro and schengen are requisite to an independent Scotland joining the EU then a united UK and EEA membership may well turn out to be the preferable option for Scotland and break the back of a leave campaign in any independence referendum that may take place . We saw last time how the issue of currency really was very divisive in the independence referendum of 2014 .

I note Nichola Sturgeon has been a bit quieter of late over the possibility of an independence referendum . Perhaps as the dust has started to settle she has had time to better reflect on the situation .

 

[anme]

I personally think that if the the euro and schengen are requisite to an independent Scotland joining the EU then a united UK and EEA membership may well turn out to be the preferable option for Scotland and break the back of a leave campaign in any independence referendum that may take place . We saw last time how the issue of currency really was very divisive in the independence referendum of 2014 .

I note Nichola Sturgeon has been a bit quieter of late over the possibility of an independence referendum . Perhaps as the dust has started to settle she has had time to better reflect on the situation .

Scottish independence could still be problematic. If the UK remains in the EEA, the discussion is similar to last time. But if the UK leaves the EEA, Scotland would have to have an enforced border with England (as would Northern Ireland and the Republic). A lot depends on things that are still unknown.

Sturgeon won't call a referendum unless she is pretty sure she will win it. It's been suggested this means support for independence at above 60% in opinions polls for an extended length of time.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Two friends of mine, a married couple with two kids under four, are being made redundant because the company that they work for is pulling out of the UK.

Given that precisely nothing has changed legally, and nothing will change for several years, that sounds like the business had already made the decision and are simply looking for an excuse.

Whilst it is early days, and whilst a unique solution could very well be required regardless of what happens, I think to remain a member of the EU Scotland will most likely require independence from the UK. What will be particularly interesting is the Republic of Ireland, and I think that may will dictate what options are open to Scotland.

Scotland are bound to England more than they would like, but it would need to be a total split from England to be able to remain in the EU.

My big concern is the Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland. Already Sinn Fein are sounding out the mood through their An Phoblacht newspaper agitating for a referendum on Northern Ireland merging into the Republic as everyone there wanted to remain in the EU. So far they're not getting that much traction, but if Northern Ireland starts to lose the EU funding that is supporting businesses like Wright Brothers then I can see the mood start to shift. It's a fragile peace in the North and the destructive effect of the loss of EU funding could well be enough to break it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Given that precisely nothing has changed legally, and nothing will change for several years, that sounds like the business had already made the decision and are simply looking for an excuse.

I'd suggest you're probably right.

The more pertinent issue will be the uncertainty of a) understanding what the future trading environment will be (viz EEA, EFTA, WTO or Boris' plan to hope we'll be a special case regarding cake purchase and consumption) and b) the subsequent amount of work to then be fully extricated.

The initial splurge of bad news (shares etc) is probably over. The longer term corrosive effect of businesses potentially sitting on their hands (and their money) to see how things pan out and hence not investing is the bigger issue. To be fair, it's way too early to know what will happen.

 

[lejog]

I personally think that if the the euro and schengen are requisite to an independent Scotland joining the EU then a united UK and EEA membership may well turn out to be the preferable option for Scotland and break the back of a leave campaign in any independence referendum that may take place . We saw last time how the issue of currency really was very divisive in the independence referendum of 2014 .

There may even be advantages for Scotland joining the Euro, depending how far sterling falls. If say that they can join at a level of £1 = 1 Euro, that could be a bargain compared with level when the Euro was established (£1 = 1.45Euro) or at its peak (1.7Euro). A significant permanent devaluation of the currency would aid exports and boost oil tax revenues, at the expense of consumer prices.

 

[LexyBoy]

Given that precisely nothing has changed legally, and nothing will change for several years, that sounds like the business had already made the decision and are simply looking for an excuse.

Or were postponing a decision about their UK business until after the breferendum.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Or were postponing a decision about their UK business until after the breferendum.

I think this is more likely.

 

[yorkie]

The far-right minority (which, thankfully is a very small minority, especially on this forum, a fact we can be proud of) should look at incidents like this and stop and think for a moment about the actions of the far-right:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36638258

Polish boy finds 'leave EU' card

The family of Matteus, 11, from Poland, respond to a card he found suggesting they were "vermin" and that they should "go home".

As for the aforementioned t-shirt incident, claims it is not a big deal are absolutely ludicrous and deeply concerning.

 

[EM2]

Or were postponing a decision about their UK business until after the breferendum.

Whatever the reason for the business deciding as they have, the fact is that they have decided and a young family is facing a very uncertain future.

 

[radamfi]

Stagecoach announced the sale of their Megabus operations in mainland Europe today to Flixbus, who have 70% of the German coach market. That presumably must have been planned before last week but the final decision may have been made depending on the outcome of the vote.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Or were postponing a decision about their UK business until after the breferendum.

Perhaps, but companies don't make decisions like that as a knee-jerk reaction, something like that will have been in the planning for at least 6-12 months. Brexit is a convenient excuse, but IMO they'd be pulling out anyway. Same with Stagecoach: a sale like that will have been planned for months.

It's terrible for the people losing their jobs, but I doubt Brexit is why they're losing them.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Perhaps, but companies don't make decisions like that as a knee-jerk reaction, something like that will have been in the planning for at least 6-12 months. Brexit is a convenient excuse, but IMO they'd be pulling out anyway. Same with Stagecoach: a sale like that will have been planned for months.

It's terrible for the people losing their jobs, but I doubt Brexit is why they're losing them.

Not really. Deals seem to be concluding at a higher rate than usual, and I suspect because they were waiting on which way the referendum went.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Stagecoach announced the sale of their Megabus operations in mainland Europe today to Flixbus, who have 70% of the German coach market. That presumably must have been planned before last week but the final decision may have been made depending on the outcome of the vote.

Stagecoach have a long history of entering markets and then leaving if a) returns aren't as anticipated or b) they get a worthwhile offer that gives a significant premium over the perceived worth of the business in their eyes

Doubt the Brexit had any effect on it

 

[Tetchytyke]

Not really. Deals seem to be concluding at a higher rate than usual, and I suspect because they were waiting on which way the referendum went.

You misunderstand my point.

You don't put deals through just before a big electoral result, investors don't like it, you won't get the interest. But that doesn't mean the electoral result has any material impact on whether the deal does go through. The deals are planned so that they will go through regardless of result. People wishing to cash in now we've voted for Brexit won't be getting their deals through for months yet.

If we'd voted remain Stagecoach would still be selling Megabus Europe to Flixbus, and probably for near-as-damnit the same price.