Class 365s to Scotrail

[td97]

Presumably if they're causing clearance issues, they're not actually needed on the E&G (i.e. platforms are close enough to not need a step).

Or they were removed for training runs because passengers won't be using them?

 

[scotraildriver]

They have been removed to allow training runs to start immediately. Once clearance issues have been identified and resolved they will be refitted or modified.

 

[hexagon789]

It sounds more 'interesting' than the Desiro's imo - that noise can be earache inducing.

Oh definitely; the Desiros have no soul

 

[PYROOGOBBO]

https://www.facebook.com/ellyna.wil...1700572030908/121699055364393/?type=3&theater

for you guys c:

 

[ScottDarg]

This mornings 2Z52 Queen St - Linlithgow training run terminated at Bishopbriggs and returned to Queen St from Cadder Down loop. Would I be right in assuming that this was due to late running? (28 mins late at the time of cancellation)

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Some of photos from yesterday have appeared on Railscot:
https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/63/994/
(Linlithgow)
https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/63/995/
(Linlithgow)
https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/63/997/
(Lenzie)
https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/63/998/
(Polmont)
https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/63/999/
(Queen Street)
https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/64/0/
(Falkirk)

 

[Highlandspring]

This mornings 2Z52 Queen St - Linlithgow training run terminated at Bishopbriggs and returned to Queen St from Cadder Down loop. Would I be right in assuming that this was due to late running? (28 mins late at the time of cancellation)

Yes, the root cause was down to the inward working not being added to the station docker.

 

[Class 170101]

Presumably these will be guarded whilst in service so how will this work as they were DOO at GN?

 

[DarloRich]

A silly question - are the 365's uin Scotland for training only or for entry into passenger service? if the later does that suggest the windscreen issue is a complex fix?

 

[IanXC]

A silly question - are the 365's uin Scotland for training only or for entry into passenger service? if the later does that suggest the windscreen issue is a complex fix?

Passenger service. There is not a shortage of electrically operated routes in Scotland for drivers to do their traction handling on.

 

[scotraildriver]

Presumably these will be guarded whilst in service so how will this work as they were DOO at GN?

The driver will open the doors and the guard will close from an intermediate cab the same as 380/385 DOCCO

 

[DarloRich]

Passenger service. There is not a shortage of electrically operated routes in Scotland for drivers to do their traction handling on.

interesting - thanks

 

[PYROOGOBBO]

seen a class 57 parked at eastfield today

 

[ScottDarg]

seen a class 57 parked at eastfield today

That will have been 57303, the same one that brought up 365525 yesterday. Worked a set of moves unrelated to the 365s today and will have been using Eastfield to run-around whatever it was moving at the time.

 

[LowLevel]

Presumably these will be guarded whilst in service so how will this work as they were DOO at GN?

They have like the vast majority of trains in service got the controls to be driver or guard operated.

165 and 166 until modded by GWR were about the only pre 2000s train to be solely driver door operation with the guard having to use the signal buzzer. The class 220 and 221 are the others.

Nearly if not everything else (395 excepted?) has the facility to be guard door operation as it generally either has or does operate with a guard or is derived from a guard operated train - even the 700s have guard's door panels.

365s were guard operated with South Eastern.

317s were guard operated on the WCML.

357s were guard operated on the LTS for 12 cars (until recently) - you get the picture.

It's much more economical to provide both as it gives the sets a larger potential operating area.

 

[alangla]

Class 320s were "10 bells" when they were new IIRC. The 318s might have been the same when new, but definitely operated with guards during a short spell when they did North Berwick.

 

[SC318250]

318 were DOO when 1st introduced, tho you could operate as non DOO as the doors were controlled by a seperate key

When they were overhauled at Hunslet Barclay the door key switch was removed.

When it was decided the 318 were going to operate North Berwick services, some of the fleet received guard door controls in the corridor behind driver

 

[Class 170101]

They have like the vast majority of trains in service got the controls to be driver or guard operated.

