Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

[Galaxy]

Paperwork updated this week for clearance.

 

[RobShipway]

The CEP and EPB from the EPB Preservation group were based at the EKR are currently finding a new home and while part of the CEP is at eastleigh being deswindonised I believe the EPB is staying only temporarily at the EOR but There was a CIG at EOR now off to ireland to be converted to holiday lets. Also a CIG and a VEP have both been stripped to provide running gear for the 5BEL restoration project.

Www.cep7105.co.uk

Actually checking the site http://www.epbpg.co.uk/ looks like the move to EOR may be permanent.
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Hmm.....

Eden valley railway 2×BEP
Epping Ongar railway CEP 7105 and 2EPB
Chinnor Princes Risborough Railway CEP 1198
Dartmoor 2×CIG
Finmere 1×BIG
Electric Railway Museum Coventry various incl the remaining 210 DEMU car
NRM York and Shildon 2HAP, 2BIL, 4COR
Mid Hants 4TC (I think)
London underground 4TC

Also theres a 4EPB 4SUB a 2DD still in existence wnd this list is by no means exhaustive....

Given that some of the above are complete units, that is why I was asking why a complete class 442 unit could not be kept somewhere?

Someone mentioned that there is already a Mk3 within the NRM collection. Well, lets's take the APT trains as an example. You have the APT-E train within the NRM collection and you have the APT-P train at Crewe. Both trains have the same type of carriages within them with the only difference is that one was used to prove the technology would work, correct me if I am wrong please?

 

[CosherB]

Given that some of the above are complete units, that is why I was asking why a complete class 442 unit could not be kept somewhere?

Someone mentioned that there is already a Mk3 within the NRM collection. Well, lets's take the APT trains as an example. You have the APT-E train within the NRM collection and you have the APT-P train at Crewe. Both trains have the same type of carriages within them with the only difference is that one was used to prove the technology would work, correct me if I am wrong please?

Be thankful that an end carriage is going to be saved. I see no historical reasons why a complete 442 needs to be saved as it was formed from ancient motive equipment fitted into a unit based on existing carriage stock - hardly novel, innovative or a landmark in engineering terms. They're off to Booths or EMR.

 

[swt_passenger]

Be thankful that an end carriage is going to be saved. I see no historical reasons why a complete 442 needs to be saved as it was formed from ancient motive equipment fitted into a unit based on existing carriage stock - hardly novel, innovative or a landmark in engineering terms. They're off to Booths or EMR.

It's possibly arguable that the opportunity to record anyinnovation was when there was still a 4-REP around. Putting all the power to operate a 12 car train into a 4 car tractor unit was probably the bright idea, the later recycling was just BR penny pinching...

 

[Harbornite]

. They're off to Booths or EMR.

Hopefully EMR Kingsbury, then I won't have to go too far to cop them.

 

[D365]

Hopefully EMR Kingsbury, then I won't have to go too far to cop them.

Whereas Booths would suit me better

 

[Harbornite]

Whereas Booths would suit me better

Fine, send half to Booths and half to EMR!

 

[sprinterguy]

Is spotting units that are about to be dispatched into the ether really worth it?

I mean, surely if you just wait a couple of weeks longer after they've been sent to the scrapyards then the problem goes away.

 

[Harbornite]

Is spotting units that are about to be dispatched into the ether really worth it?

I mean, surely if you just wait a couple of weeks longer after they've been sent to the scrapyards then the problem goes away.

Of course it's worth it! I'd rather see them as trains than tin cans!

On a serious note, I won't go out of my way to see these pigs getting scrapped unless they go to Warwickshire and not Yorkshire.

 

[RobShipway]

Of course it's worth it! I'd rather see them as trains than tin cans!

On a serious note, I won't go out of my way to see these pigs getting scrapped unless they go to Warwickshire and not Yorkshire.

I am not go out of my way to see them at either site period, but that is from having travelled on them a good few times in the 1990s. I prefer to remember them as good comfortable trains that used to be on the Weymouth/Bournemouth route into London.

