33Hz
Member
- Joined
- 2 Dec 2010
- Messages
- 513
Seems like the beyond Newbury, Didcot-Oxford and Reading-Gatwick use cases would be ideal for the class 769.
Are you saying that 387s are not being used to Newbury but bimodes are being used on the locals? Didn't realise 800s were designed as commuter stock. If so why are Turbos also required for use beyond Newbury.The IEPs otherwise known as class 800/802 would be used. Variously they would run as electric to Didcot, diesel to Oxford and beyond. Electric to somewhere past Swindon and Diesel to Bath and Bristol TM. Also electric to Cardiff, diesel to Swansea and electric to Newbury, diesel beyond. With the need to retain a fleet of 165/166 for Thames Valley branches and Reading to Gatwick, "local" services beyond Newbury might also use these.
HSTs are used on many GWR commuter schedules. Some rate the whole GWML to Bristol as a commuter line nowadays. Perhaps wires to Bedwyn could have been done, but all GW IETs had to be made bi-mode anyway and that makes that consideration academic.Are you saying that 387s are not being used to Newbury but bimodes are being used on the locals? Didn't realise 800s were designed as commuter stock. If so why are Turbos also required for use beyond Newbury.
Organisational British cock-up being exercised again instead of finishing electrification at a more sensible junction station like Westbury rather than Newbury just for the sake of a couple of dozen miles of electrification.
But it is not academic. 387s are cheaper to build, operate and maintain than 800s. This differential would have funded electrification to Bedwyn or even Westbury in no time where 387s could have been used instead.HSTs are used on many GWR commuter schedules. Some rate the whole GWML to Bristol as a commuter line nowadays. Perhaps wires to Bedwyn could have been done, but all GW IETs had to be made bi-mode anyway and that makes that consideration academic.
Repeated Newbury-Bedwyn-Newbury only on diesel is going to cause accelerated engine wear.IETs will be used on Padd - Bedwyns (with requisite extension to Bedwyn Turnback Siding), 387s on Reading - Newbury services.
Repeated Newbury-Bedwyn-Newbury only on diesel is going to cause accelerated engine wear.
Repeated Newbury-Bedwyn-Newbury only on diesel is going to cause accelerated engine wear.
If you had carefully read #6368 and #6369 you would have understood but I will spell it out for you.Repeated Newbury-Bedwyn-Newbury only on diesel is going to cause accelerated engine wear.
Read #6372 aboveWhat do you mean?
The services worked by the IETs will run from Paddington to Bedwyn and then return to Paddington - as JN114 said - using 25kv power for most of each run.
There isn't going to be a set shuttling up and down between Newbury and Bedwyn all day - the idea of a Turbo shuttle, connecting with 387s at Newbury, has been ditched in favour of using Class 800s to maintain through trains for Bedwyn. This was made possible by the order for seven extra 9-car 802s, which will allow some five-car 800s to be reallocated to other duties, including Paddington-Bedwyns.
If you had carefully read #6368 and #6369 you would have understood but I will spell it out for you.
It is nothing like Didcot-Oxford-Didcot as that will be wired shortly and nothing like Cardiff-Swansea-Cardiff as you are comparing 30 mile round trip with 100 miles.
The maximum wear to an internal combustion engine is starting from cold to operating temperature and repeated cycles. A Paddington-Bedwyn 800 has to start engines from cold at Newbury and travel 14 miles to Bedwyn where engines will only just have reached operating temperature. After a shortish layover the train returns 14 miles to Newbury where engines are switched off. The engines are then rapidly cooled and contracted in a 100mph+ airflow. Metal does not like being treated this way and leads to catastrophic failure. All for the sake of an additional 14 miles of electrification.
Got it?
If you had carefully read #6368 and #6369 you would have understood but I will spell it out for you.
It is nothing like Didcot-Oxford-Didcot as that will be wired shortly and nothing like Cardiff-Swansea-Cardiff as you are comparing 30 mile round trip with 100 miles.
The maximum wear to an internal combustion engine is starting from cold to operating temperature and repeated cycles. A Paddington-Bedwyn 800 has to start engines from cold at Newbury and travel 14 miles to Bedwyn where engines will only just have reached operating temperature. After a shortish layover the train returns 14 miles to Newbury where engines are switched off. The engines are then rapidly cooled and contracted in a 100mph+ airflow. Metal does not like being treated this way and leads to catastrophic failure. All for the sake of an additional 14 miles of electrification.
Got it?
If you had carefully read #6368 and #6369 you would have understood but I will spell it out for you.
It is nothing like Didcot-Oxford-Didcot as that will be wired shortly and nothing like Cardiff-Swansea-Cardiff as you are comparing 30 mile round trip with 100 miles.
The maximum wear to an internal combustion engine is starting from cold to operating temperature and repeated cycles. A Paddington-Bedwyn 800 has to start engines from cold at Newbury and travel 14 miles to Bedwyn where engines will only just have reached operating temperature. After a shortish layover the train returns 14 miles to Newbury where engines are switched off. The engines are then rapidly cooled and contracted in a 100mph+ airflow. Metal does not like being treated this way and leads to catastrophic failure. All for the sake of an additional 14 miles of electrification.
Got it?
The sparks effect is well recorded.That these BCR calculations are so damaging to possible electrification projects, causes me to wonder how the extensive electrification I observe, when I travel on the mainland, even on rural lines, was ever justified. I am sure that demand on the Bath to Westbury line (and indeed that from Bristol to Bath) is suppressed at present, due to inadequate performance and poor capacity. This makes we wonder whether the BCR contains any component of increased business. I am certain that sparks would increase patronage substantially.
The sparks effect is well recorded.
I am certain that sparks would increase patronage substantially.
387s are cheaper to build, operate and maintain than 800s. This differential would have funded electrification to Bedwyn or even Westbury in no time where 387s could have been used instead.
Would lighter knitting and masts reduce the cost by any worthwhile amount?
Despite being very visible I doubt the amount of metal in the kit makes more than a few percent difference to the scheme. And even if you halved the cost of the OLE, feeders, signalling, structures, design, TOC compensation and everything else (from the original figures which have now drastically increased) the BCR would only go from 0.22 to 0.44 which is still way below what the government will pay for.Would lighter knitting and masts reduce the cost by any worthwhile amount?
London Overground extending down to the B&H are they? Interesting.No, they wouldn't, certainly in the case of beyond Newbury - where we already know that the Paddington-Bedwyn services, and presumably some peak extensions from/to Westbury and Frome will be worked by IETs, along with the semi-fast services between Paddington and Exeter - and Didcot to Oxford where common sense should prevail by some point in Control Period 6, with the electrification completed to Oxford, so the 378s can be fully used in the way planned when they were ordered.
Now that Paddington Didcot seems to be live what's the next bit likely to be energised and when?
K
Didcot to Cardiff next Christmas.