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Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

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Mingulay

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LNW-GW Joint said:
Amusing that the Scotsman piece uses the original mock-up PR image with a full cab rather than a gangwayed front end.
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But what a good looking iconic statement they would have been as a flagship train. If only...instead , the bug eyed beast from the east that needs new specs !
 
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JDG

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How’s about some class 332,as a stop gap, being withdrawn from Heathrow Express. A great, futuristic looking train.
 
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gingertom

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JDG said:
How’s about some class 332,as a stop gap, being withdrawn from Heathrow Express. A great, futuristic looking train.
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at 23m per car there would need to be some unit reforms to fit Glasgow Queen Street. They aren't currently off-lease so unavailable, unlike the 365s. But on the plus side they are Siemens so I'd expect Shields Road to hit the ground running with the maintenance alongside the 380 fleet.
 
D365

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gingertom said:
at 23m per car there would need to be some unit reforms to fit Glasgow Queen Street.
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As are the 380/385s?.

But on the plus side they are Siemens so I'd expect Shields Road to hit the ground running with the maintenance alongside the 380 fleet.
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Are they? I didn't think they share a significant lineage with the Desiros.

The modifications required to make the 332s suitable for use away from Heathrow have been extensively debated.
 
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gingertom

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D365 said:
As are the 380/385s?.
Are they? I didn't think they share a significant lineage with the Desiros.
The modifications required to make the 332s suitable for use away from Heathrow have been extensively debated.
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380/385 are 3 & 4 car sets. 332 same size of car and formed into 4s and 5s so some car removal needed. Once GLQ platforms are sorted the 5s and pairs of 4s become an option but the small fleet size (9 of each 4 and 5) limits the amount of benefit we could get.
Not seen the mods needed, must do some more research. All adds to time before they can be in service on the E&G, something we don't have much of if a temporary fix is to be seamless.
 
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gingertom

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if that's the case it makes these a non-starter.
just reminded by a pic of the 332, they have curved windscreens. But no gangways.
 
hexagon789

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Steven_G

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The footage was at night. And why would there be a resumption of testing if the problem was still there? I think there is a workaround in place somehow. Perhaps it's as simple as a tint on the glass.
 
Domh245

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Do also remember that the DB Cargo drivers who are doing the initial testing seemed to shrug off the problem, it was only the Scotrail drivers that put their foot down and refused to drive them. Presumably the run will have just been a test run for Hitachi, crewed by DBC, testing something or other, after all there is still plenty of things to calibrate, and commission on the trains beyond the windscreen.
 
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Steven_G

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I understand but the footage showed it stopping at Croy briefly. Looked to me like a timetable run.
 
Domh245

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They have to stop the train at stations to test certain systems like the Selective Door Open.
 
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scotraildriver

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Domh245 said:
Do also remember that the DB Cargo drivers who are doing the initial testing seemed to shrug off the problem, it was only the Scotrail drivers that put their foot down and refused to drive them. Presumably the run will have just been a test run for Hitachi, crewed by DBC, testing something or other, after all there is still plenty of things to calibrate, and commission on the trains beyond the windscreen.
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Scotrail drivers didn't "refuse." A test run took place between Glasgow and Paisley where Hitachi invited Scotrail drivers, union officials and staff from Scotrail ops standards to try out the new train. EVERYONE agreed there was a serious issue. There is no industrial unrest or disagreement between unions and Scotrail. No one is "refusing" to drive them and Scotrail is not asking anyone to. All parties are in agreement that the current issue is unacceptable and must be resolved before the train enters service.
 
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gsnedders

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scotraildriver said:
Scotrail drivers didn't "refuse." A test run took place between Glasgow and Paisley where Hitachi invited Scotrail drivers, union officials and staff from Scotrail ops standards to try out the new train. EVERYONE agreed there was a serious issue. There is no industrial unrest or disagreement between unions and Scotrail. No one is "refusing" to drive them and Scotrail is not asking anyone to. All parties are in agreement that the current issue is unacceptable and must be resolved before the train enters service.
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Do we know why the DBC drivers are continuing to drive them when everyone is apparently in agreement the current issue is unacceptable and unsafe, AIUI?
 
