GWR operating short 'HSTGTi' sets (see diagrams section for workings)

[t_star2001uk]

oops. Got that one wrong. i was having a moment whilst waiting to depart...

 

[TRAX]

Apologies if this has been covered before; will both power cars be operative while the train isn’t in motion?

 

[bnsf734]

Looking on Realtime Trains there was a Doncaster Works - Bristol move today. I assume by the shiny coaches photographed that this is the second set (or most of it!) being delivered from Wabtec.

 

[CC 72100]

I passed this just before Keynsham before this afternoon - was surprised to see that the rear power car at least was still blue, thought that it would have been green with the mods.

(And before anyone criticises for paint wibble etc., I do understand that the modifications have nothing to do with paint, but just that it seems common so far to have had the interlock modifications and come back painted green)

 

[fgwrich]

With this being the third delivery of Mk3s to GWR (and the 10th vehicle converted) it does look like progress is speeding up with Wabtec at Doncaster at last meaning, hopefully, we'll start seeing further rakes for ScotRail, GW and XC coming out quicker.

With this appearing to be 2 x TS and 1 x TGS, I presume the 2 coaches moved last time were the two missing TS-Ds?

 

[404250]

The ends of the carriages look like they're still blue looking at the last photo.

 

[Trainfan061193]

I must say that the refurbished GW carriages look magnificent indeed! It's looking like Wabtec are finally starting to get a move on now so fingers crossed they do the same as well for SR and XC.

 

[tiptoptaff]

With this appearing to be 2 x TS and 1 x TGS, I presume the 2 coaches moved last time were the two missing TS-Ds?

AIUI yes - there are 2TS-Ds at Laira from the previous move. This move will give 2 sets of TS,TS,TS-D,TGS, with a spare TS

 

[Ash Bridge]

The ends of the carriages look like they're still blue looking at the last photo.

That is actually the rear of the powercar which retains the older FGW blue livery.

 

[43096]

Apologies if this has been covered before; will both power cars be operative while the train isn’t in motion?

How do you mean? I am - genuinely - confused by that question.

 

[TRAX]

Ah well yes I made a mistake and didn’t proof-read, that would explain it. I’m sorry. Here’s what I wanted to write:

Will both power cars be operative while the train is in motion ?

 

[matt]

Yes it will operate with both Power Cars in operation (unless 1 has failed)

 

[Cowley]

Hence the GTI moniker.

 

[43096]

Ah well yes I made a mistake and didn’t proof-read, that would explain it. I’m sorry. Here’s what I wanted to write:

Will both power cars be operative while the train is in motion ?

Ah right, that makes more sense!

Yes, they are.

 

[404250]

That is actually the rear of the powercar which retains the older FGW blue livery.

No it's definately the carriage, on the end near the new silver door. However I think it could be black actually. I presume the blue power cars will go green before too long.

 

[TRAX]

Ah right, that makes more sense!

Yes, they are.

Thanks.
Surely this must be highly innefficient and unnecessary to have two large diesel engines powering only two cars ?

 

[59CosG95]

Thanks.
Surely this must be highly innefficient and unnecessary to have two large diesel engines powering only two cars ?

The powercars will have been de-rated to 100mph maximum, which will give them a much faster rate of acceleration - to quote Monty Python, "it's just a simple question of weight ratios".

 

[TRAX]

I’m sure one de-rated engine is enough.

 

[JamesT]

Thanks.
Surely this must be highly innefficient and unnecessary to have two large diesel engines powering only two cars ?

I believe GWR will be running these as 2+4 sets.

 

[43055]

Looks like the rest of the second set is moving from Bristol to Laira this afternoon.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O58303/2018/11/19/advanced

Dies anyone know what is going to happen once this set if formed? Will only one set be in use still?

 

[43096]

The powercars will have been de-rated to 100mph maximum, which will give them a much faster rate of acceleration - to quote Monty Python, "it's just a simple question of weight ratios".

To do that they would need to be re-geared, which has not and is not being done. The fact that power cars modified to work with the sliding door sets are being used in 125mph service indicates this.

