Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Chew Chew]

I don't know about their site specifically, but on most other sites it is two hours.

Cheers.

 

[leomartin125]

A friend of mine went to book a Caledonian Sleeper ticket from Euston to Edinburgh at Reading Station, and got given a seat reservation because he didn't need a berth as a seat would be fine. Come travel day, he turned up at Euston and handed his ticket to the TM for him to check on the platform at Euston, who then stated "you have to book a berth to travel"... Is this true now? You need to book a berth on the Caledonian Sleeper to be eligable to travel?

 

[Bletchleyite]

A friend of mine went to book a Caledonian Sleeper ticket from Euston to Edinburgh at Reading Station, and got given a seat reservation because he didn't need a berth as a seat would be fine. Come travel day, he turned up at Euston and handed his ticket to the TM for him to check on the platform at Euston, who then stated "you have to book a berth to travel"... Is this true now? You need to book a berth on the Caledonian Sleeper to be eligable to travel?

Did he only hand over the ticket, and not the reservation too?

Reservations are compulsory on the Sleeper even in seats.

 

[najaB]

Is this true now? You need to book a berth on the Caledonian Sleeper to be eligable to travel?

No. You need either a seat or berth reservation.

 

[TEW]

The only exception would be if he had a 'Priv' discounted ticket, or was using a free travel 'box', these are not valid in seated accommodation on Caledonian Sleeper services.

 

[Hadders]

Just asked Cally Sleeper on twitter and was told that boarding the sleeper between Kingussie and Inverness and Glasgow and Fort Bill would be at the Train Manager's discretion on a walk up ticket....

That's about right for the useless Serco...

Officially the sleeper is shown as 'Reservations Compulsory' in the timetable.

The useless Serco can't/won't give you a seat reservation between FTW and EDB. They've told me they're not needed and have never been issued (strange that I've had several of them in the years before Serco took over...) Even experienced booking clerks have been unable to obtain seat reservations on the seated sleeper between FTW and EDB for me.

The reality is the seated sleeper is never full between FTW and EDB. It can never be fully booked through from Fort William to Euston as the seated passengers have to join the Aberdeen portion at Edinburgh. If it was fully booked from Fort William then no seated passengers could travel from Aberdeen.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And, unless they've fixed their own ones by now, it's 2+2 seated so there is an entire extra "column" of seats that if filled would not only fill but overbook the Aberdeen.

 

[leomartin125]

The only exception would be if he had a 'Priv' discounted ticket, or was using a free travel 'box', these are not valid in seated accommodation on Caledonian Sleeper services.

Yes, he was using Priv discount with his ATOC card. I guess if you were to buy a Caledonian Sleeper 'PRIV' ticket, you would need to buy a berth reservation as a supplement at full berth price?

 

[TEW]

Yes, I think that is fine. Normally it is cheaper to buy an inclusive Advance ticket which includes travel and a berth, you get 75% Priv discount on these.

 

[Flying Snail]

Yes, I think that is fine. Normally it is cheaper to buy an inclusive Advance ticket which includes travel and a berth, you get 75% Priv discount on these.

The down side of that is unless you have a 1st class Priv you can only get a berth in a shared cabin, not something many on their own would want. This is because CS have quietly dropped the standard solo option.

It isn't explicitly noted in the staff travel notices (the wording states "Overnight Services") but I assume that the priv restriction does not apply to the day services; Fort William - Edinburgh, Kingussie - Inverness.

 

[leomartin125]

The down side of that is unless you have a 1st class Priv you can only get a berth in a shared cabin, not something many on their own would want. This is because CS have quietly dropped the standard solo option.

It isn't explicitly noted in the staff travel notices (the wording states "Overnight Services") but I assume that the priv restriction does not apply to the day services; Fort William - Edinburgh, Kingussie - Inverness.

Can you use the PRIV discount on the 1st Class fares? Would be fine if I got a shared cabin with a mate who paid his way...

 

[Flying Snail]

Can you use the PRIV discount on the 1st Class fares?

Only if you have a 1st class Priv facility.

There is a rather unpleasant whiff of the good old British Class system about it; a lowly waged worker being not good enough to buy a 1st class ticket, only railway managers and above are refined enough to mix with the toffs.

