Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[clc]

Official confirmation that SAD and Grangemouth* go live in December: https://twitter.com/railfreightscot/status/1019989768376070146?s=21

*The tweet about Grangemouth was retweeted by Alex Hynes - I take that as confirmation of its veracity.

 

[DuncanS]

The Falkirk to Glasgow via Cumbernauld service last night at 1715 was an electric train. First time I've seen one doing the route, not sure which type it was but it looked like one of the sets that are normally on the Central to Ayrshire lines.

 

[InOban]

It seems that all the electrified lines are being operated with 380 or 365 trains, to release 170s for Carnoustie. They may even be taking advantage of the reduced holiday commuting to use shorter trains on some peak services. Whether we've seen the last 170 on an E-G service, don't know.

 

[matchmaker]

The new LED signal at Stirling North is plated SN37 which is the current starter.

 

[route101]

It seems that all the electrified lines are being operated with 380 or 365 trains, to release 170s for Carnoustie. They may even be taking advantage of the reduced holiday commuting to use shorter trains on some peak services. Whether we've seen the last 170 on an E-G service, don't know.

If the 365s are cleared for Falkirk duties

 

[59CosG95]

If the 365s are cleared for Falkirk duties

Via F'kirk High, yes. Not sure if they're cleared via G'ston.

 

[route101]

Via F'kirk High, yes. Not sure if they're cleared via G'ston.

Yeah , should of said Falkirk Grahamston.

 

[92002]

Via F'kirk High, yes. Not sure if they're cleared via G'ston.

I'd they weren't cleared they are now.

Last week the E&G trains were Diverted via Grahamston. Even calling there vice Falkirk High. Think they were cleared in any case.

No doubt the next line to get cleared will be via Cumbernauld in case they need to divert there in the future.

 

[InOban]

The idea that a brand new train needs to be specifically cleared to operate on a route for which it was designed? You couldn't make it up.

It's bad enough that decades after a standard BR gauge was created it is still necessary to modify trains or platforms to allow trains such as the 365 to run E-G or the 158 to use the WHL.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The idea that a brand new train needs to be specifically cleared to operate on a route for which it was designed? You couldn't make it up.

It's bad enough that decades after a standard BR gauge was created it is still necessary to modify trains or platforms to allow trains such as the 365 to run E-G or the 158 to use the WHL.

I know what you mean it frustrates the hell out of me.

 

[59CosG95]

The idea that a brand new train needs to be specifically cleared to operate on a route for which it was designed? You couldn't make it up.

It's bad enough that decades after a standard BR gauge was created it is still necessary to modify trains or platforms to allow trains such as the 365 to run E-G or the 158 to use the WHL.

Which gauge? A track gauge, or a loading gauge?

If we'd followed the European practice of widening (where practicable), the likelihood of us being where we are now would be far lower.
We'd have wider trains, taller trains (even double deck ones), so route clearance wouldn't even have been thought of (most likely).
However, we are where we are.

 

[Highlandspring]

No doubt the next line to get cleared will be via Cumbernauld in case they need to divert there in the future.

365s are already cleared via Cumbernauld.

 

[InOban]

Which gauge? A track gauge, or a loading gauge?

If we'd followed the European practice of widening (where practicable), the likelihood of us being where we are now would be far lower.
We'd have wider trains, taller trains (even double deck ones), so route clearance wouldn't even have been thought of (most likely).
However, we are where we are.

I think everyone knew I was referring to loading gauge. We haven't had an issue the track gauge since Brunel.

I assume that all track (re)doubling increases the width of the formation to some European standard, one reason why this work is so expensive. It's never just a matter of relaying the missing track. You can see the work being done to cuttings etc on the current work West of Aberdeen to make space for a second track. (There are pictures on the A2I Twitter).

 

[najaB]

It's never just a matter of relaying the missing track.

Quite often because the remaining track has moved/been slewed in the intervening years, or because the formation edges have deteriorated.

 

[route101]

365s are already cleared via Cumbernauld.

If so will 365s operate the route ?

 

[kilonewton]

Kerse Road Bridge beams are all installed, ahead of the wiring. That’s been going quickly.

 

[gingertom]

If so will 365s operate the route ?

365s will operate the route initially, according to Alex Hynes yesterday.

 

[59CosG95]

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/scotrail-targets-further-electrification-schemes Seems like Alex Hynes is keen to push for the wiring of East Kilbride, the Edinburgh South Suburban and Dunblane-Perth in CP6.

