Edinburgh Tram developments

[swt class 450]

Lothian Buses only accept exact change, so. I'm not sure why you'd expect the tram to be any different.

So do you mean exact fare only even when you buy from the bus driver? How does that work? That sounds like an awful system. I have never known of bus companies doing that. On every bus i have been on in the UK the driver always gives you change.

 

[cf111]

So do you mean exact fare only even when you buy from the bus driver? How does that work? That sounds like an awful system. I have never known of bus companies doing that. On every bus i have been on in the UK the driver always gives you change.

First Aberdeen do this as well, basically either have exact change or if you put more into the hopper you lose the extra - it annoyed me when I lived there.

I can't really see a valid argument for not having a ticket machine give you change - I can vaguely see it with a bus driver in that it saves time but that doesn't wash with a machine.

 

[swt class 450]

First Aberdeen do this as well, basically either have exact change or if you put more into the hopper you lose the extra - it annoyed me when I lived there.

I can't really see a valid argument for not having a ticket machine give you change - I can vaguely see it with a bus driver in that it saves time but that doesn't wash with a machine.

That sounds like a very inconvinient system. I am very glad that none of my local bus operators do that. It certainly doesnt sound very customer friendly. It almost seems like a bit of a scam. As for Edinburgh Tram TVMs not giving change i cant really see why either. All other Tram TVMs in the UK give change.

 

[edwin_m]

Nottingham City Transport doesn't give change either.

 

[Butts]

The Edinburgh Tram fares to the Airport are absoulutely rediculous. They seem to be trying to copy the same exact rediculous scams that Heathrow Express use.

Fares to anywhere other than Edinburgh Airport.
Single - £1.60
Return - £3.20
Day Ticket - £4.00

Fares to Edinburgh Airport.
Single - £5.50
Return - £8.50
Day Ticket - £9.00

Passengers can avoid the rediculous prices by walking from Edinburgh Airport to Ingliston which is a short 20 minute walk. Of course they dont like to tell people this.

Another point about the Edinburgh Trams is that they have possibly the worst TVMs in the UK. They only accept coins and cards. They do not accept banknotes and even worse they do not even give change! What are passengers meant to do if they dont have the exact fare on them? Or if they only have banknotes on them? Edinburgh Trams are basically running scams to try to get more money out of people!

I see that they say that everyone without a ticket is charged an "on board fare" of £10. Is this is a Single or Return or Day Ticket? I guess their aim is to make it so hard to purchase a ticket before you board so that more people will buy these.

Do I get a sense of deja vu here :roll:

Just as well the forum does not operate with the rules of "Just a Minute" on Radio 4 - rediculous

 

[Mordac]

The reason it's done on the buses is to reduce stop dwell times. It saves a lot of time if the driver doesn't have to hand over change. However, it requires passengers to be vaguely aware that this is the policy, which means it doesn't do much during the festival, but works well the rest of the year.

 

[gsnedders]

The add on for Edinburgh Airport for those holding a valid rail ticket is £4.00 single or £7.00 return. Valid on either the tram or express service 100.

Except there's no railcard discounts on those fares, seemingly. From my local station, it's £18.50 for an anytime single to Edinburgh Airport or £9.50 to Edinburgh Park with a 16–25 railcard! :\
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Lothian Buses only accept exact change, so. I'm not sure why you'd expect the tram to be any different.

Is it possible to get change for the trams when you've arrived at the airport? I frequently enough have almost no coins when I arrive back in the UK (I try to avoid lugging them around!), which makes exact-fare only things a pain. With the buses at least the ticket office will happily give change, even though the buses won't on-board.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The reason it's done on the buses is to reduce stop dwell times. It saves a lot of time if the driver doesn't have to hand over change. However, it requires passengers to be vaguely aware that this is the policy, which means it doesn't do much during the festival, but works well the rest of the year.

In most places I'm aware of it's partly down to theft risk—it's essentially put into a locked box immediately, which the driver cannot open.

 

[cb a1]

Lothian Buses only accept exact change, so. I'm not sure why you'd expect the tram to be any different.

Not quite correct. One service at least, the Lothian Buses Airlink Service (which is also cheaper and usually quicker into the City Centre than the tram) does give change.

 

[asylumxl]

Not quite correct. One service at least, the Lothian Buses Airlink Service (which is also cheaper and usually quicker into the City Centre than the tram) does give change.

Being quicker is debatable. Also, the Airlink is only ever so slightly cheaper.