 

[Train wasp]

The CEP and EPB from the EPB Preservation group were based at the EKR are currently finding a new home and while part of the CEP is at eastleigh being deswindonised I believe the EPB is staying only temporarily at the EOR but There was a CIG at EOR now off to ireland to be converted to holiday lets. Also a CIG and a VEP have both been stripped to provide running gear for the 5BEL restoration project.

Www.cep7105.co.uk

Actually checking the site http://www.epbpg.co.uk/ looks like the move to EOR may be permanent.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



Hmm.....

Eden valley railway 2×BEP
Epping Ongar railway CEP 7105 and 2EPB
Chinnor Princes Risborough Railway CEP 1198
Dartmoor 2×CIG
Finmere 1×BIG
Electric Railway Museum Coventry various incl the remaining 210 DEMU car
NRM York and Shildon 2HAP, 2BIL, 4COR
Mid Hants 4TC (I think)
London underground 4TC

Also theres a 4EPB 4SUB a 2DD still in existence wnd this list is by no means exhaustive....

Sorry no 4TC at the Mid Hants.

 

[jonathananders]

I have seen 442424 previously and today i saw 442423, 442422, 442407 and 4424?? at Ely (Papworth Sidings) the uid 442 was behind 47815

Best Wishes

Jonathan

 

[SpacePhoenix]

What would their performance have been like had absolutely all the REP traction equipment (all the motors etc) been re-used on the piggies?

Even if they has a brand new traction package when built would we still have been looking at them getting scrapped now?

 

[RobShipway]

What would their performance have been like had absolutely all the REP traction equipment (all the motors etc) been re-used on the piggies?

Even if they has a brand new traction package when built would we still have been looking at them getting scrapped now?

My view is even if they had brand new traction package when new, they probably would still be in the position they are now with the possibility of being scrapped.

The reason I say possibility of being scrapped is there has not been any official confirmation that they are going to be scrapped as yet.

 

[Harbornite]

My view is even if they had brand new traction package when new, they probably would still be in the position they are now with the possibility of being scrapped.

Indeed, they are non-standard due to their BREL heritage as opposed to the usual Siemens Desiros and Bombardier Electrostars that are used in the South and Southwest.

 

[yorksrob]

There was a CIG at EOR now off to ireland to be converted to holiday lets.

Another working condition slammer soon to be destroyed.

Such a disappointment that none ever seem to make it back to the mainline.

 

[CosherB]

My view is even if they had brand new traction package when new, they probably would still be in the position they are now with the possibility of being scrapped.

The reason I say possibility of being scrapped is there has not been any official confirmation that they are going to be scrapped as yet.

I think the general consensus is that they will be scrapped, unless charter operators pick up the centre carriages. 2018 will be their last year on front line revenue earning service.

 

[aleggatta]

Now that's interesting. I wasn't aware that 442s were cleared for Hove - Havant.

Paperwork updated this week for clearance.

I seem to remember a 10 car 442 dragging a failed MPV that had failed at Lancing... It sticks in my mind as it had to wrong road from Shoreham to lancing to collect the MPV... There's a picture somewhere...

 

[trainmania100]

I seem to remember a 10 car 442 dragging a failed MPV that had failed at Lancing... It sticks in my mind as it had to wrong road from Shoreham to lancing to collect the MPV... There's a picture somewhere...

Was it an MPV or a stone blower?
I think my mate Blake has a video of it, around august September time few years ago I think
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Here it is

https://youtu.be/YXhf6BDLD_w

Smashing video and such a rare catch by my mate Blake
A 10 car 442 dragging a stone blower.

Today's move to Eastleigh was cancelled with 47812 due to braking issues.
Hopefully it will run at the weekend instead

 

[swt_passenger]

What would their performance have been like had absolutely all the REP traction equipment (all the motors etc) been re-used on the piggies?

There were 15 REPS with 8 motors on two power cars each, and 24 442s with 4 motors each, so they would only have had enough spare motors for 5 per unit. Given that the bogie design chosen for the 442 had the four motors under the single power car in the centre of the train, I suggest the 5th motor would have been unusable on a class wide basis because of the control gear being in short supply. It would be fitted on a basis of one or two sets per motor car, so there wouldn't have been enough spare control gear to go round the whole 442 fleet.