 

[83G/84D]

Looks like the rest of the second set is moving from Bristol to Laira this afternoon.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O58303/2018/11/19/advanced

Dies anyone know what is going to happen once this set if formed? Will only one set be in use still?

What is to say that this move is part of the second set? Could be something else.

 

[Railperf]

The powercars will have been de-rated to 100mph maximum, which will give them a much faster rate of acceleration - to quote Monty Python, "it's just a simple question of weight ratios".

The engines are not being derated. The trains will accelerate far quicker by virtue of only having 4 instead of 8 intermediate coaches. A set with 8 coaches accelerates to 60mph in around 1 min 40 seconds..and 100mph in just over 4 mins. A set with 6 trailer cars is much quicker. 0 to 60mph in 1 min 10secs and 0 to 100mph in 3 mins 11 seconds. I have yet to record the GTI 4 coach sets..but i understand they struggle to put power down..so 0 to 60mph has been recorded in a similar 70 seconds ...but 100mph could be closer to 2.5 mins.. we wait and see! Anyway..far quicker than a pacer or sprinter. But 125mph capabilities will not be used as the routes they will be used on do not have any sections of track uathorised for more than 100mph.

 

[59CosG95]

To do that they would need to be re-geared, which has not and is not being done. The fact that power cars modified to work with the sliding door sets are being used in 125mph service indicates this.

The engines are not being derated. The trains will accelerate far quicker by virtue of only having 4 instead of 8 intermediate coaches. A set with 8 coaches accelerates to 60mph in around 1 min 40 seconds..and 100mph in just over 4 mins. A set with 6 trailer cars is much quicker. 0 to 60mph in 1 min 10secs and 0 to 100mph in 3 mins 11 seconds. I have yet to record the GTI 4 coach sets..but i understand they struggle to put power down..so 0 to 60mph has been recorded in a similar 70 seconds ...but 100mph could be closer to 2.5 mins.. we wait and see! Anyway..far quicker than a pacer or sprinter. But 125mph capabilities will not be used as the routes they will be used on do not have any sections of track authorised for more than 100mph.

Ahh thanks gents, I consider myself very much schooled on the programme! I must have confused "derating" with "restricted to 100mph in normal operation" with the PCs north of the Border...though the loan on 43163 to LNER shows that they are still 125mph capable anyway.

 

[TRAX]

I believe GWR will be running these as 2+4 sets.

That makes more sense, thanks.

 

[Wychwood93]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before! I noticed on Friday that there was an 'HST 2+4' stop board on the down, platform 3, at Bristol Parkway. When they are all available, will we see them hanging a left at Westerleigh and heading to Gloucester, Great Malvern etc.?

 

[nat67]

What is to say that this move is part of the second set? Could be something else.

I will imagine it is the 3/4 of the set, but 43154+43186 still need to go back to Doncaster.

 

[nat67]

Ahh thanks gents, I consider myself very much schooled on the programme! I must have confused "derating" with "restricted to 100mph in normal operation" with the PCs north of the Border...though the loan on 43163 to LNER shows that they are still 125mph capable anyway.

From my understanding is that all they need to do is just lock out noch 5 is that's the correct way for 100mph running.

 

[43096]

From my understanding is that all they need to do is just lock out noch 5 is that's the correct way for 100mph running.

There is an awful lot of myth and rumour building up around these sets!

There is no need to isolate anything for 100mph running. Notch 5 is not being isolated. To do so would be rather daft: imagine the scenario of a failed power car - notch 5 isolated on the remaining good one would severely hamper performance and drivers are not permitted to poke around in the control cubicle reinstating notches.

In short, the only change to the power cars is to add the traction/brake interlock to prevent the set being moved with the sliding doors open. Everything else, such as motor gearing, control system, power rating etc etc is totally unchanged.

 

[scotraildriver]

Our (Scotrail) power cars are not having any changes made to them apart from the addition of traction interlock. It's up to the driver not to speed over 100mph and it's easier said than done!