 

[cb a1]

So do you mean exact fare only even when you buy from the bus driver? How does that work? That sounds like an awful system. I have never known of bus companies doing that. On every bus i have been on in the UK the driver always gives you change.

Edinburgh - Lothian Buses
Glasgow - First Group
Aberdeen - First Group
Dundee - National Express
Reading - Reading Buses
Nottingham - Nottingham City Transport
Swindon - Thamesdown
Cardiff - Cardiff Bus
Ipswich - Ipswich Buses (in town services)
Newport
Preston
... you get the idea.

It's a fairly common system in many cities and towns in the UK. I find it's a royal PITA (I rarely carry loose change) and is one of the reasons I tend to take my bike if I'm visiting other cities.

 

[Butts]

Is it possible to get change for the trams when you've arrived at the airport? I frequently enough have almost no coins when I arrive back in the UK (I try to avoid lugging them around!), which makes exact-fare only things a pain. With the buses at least the ticket office will happily give change, even though the buses won't on-board.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You can pay by card at the ticket machines for the Tram.

 

[cf111]

Do I get a sense of deja vu here :roll:

Just as well the forum does not operate with the rules of "Just a Minute" on Radio 4 - rediculous

*buzz* - deviation from the English language

 

[90019]

So do you mean exact fare only even when you buy from the bus driver? How does that work? That sounds like an awful system. I have never known of bus companies doing that. On every bus i have been on in the UK the driver always gives you change.

It works pretty well because it's a flat fare system, so it's £1.60 for any distance on one bus, and the fares are shown above the timetables at every stop.

 

[sng7]

Lothian Buses and Edinburgh trams also allow you to purchase tickets on your phone removing the exact fare problem if you want. Also I find the no change system works well when there is a flat fare in my opinion, such as Lothian who clearly advertise it at all bus stops and on the front of the buses, it doesn't work in cases such as first in Aberdeen when you don't know what the fare will be in advance.

 

[Butts]

Lothian Buses and Edinburgh trams also allow you to purchase tickets on your phone removing the exact fare problem if you want. Also I find the no change system works well when there is a flat fare in my opinion, such as Lothian who clearly advertise it at all bus stops and on the front of the buses, it doesn't work in cases such as first in Aberdeen when you don't know what the fare will be in advance.

Do First East of Scotland still give change in Edinburgh ?

 

[overthewater]

Do First East of Scotland still give change in Edinburgh ?

Only on the No38 to Falkirk and the two border services, Livingston is still exact Fare, I believe there still dont like that policy for that depot.

* East of Scotland name is now gone to history books, Its now

* Midland Bluebird
* Border
* West Lothian

 

[Butts]

Only on the No38 to Falkirk and the two border services, Livingston is still exact Fare, I believe there still dont like that policy for that depot.

* East of Scotland name is now gone to history books, Its now

* Midland Bluebird
* Border
* West Lothian

Mind you I suppose it is much easier to do exact money only when you have a fixed fare as they do in a lot of Metropolitan Areas such as Birmingham and Edinburgh.

 

[reb0118]

Except there's no railcard discounts on those fares, seemingly. From my local station, it's £18.50 for an anytime single to Edinburgh Airport or £9.50 to Edinburgh Park with a 16–25 railcard! :\
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Is it possible to get change for the trams when you've arrived at the airport? I frequently enough have almost no coins when I arrive back in the UK (I try to avoid lugging them around!), which makes exact-fare only things a pain. With the buses at least the ticket office will happily give change, even though the buses won't on-board.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


In most places I'm aware of it's partly down to theft risk—it's essentially put into a locked box immediately, which the driver cannot open.

Then buy the tickets in two transactions. Firstly buy a discounted ticket to Edinburgh, Haymarket, Edinburgh Park, & from December 11th, Edinburgh Gateway as appropriate. Then, purchase the "add on" from Edinburgh to Edinburgh Airport. This can be sold as a separate fare (as long as you hold a valid rail ticket to one of the above stations) and is valid for interchange at any of the ajacient tram halts (St Andrew Square for the Waverley).

Re. exact fare & change. You can receive a change voucher on Lothian Buses that you can redeem at any of their travel shops. Alternatively some drivers will allow you to ask your fellow travellers for change, or exceptionally may allow you to get change from any future passenger with a shrapnel overload.

I am not sure if the tram TVM will offer a "credit note"?

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[DaveNewcastle]

It works pretty well because it's a flat fare system, so it's £1.60 for any distance on one bus, and the fares are shown above the timetables at every stop.