If it had been possible to recycle everything presumably they'd have gone for 30 442s?

 

[RichardKing]

It looks like another pair of 442s are being stored in Eastbourne sidings for the time being (alongside the 442s that work the London Bridge peak-time commuter services, of course!).

I recall 2418 and 2424 being stored there a few months ago...I wonder why the sidings are being used again and how long they'll be there for.

Two pairs of 442s in the sidings will make a perfect photo opportunity if, like me, you're a fan! Hopefully, there will be a time over this weekend (probably Sunday) when there the only units occupying the sidings.

 

[43096]

There were 15 REPS with 8 motors on two power cars each, and 24 442s with 4 motors each, so they would only have had enough spare motors for 5 per unit. Given that the bogie design chosen for the 442 had the four motors under the single power car in the centre of the train, I suggest the 5th motor would have been unusable on a class wide basis because of the control gear being in short supply. It would be fitted on a basis of one or two sets per motor car, so there wouldn't have been enough spare control gear to go round the whole 442 fleet.



If it had been possible to recycle everything presumably they'd have gone for 30 442s?

Three REPs were retained for a period after the 442s were introduced so the traction equipment was clearly working. The number of 442s would have been based on what they needed to run the service, and of course what funding was available.

As an aside one of the retained REPs was badly damaged in the Clapham disaster.

 

[spark001uk]

Three REPs were retained for a period after the 442s were introduced so the traction equipment was clearly working. The number of 442s would have been based on what they needed to run the service, and of course what funding was available.

As an aside one of the retained REPs was badly damaged in the Clapham disaster.

As another aside, 2417 was a lucky unit. It collided with a cement mixer at Parkstone and derailed, the day before the Clapham crash. It was booked to work that fateful service in the morning but they had to replace it with REP/TC.

 

[43096]

As another aside, 2417 was a lucky unit. It collided with a cement mixer at Parkstone and derailed, the day before the Clapham crash. It was booked to work that fateful service in the morning but they had to replace it with REP/TC.

Ah yes, I remember reading that.

Of course, if 2417 had worked the train that morning then there would almost certainly be people alive today who are not, due to the Mark 3's superior crashworthiness over a Mark 1.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

As another aside, 2417 was a lucky unit. It collided with a cement mixer at Parkstone and derailed, the day before the Clapham crash. It was booked to work that fateful service in the morning but they had to replace it with REP/TC.

Ah yes, I remember reading that.

Of course, if 2417 had worked the train that morning then there would almost certainly be people alive today who are not, due to the Mark 3's superior crashworthiness over a Mark 1.

http://www.5929.co.uk/railgbgallery16/index26.html

and

http://www.5929.co.uk/railgbgallery16/index27.html

Any further over and it would have probably rolled down the hill, possibly into people's houses

 

[bramling]

Ah yes, I remember reading that.

Of course, if 2417 had worked the train that morning then there would almost certainly be people alive today who are not, due to the Mark 3's superior crashworthiness over a Mark 1.

Another thing is the different type of train might just have arrived at Clapham at a slight earlier or later moment, perhaps with the third train being involved in a less destructive way or even not at all. All down to chance of course.

 

[anthony263]

Suggestion doing the rounds is that GWR could now use some 442's as loco hauled carriages to release some 150's to go to Northern.

Be a case of wait and see if this actually does happen

 

[najaB]

Be a case of wait and see if this actually does happen

My breath is not going to be baited...

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The only place the stored piggies are likely to goto is Booths

 

[yorkie]

My breath is not going to be baited...

I don't see how breath can be baited?!

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Suggestion doing the rounds is that GWR could now use some 442's as loco hauled carriages to release some 150's to go to Northern.

Be a case of wait and see if this actually does happen

Suggestion by whom? If it's not from a reliable senior source within the rail industry, it should be disregarded.

As no source is provided, it will almost certainly not happen.

People often make up silly claims for uses of 442s as part of a joke to see how gullible people are for believing them, and some people try to mention implausible uses for 442s in threads that are totally unrelated.

I really would take all suggestions from unattributed sources with a pinch of salt.