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scotraildriver

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Most likely as the test runs are double manned. I believe there was an agreement to allow the trains to run with 2 drivers, but that would rely on drivers working their days off and that would rely on enough people volunteering every day, which obviously isn't guaranteed and could result in an unreliable and unpredictable service.
 
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Goldfish62

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Bletchleyite said:
:D

In all seriousness there are enough spare EMUs of various kinds and will be yet more soon. They just need to pick which ones, get them leased, get the staff trained and get them into service.
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319s would appear to be the closest to current ScotRail stock (320s). How many are uncommitted and can they be reduced to three cars?
 
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Goldfish62 said:
319s would appear to be the closest to current ScotRail stock (320s). How many are uncommitted and can they be reduced to three cars?
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Isn't it sad sorting it either temporary or permanent or finding alternative emus is taking so long.
In times long gone the CME would call in his chief draughtman and have it sorted in no time. Also in times long gone an emu shuffle would be imposed and suitable units like the 321 315 etc moved north.
K
 
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Goldfish62 said:
319s would appear to be the closest to current ScotRail stock (320s). How many are uncommitted and can they be reduced to three cars?
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IIRC all 4 cars have essential technical equipment: 2x driving trailers, a pantograph / traction car and a 4th trailer. A lot of work (= a lot of money) is needed to move the compressors and stuff from the 4th vehicle to one of the others. Evens out the weight distribution a bit.
321s would be nearer a 320 and indeed some have made their way north without the 4th vehicle an reclassified as 320s.
 
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Goldfish62 said:
319s would appear to be the closest to current ScotRail stock (320s). How many are uncommitted and can they be reduced to three cars?
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Why do they need to be like current Scotrail stock and be reduced to 3 car? Both those factors are irrelevant on the E&G which is where any sourced stock will be used.
 
Clansman

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170401 said:
Why do they need to be like current Scotrail stock and be reduced to 3 car? Both those factors are irrelevant on the E&G which is where any sourced stock will be used.
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The user was proposing using 319s in order to release 380s onto the EG. Any such eventuality of rolling stock displacing 380s would greatly benefit being of a similar build to existing EMUs on the route, hence why we have seen this idea already tried and tested when a couple of 321s were cascaded up here then converted to 320s (given 4-car units would eliminate multiple working due to 6-car limited platform lengths). It's not a bad idea, and the 3 car proposal is very much relevant to the user's suggestion.
 
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170401

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Clansman said:
The user was proposing using 319s in order to release 380s onto the EG. Any such eventuality of rolling stock displacing 380s would greatly benefit being of a similar build to existing EMUs on the route, hence why we have seen this idea already tried and tested when a couple of 321s were cascaded up here then converted to 320s (given 4-car units would eliminate multiple working due to 6-car limited platform lengths). It's not a bad idea, and the 3 car proposal is very much relevant to the user's suggestion.
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Its already been established that any such moves wont release enough class 380 stock for the E&G. Class 319/321 or even 365 dont have DOO equipment so cannot operate Ayrshire services.
The class 320 conversions being undertaken are for permanent fleet expansion, to convert extra stock for a temporary lease would be expensive and time consuming when there is a perfectly good fleet of class 365 stock that can go straight into service in 8 car formation on the E&G.
 
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Goldfish62

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170401 said:
Why do they need to be like current Scotrail stock and be reduced to 3 car? Both those factors are irrelevant on the E&G which is where any sourced stock will be used.
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1. To reduce time for staff training and sourcing spares
2. To allow 380s to cascade to EG. Using 319s on this line would be a distinct downgrade otherwise.
 
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