 

[Altnabreac]

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/scotrail-targets-further-electrification-schemes Seems like Alex Hynes is keen to push for the wiring of East Kilbride, the Edinburgh South Suburban and Dunblane-Perth in CP6.

A redoubled, electrified East Kilbride line with platforms extended to take 8 x 23m coaches should be the number one priority for CP6 (closely followed by Lentran Loop and Almond Chord).

 

[Stopper]

I’d love to see the Almond Chord in CP6 as I feel after all the EGIP works, all we have so far is a slight increase in capacity on services. It would hopefully allow E-G services to speed up, and actually give Edinburgh Gateway more of a worthwhile purpose. Maybe it could also allow more Edinburgh-Stirling services, which are necessary, but I doubt it.

I’d like to see East Kilbride, Almond Chord (incl. Electrification from Haymarket to Dalmeny Jn), Kilmarnock/Barrhead, the South Sub and the Lentran Loop.

I don’t see the point of Dunblane to Perth at the moment. Perth remodelling would need to happen first, as well as the fact there are no (apart from some in the peak) local services to Perth from the Dunblane way. It might as well be done as part of a Dunblane-Dundee electrification later on.

 

[clc]

Yes I thought it was a puzzling comment given the scarcity of Scotrail services which would be able to make use of wires between Dunblane and Perth.

 

[ld0595]

I also think it would be strange to electrify only to Perth at the moment since I don’t think there are any Glasgow to Perth terminators. It would be more useful electrifying to Dundee so that at least the Dundee to Glasgow stoppers could be electric.

As an occasional user of the East Kilbride line, I also agree with the comments regarding its electrification. I think the line should be doubled throughout (although I don’t think there’s enough space in EK - at least in its current form - to add an additional plaftorm.) I don’t think it’s necessary to increase platform lengths for 8x23m vehicles, but it should be increased to 4tph throughout the day and I’m sure redoubling and electrification would allow additional services in the peaks.

 

[Stopper]

The goal for EK should be 4tph electrics, possibly 2 semi-fast and 2 stoppers, whether that means redoubling throughout or not.

 

[InOban]

Excuse my ignorance, but was the East Kilbride line ever double throughout?

 

[delt1c]

For me the electrification of the borders line, this would remove a diesel pocket but also with the characteristics of the line electrification would seem logical

 

[NotATrainspott]

For me the electrification of the borders line, this would remove a diesel pocket but also with the characteristics of the line electrification would seem logical

For as long as Fife services are self-powered the Borders line won't be an island. It might be the only diesel service heading east of Waverley, but Edinburgh will be hosting DMUs for a long time. Sure, it wouldn't be difficult to send a few 385s down there if wired up quickly, but this would make it impossible to link together diesel services across Edinburgh. Having some balance of diesel west and east means it's efficient to run cross-Edinburgh services - it doesn't need to be an advertised cross-city link for the benefits to occur.

 

[delt1c]

For as long as Fife services are self-powered the Borders line won't be an island. It might be the only diesel service heading east of Waverley, but Edinburgh will be hosting DMUs for a long time. Sure, it wouldn't be difficult to send a few 385s down there if wired up quickly, but this would make it impossible to link together diesel services across Edinburgh. Having some balance of diesel west and east means it's efficient to run cross-Edinburgh services - it doesn't need to be an advertised cross-city link for the benefits to occur.

not looking at cross link service, looking where electric traction could should benifits

 

[Southsider]

Excuse my ignorance, but was the East Kilbride line ever double throughout?

My understanding is that it originally was (and still is) double from Busby Junction to Busby Station, taking in Thornliebank, Giffnock and Clarkston. The rest of the route out to East Kilbride has always been single track with passing loops.

 

[Macwomble]

My understanding is that it originally was (and still is) double from Busby Junction to Busby Station, taking in Thornliebank, Giffnock and Clarkston. The rest of the route out to East Kilbride has always been single track with passing loops.

According to this http://www.npemap.org.uk/tiles/map.html#259,655,1 the line was definitely single from Busby onwards in 1945

 

[Stopper]

I accidently said redoubling. I actually meant doubling.

As for the Borders line, it would be nice to be electrified but there are other lines ahead of it in terms of demand, and it’s not an operational necessity either, so for now it will likely remain diesel.