I was recently told by a passenger on Edinburgh's one-per-hour service No 13 that it was the only remaning service where pax could buy on board and receive change. Is that no longer correct (or was there never an exception for the No 13)?

 

[90019]

I think the only buses that give change in Edinburgh are the Airlink, the Stagecoach services (which are a nightmare to get stuck behind in the city centre) and the 13.

I'm not sure if the 13 gave change when Lothian were running it.

 

[oldman]

I'm not sure if the 13 gave change when Lothian were running it.

It didn't and it doesn't on its own supported services.

 

[Mojo]

West Midlands don't give change either. I think it's an excellent idea provided fares are simple (i.e. 2 or maybe 3 different single fares, clearly publicised in advance). Nothing worse than getting on a bus with someone trying to describe to the driver where they are going and then paying with a huge note. Hop on, "one fifty please" and away you go.

 

[me123]

^ You need to have reasonable options for passengers when you don't give change, though. And that simply hasn't existed until recently.

Sorry, but I don't always have £1.85 to hand in exact coinage. The only places most people get coins is in change, very few normal people get them from the bank (although I have done so in the past - whether or not I'm normal is a matter for debate!). Any times I've traveled by bus, I've had to go out my way to manipulate the change in my pocket to ensure I have what the bus driver wants. And that just puts me off using the bus. If I only have a fiver then I'm possibly going to be out of pocket through no fault of my own.

Having mobile phone apps, smart cards and contactless payments makes the whole thing much better. You can abolish change on buses, whilst giving passengers plenty of opportunities to buy their ticket without cash.

 

[Butts]

^ You need to have reasonable options for passengers when you don't give change, though. And that simply hasn't existed until recently.

Sorry, but I don't always have £1.85 to hand in exact coinage. The only places most people get coins is in change, very few normal people get them from the bank (although I have done so in the past - whether or not I'm normal is a matter for debate!). Any times I've traveled by bus, I've had to go out my way to manipulate the change in my pocket to ensure I have what the bus driver wants. And that just puts me off using the bus. If I only have a fiver then I'm possibly going to be out of pocket through no fault of my own.

Having mobile phone apps, smart cards and contactless payments makes the whole thing much better. You can abolish change on buses, whilst giving passengers plenty of opportunities to buy their ticket without cash.

Indeed that is a mute point !!!

Seriously you could put a couple of quid in and donate the 15p

 

[dcsprior]

Seriously you could put a couple of quid in and donate the 15p

This has made me wonder, what happens to any overpayment. Do Lothian (and other bus companies who operate an exact fare system) donate any extra that's in the fare box over and above what the ticket machine expects to charity? If so, that's a nice touch.

 

[me123]

Seriously you could put a couple of quid in and donate the 15p

I wouldn't mind giving 15p to a good cause, but I don't consider First Group or Stagecoach to be that!

 

[HA25322]

I don't mind apps for this but again I dont agree to the fact that I believe the App for the Edinburgh trams has a minimum spend of £10.00 I believe. Although it has been awhile since I last looked at it so correct me if I am wrong. So if you are there for a few days then fair enough but if you are only going for one day it is again no use.

 

[swt class 450]

Personally i think that this exact fare no change policy on buses sounds absoulutely terrible. You cant expect people to always have the exact fare on them. Why should they have to overpay. I am surprised that this is even legal. You wouldnt get shops or trains doing this so why should buses or trams. I have been on buses in very busy cities and towns and they dont seem to have any problem or much delay with giving change. I personally think that the real reason is to scam passengers in to paying extra.

 

[Zoidberg]

Personally i think that this exact fare no change policy on buses sounds absoulutely terrible. You cant expect people to always have the exact fare on them. Why should they have to overpay. I am surprised that this is even legal. You wouldnt get shops or trains doing this so why should buses or trams. I have been on buses in very busy cities and towns and they dont seem to have any problem or much delay with giving change. I personally think that the real reason is to scam passengers in to paying extra.

It works! Edinburgh has been "exact fare" for years. It becomes second nature to have the correct change ready.

As mentioned above, it probably works so well since it's a flat fare regime, no need to try to work out how much the journey is going to cost.

 

[Butts]

It works! Edinburgh has been "exact fare" for years. It becomes second nature to have the correct change ready.

As mentioned above, it probably works so well since it's a flat fare regime, no need to try to work out how much the journey is going to cost.

Well you must be a youngster because your own area has being doing it far longer than Edinburgh.

It must be over 20 years for West Midlands Travel and all it's successors