 

[TEW]

The down side of that is unless you have a 1st class Priv you can only get a berth in a shared cabin, not something many on their own would want. This is because CS have quietly dropped the standard solo option.

It isn't explicitly noted in the staff travel notices (the wording states "Overnight Services") but I assume that the priv restriction does not apply to the day services; Fort William - Edinburgh, Kingussie - Inverness.

Yes. That's very annoying. They dropped Standard Solo just about the same time they made it far easier to book Priv discounted sleeper fares by allowing to be bought online. I've used a Priv ticket on the seated section from Aviemore to Inverness with no problems.

 

[Fishplate84]

All this talk of using railway privilege tickets and working around the rules to get a cheap fare.
Maybe it's a sign that Serco are making headway on bringing the sleeper into a wider public consciousness that standard solo's have disappeared - the trains are now getting greater use and on a very very finitely capacity constrained service (there is only a fixed number of berths that can be sold each night, no 'pile 'em high' possible like a day train) yield is paramount and they can fill the seated, shared and 1st capacity much better than ever before there's no incentive to chase lower yield options just to get people to use it.
I used to think it really desperate that bargain berths had to be offered at £20 or £30, for an 8 hour train journey with so obviously high running costs with all the staff needed on train and limited capacity. If people only used it if it was so lowly priced, they really didn't value it. They're better off punted onto the overnight coaches that are properly slow and uncomfortable.

It must be what transport Scotland wants too because it is TS who ultimately pick up the bill for the financial gap between farebox revenue and operating cost - why would they be interested in subsidising an army of industry concession customers? TS wants it to be an integral part of the tourism portfolio and to support Scottish business, not be a backwater curio filled with railway enthusiasts paying next to nothing.
For the benefits it's use gives you its pretty good value, far more so than many 'premium price' mainline day services trading on speed as their primary value driver.

Personally, I think Serco are doing a great job ureinvigorating a service that for so long was teetering on the edge. More conventional operators haven't done anything more than keep it on life support since privatisation, same goes for BR for a long time before that.

 

[najaB]

Maybe it's a sign that Serco are making headway on bringing the sleeper into a wider public consciousness that standard solo's have disappeared - the trains are now getting greater use and on a very very finitely capacity constrained service (there is only a fixed number of berths that can be sold each night, no 'pile 'em high' possible like a day train) yield is paramount and they can fill the seated, shared and 1st capacity much better than ever before there's no incentive to chase lower yield options just to get people to use it.

I've no problem with removing the solo supplement, but I think they've got it wrong pricing the shared supplement at the same price as the First Class. There are a lot of people - me included - who would pay £40 for a shared berth, but £75 is just too much. Simple maths on the capacity v revenue front: 2 x £40 > 1 x £75.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've no problem with removing the solo supplement

Personally I think it should be a Standard only train with a supplement to each "class" of accommodation - twin or single - rather than ever requiring a 1st ticket.

Mind you, if we ever do move to single-fare pricing on IC routes (at least, I can see the CDR staying) that basically removes any need for any acceptance of ATOC/RSP tickets, they might as well just go "global fare" then, and stop calling it First Class so companies aren't put off it.

 

[BRX]

the trains are now getting greater use

Are they - are there numbers to support this? Does Serco release occupancy rates?

(If it's true, of course that's a good thing)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wouldn't surprise me if only because it's now a lot easier to book! Used to be a right nightmare, I've not bothered before (a number of years ago) because booking it was such a nuisance.

 

[BRX]

It's easier to book (an improvement for sure) but has also become more expensive.

 

[47271]

Indeed there is some disgruntlement amongst the regulars: Flexipass has been put up in price TWICE in the past six months, firstly from £1310 to £1400, and now again to £1500 - a 14.5% increase overall.

 

[BRX]

Indeed there is some disgruntlement amongst the regulars: Flexipass has been put up in price TWICE in the past six months, firstly from £1310 to £1400, and now again to £1500 - a 14.5% increase overall.

Are the sleeper fares unregulated - can Serco charge what they like?

 

[Essexman]

Indeed there is some disgruntlement amongst the regulars: Flexipass has been put up in price TWICE in the past six months, firstly from £1310 to £1400, and now again to £1500 - a 14.5% increase overall.

I hadn't seen that. It is disappointing.
I buy a Flexipass about once a year, mainly for work use.
At £300 for a return trip it becomes more difficult to justify using the sleeper when air is so much cheaper. Not that I intend using air but I might do more day journeys.