165 and 166 until modded by GWR were about the only pre 2000s train to be solely driver door operation with the guard having to use the signal buzzer. The class 220 and 221 are the others.

Nearly if not everything else (395 excepted?) has the facility to be guard door operation as it generally either has or does operate with a guard or is derived from a guard operated train - even the 700s have guard's door panels.

365s were guard operated with South Eastern.

317s were guard operated on the WCML.

357s were guard operated on the LTS for 12 cars (until recently) - you get the picture.

It's much more economical to provide both as it gives the sets a larger potential operating area.

But there are no guards panels on these trains. Only controlled in a cab. So the guard will have to return to the cab every time to operate the door controls.

 

[scotraildriver]

Yes that's what's going to happen. The plan is to operate these in semi fixed 8 car formations and the guard will close the doors from an intermediate cab.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes that's what's going to happen. The plan is to operate these in semi fixed 8 car formations and the guard will close the doors from an intermediate cab.

Moving between sets at intermediate stops as necessary?

 

[LowLevel]

But there are no guards panels on these trains. Only controlled in a cab. So the guard will have to return to the cab every time to operate the door controls.

They may be in the cab but they're still door controls for the guard to use - having controls in the saloon didn't really come into vogue until the later 90s builds like 170s.

 

[D2007wsm]

That's the same was as GWR operate the unmodified 166s in the Bristol area, if there are no intermediate door panels they return to the back cab to close them. These are after all a diesel version of the 365, minus the smile.

 

[urpert]

That's the same was as GWR operate the unmodified 166s in the Bristol area, if there are no intermediate door panels they return to the back cab to close them. These are after all a diesel version of the 365, minus the smile.

And the smile is a later bodge to hide the cab air-con anyway. As built they looked like any other Networkers.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

But there are no guards panels on these trains. Only controlled in a cab. So the guard will have to return to the cab every time to operate the door controls.

Are there door controls on both sides of the cab? Without this a guard would only have suitable controls available under particular situations depending on which side of train the platform is. Running permanently as coupled 8-car sets would mitigate this of course.

Moving between sets at intermediate stops as necessary?

That could depend on specifics in Scotrail's safety case for DOCCO. This could also have a bearing on my previous point (above)

 

[scotraildriver]

There are no specific rules, but generally Scotrail guards will remain in the rear portion so there is a member of staff in each set in the event of a passcom or other incident.

 

[hexagon789]

That could depend on specifics in Scotrail's safety case for DOCCO. This could also have a bearing on my previous point (above)

There are no specific rules, but generally Scotrail guards will remain in the rear portion so there is a member of staff in each set in the event of a passcom or other incident.

Which makes sense, I suppose a reason for fitting the 385s with gangways was to enable the guard to move between sets. Do they ever move between sets at stations then?

 

[scotraildriver]

Some do but not generally. If a passcom was to be activated in the rear set and both the driver (obviously ) and guard were in the front it would require a line blockage to enable the guard to return to the rear set to reset. Delays and pain in the bum. 1 member of staff in each set and a is well.

 

[hexagon789]

Some do but not generally. If a passcom was to be activated in the rear set and both the driver (obviously ) and guard were in the front it would require a line blockage to enable the guard to return to the rear set to reset. Delays and pain in the bum. 1 member of staff in each set and a is well.

How does revenue protection get done in the front set then? Or do double sets convey a guard and a ticket examiner?

 

[scotraildriver]

It doesnt. The majority of passengers on this route board or alight at Edinburgh or Glasgow both of which have ticket barriers. There isn't a great deal of ticket fraud on this route

 

[hexagon789]

It doesnt. The majority of passengers on this route board or alight at Edinburgh or Glasgow both of which have ticket barriers. There isn't a great deal of ticket fraud on this route

Fair enough, so they only check tickets in the rear set of a double then?

I presume the arrangements with the trolleys will also remain the same with the 365s.