Railperf
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- 30 Oct 2017
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There were at least three 717's siting at Dollands Moor on Saturday - along with a pair of 755's
Not intending to be pendantic but I think you've overlooked the fact that Essex Road is a Network Rail station managed by Great Northern so technically you're wrong in saying the stations are under TfL control as that only applies to Highbury & Islington, Old Street and Moorgate.
Just saying
I guess at Highbury & Islington as you have cross platform interchange between Great Northern and the Victoria Line you could use the wifi that's on the LUL platforms whereas as the other stations this isn't possible.
I do have to wonder although TfL isn't responsible directly for the GN platforms why they couldn't just come to a agreement and extend their wifi to the GN platforms unless it was a conflict of interest as TfL use Virgin Mobile? and FCC/GN use O2.
I do think it would have been in the best interest of all to have wifi in both the running tunnels and in the platforms, I know TfL is finally coming out of the dark ages and is looking at doing this for their services so hopefully the powers to be will get together so the technology is available not just for TfL but also for Crossrail, Thameslink and the GN Inners so the passenger always has up to date information available via the wifi.
I do agree with Failed Unit though that service information SHOULD be available on the Class 717s regardless of location regardless of what connection is used.
Was a passenger on one this morning. Can't believe how filthy the floors look already !
Spilled coffee and the like, but there was grit residue too.Some stations have been gritted due to the cold weather. Was it this, or spilled coffee and the like?
Spilled coffee and the like, but there was grit residue too.
A lot of subjective opinion as normal, yes I suppose so if we take your opinion that the Class 7XX are not reliability or comfortable. with nothing to offer as to replacing the Class 313 indeed I guess you would rather they last another 40 years regardless of their poor reliability?
As to the Class 700s if they were that bad WHY then at the National Rail Awards 2018 did Siemens pick up the Award for Train of the Year - Passenger for their Class 700 offering?
The Class 717s yes may well have less seating BUT the important thing which you and others neglect to say is the fact that overall they DO cater for more passengers over the Class 313s, click here for article
For example below are some figures from Paul Bigland
313s: Seated 462. Standing 384. Total 846.
717s: Seated 362. Standing 581. Total 943.
Now as to why the Class 717s are far superior to the old Class 313s:
Again as I have stated before the heating on the Class 313s is knacked so this is very much welcomed.
- Air conditioning for improved comfort on-board
I know most people enjoy 4G however there are some places where their mobile provider has blackspots so having a mobile
- Connectivity with free Wi-Fi throughout* and power points at every pair of seats
4G connection isn't helpful but also because for those who have low data allowances by using wifi where provided means
not running out of data ie those on PAYG unless you count Three of course but then again they have nowhere near the
coverage that EE has etc....
As to the power plugs, they are a bonus as I wouldn't expect them on a Metro train but there you go.
Be able to actually board the train in the first place is important so this extra space is important for current and future
- Space for approximately 100 extra passengers per train, because passenger numbers on Great Northern have more than doubled in 16 years and this will give you more space
growth.
Also means faster dwell times once people open up to the idea that there is more space onboard, they don't need to bunch
- Wider doors, wide, open aisles and open, interconnected carriages (like a bendy bus) so that all passengers including those with accessibility needs can move easily throughout the entire train. The trains have been designed so that people can board and alight quickly, helping to keep trains running on time
up by the doors - if you can explain why people prefer to do that then go ahead...
Just as well, the middle seat might well be used in the peaks but off peak I can't say I saw it in use ever!
- Two-by-two seating instead of unpopular three-by-two seating
Also means more space with the 2+2 seating inside the train.
It would be nice to have longer platforms for the GN Inners but sadly the NCL prevents this hence 6 coaches will be the
- All trains are fixed at the maximum size of six carriages that can fit into platforms
longest trains possible.
A increase of grab rails over the Class 313s is good and especially better with clearer markings for wheelchair users.
- Each train has the latest accessibility features; including more visible grab handles and wheelchair spaces with clear markings on the carriage exteriors
This is useful to know for LUL connections especially at Finsbury Park.
- Live updates from London Underground available inside the train so passengers can plan onwards journeys (except between Drayton Park & Moorgate)
I don't have access to any MTIN numbers for the simple reason that I don't buy railway magazines at all.
I've never understood the complaints about the seats.
The obstructed foot space is faintly annoying- though not unique to this stock- though in my experience it's impact on the aisle is very limited.
The air-conditioning will be a benefit in the summer. But not noticed yet. The 313s were fine at this time of year.
I do tend to prefer taking the opinions of real users. Ones that use the line over ones that GTR pay as well.
In times of disruption I still expect people to be left behind.
They're an revelation. If I catch the c.8:25 in the morning peak at Harringay I can now be guaranteed to get on, which was not the case with the 313s.
Such a relief when the 1725 Moorgate arrives at Highbury and Islington during the northbound peak. A train that would have been utterly crushed, and often left people behind, still has plenty of room to move around. I was even able to get off at Harringay without asking half a dozen people to get off first. The extra space makes a huge difference.
As we can’t mount anything on the ceiling. What is your view of the 313 style grab rails Jon? I they had done something similar on the 717s do you think it would work?
...In other news, WiFi has been fitted at Moorgate. It hasn't been activated yet, and it may only be there for use of the trains. Details are sketchy.
...In other news, WiFi has been fitted at Moorgate. It hasn't been activated yet, and it may only be there for use of the trains. Details are sketchy.
For Tonight only, the following services will be 717 vice 2 x 313.
2K17 16.48 Finsbury Park to Moorgate
2G19 17.09 Moorgate to Gordon Hill
2J33 17.54 Gordon Hill to Moorgate
2V36 18.32 Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City
313 knackered?
Think all 313s are 'knackered'313 knackered?
700s - Not fully though through by DfT (most of the core thinking on TL tender was done 2006-08), they now realise you need to specify about 1.5 sensible handhold options per standee, they didn't at the time.Yes, I think that would be a very good idea. Next time I get on a 717 I'll have a look and see where they might be able to attach them to the side walls. I'm sure Siemens already has an option for that type of train.
Looking back at the 700s, wasn't the DfT spec along the lines of wanting to purposely keep the area clear to encourage people to move down/along the train? Maybe they never sought to have more grab rails because they thought it would make people NOT stand there, and thus not block the doorways?
313 knackered?
It is fine quoting A press release. Come back when you have actually used one in the peak.
Grab rails an improvement?
The 313s had one across each door and on the luggage racks. The 7xx are definitely worse in particular around the doors. Other posters have commented on this. But someone never travelling on one wouldn’t know this. They also wouldn’t know that knees in the aisle reduces standing room.
The air-conditioning will be a benefit in the summer. But not noticed yet. The 313s were fine at this time of year.
I do tend to prefer taking the opinions of real users. Ones that use the line over ones that GTR pay as well.
I usually go upstairs out the station for turnarounds that long, even got brekkie once! You also get Street WiFi from O2.I hope it's public access. 20 minute turnarounds there can be pretty boring on the weekends.
I've not been on one yet but isn't the basic problem that ideally one would be catering for two audiences - people travelling on off-peak or less busy services who want a seat and want comfort, and people getting on at stations down or up the line in the peak who currently either cannot get on or are uncomfortably squeezed? I can't see it's possible to please both sets of people with the same train.
Longitudinally across the doorway or laterally across the vestibule? (or Both?)I think the existing vertical rails could be modified to have a bridge linking the two and give a rail similar to that of a 313.
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