 

[paul1609]

Indeed I'm a weekend commuter from Garelochhead to Romney Marsh most of next year I'll be looking to pay 140 to 170 gbp per weekend for return flights and weekend car hire. 300 plus southeastern fare is just fantasy pricing

 

[Hadders]

Well, since the useless Serco took over we've seen:

- appalling reliability
- removal of solo berths supplements for standard ticket holders (the exact opposite of the Night Riviera)
- huge increase in berth supplement fees
- refusal to accept ALRs on their last day of validity
- refusal to recognise Scottish Local Routeing Guide Easements
- removal of Advance fares on the sated sleeper between Fort William and Glasgow/Edinburgh
- no seat reservation on the seated service between Fort William and Glasgow/Edinburgh despite the service being 'Reservations Compulsory'.

Anyone might think they didn't want to be part of 'National Rail'.

 

[6Z09]

With regard to Serco hiring their own Guards, I see a Train Manager post Advertised, is this the start of it or is a Train Manager a differ post altogether?

 

[Marklund]

Well, since the useless Serco took over we've seen:

- appalling reliability
- removal of solo berths supplements for standard ticket holders (the exact opposite of the Night Riviera)
- huge increase in berth supplement fees
- refusal to accept ALRs on their last day of validity
- refusal to recognise Scottish Local Routeing Guide Easements
- removal of Advance fares on the sated sleeper between Fort William and Glasgow/Edinburgh
- no seat reservation on the seated service between Fort William and Glasgow/Edinburgh despite the service being 'Reservations Compulsory'.

Anyone might think they didn't want to be part of 'National Rail'.

All with the oversight of Transport Scotland, who report to a party who don't want to be "National"
Are you surprised?

 

[NamelessPoster]

All with the oversight of Transport Scotland, who report to a party who don't want to be "National"
Are you surprised?

Or do we blame the staunch unionist company run by Tory Rupert Soames (Winston Churchill's grandson). This isn't a Scottish Nationalist problem it is avproblem that runs throughout thr British Rail Network.

 

[tellytype]

I've just priced a return trip for business, but taking the Mrs & hound with me to make the most of the relaxation on the train, supposedly. £765 return, out one day back the day after next and they won't even give us the same berth on the website as they have none available. Add that to a £200 return to get to Euston from my local station & £40 of parking at said station & you're heading upwards of a grand before one factors in a hotel the next night & food etc.

When you consider I can hire a Cessna 172 for 3 days, fly us to Edinburgh myself, pay landing fees, parking, hotel & meals for just short of £650 all in....or I can drive it for about £210 in fuel....is it any wonder people don't take the bloody train?

 

[47271]

I've just priced a return trip for business, but taking the Mrs & hound with me to make the most of the relaxation on the train, supposedly. £765 return, out one day back the day after next and they won't even give us the same berth on the website as they have none available. Add that to a £200 return to get to Euston from my local station & £40 of parking at said station & you're heading upwards of a grand before one factors in a hotel the next night & food etc.

When you consider I can hire a Cessna 172 for 3 days, fly us to Edinburgh myself, pay landing fees, parking, hotel & meals for just short of £650 all in....or I can drive it for about £210 in fuel....is it any wonder people don't take the bloody train?

I'm assuming First Class? I've only got one helpful suggestion.

So that's four single journeys in two adjoining cabins, I don't know about the 'hound' nowadays, I think that Serco are reducing the fee for dogs. And remember you don't have to be ready to go until just before midnight and you'll be in for 8am.

You could buy a ten journey Flexipass for £1500, let £600 of it go on this trip and still have six single trips in hand for whatever takes your fancy over the next year: Inverness, Aviemore, Kingussie, Pitlochry, Fort William, Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow...

I've no idea about the £200 to get you to Euston, or the parking, but the sleeper isn't that expensive for business for those who know that they're going to make ten trips in a year. But I know, it's just so so expensive for those making a casual enquiry a few days before travel.

 

[TimboM]

Does anyone know what happened to last night's Down Lowland Sleeper (1S26)? Appears to have failed just outside Birmingham and then been rescued after c.3 hours?

Passengers on board complaining of cold, so also assuming rescue loco didn't have ETH?