Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
There appears to be a pair of 5-car sets at Aberdeen. What are these there for - training, or will they soon work the Chieftain?
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LNER Azuma (Class 800/801)
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hexagon789
Veteran Member
I thought the north of Edinburgh services were going to be 9-car?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Maybe it was a 9-car, then. But there's definitely an Azuma branded long train sat there in the sidings at Aberdeen.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I'm not doubting what you've seen at all sorry, it was purely what I thought was planned. It's extremely possible it's changed anyway.
Look at post 1403 for further information - expected to be at Aberdeen for 3 weeks
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Cheers.
Coach M contains the kitchen. You can find the seating plan for the five, nine and ten coach formations here (the "crew area" in coach M is the kitchen).
Many thanks.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
Any ideas of when the 801s will be introduced?
43096
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First trip on an “Azuma” today as my regular weekly train up to Leeds (0803 KX-Leeds) went over this morning. Good chance for a comparison as my two LNER runs last week were on an HST and a Mark 4. Should say, this were all in standard class and in all cases my seats happened to be near the end of a vehicle, so over the bogie.
First Impression
Set in reverse formation and not indicated as such, either, which was not a good start. On boarding, initial impressions are favourable, vestibule nice enough and the saloon lighting is good - not retina burning (like GWR HSTs) or dingy (like Pendolinos). The use of the red colours brightens the vehicle up in comparison to the predominantly grey interior of the GWR sets.
Score: 7/10
Build quality
Seemed somewhat better than what I remembered the GWR sets to be like (though it’s a while since I used a GWR set) with no noticeable rattles. Have Hitachi upped their game? There is still the feeling that they are a bog-standard EMU, and not a high end IC train - nothing like the style and class of an ICE.
Score: 7/10
Reservation system
Really liked this. The reservation screens were easily readable, and the seat available red/green LEDs are very visible when glancing down the coach, which is how it should be. Much better than the add-on system LNER have in their current fleet.
Score: 9/10
Noise levels
Pretty low, but there was a noticeable hum from the aircon (though not as much as a Desiro) and traction motor noise was audible, which of course you don’t get on a Mark 3 or Mark 4. Whichever way you put it, it’s an EMU so there will be some noise.
Score: 7/10
Seats
Oh dear me. These are catastrophically bad. Where to start? On sitting down, there seemed to be small “wings” on the edge of the seat back padding that annoyed me. I was unable to find any comfortable position to sit in and my bum had gone to sleep by Stevenage due to the lack of padding on the seats. By the time we got to Leeds my back and neck were aching. Add to that the poor design of the window side armrest where a cable run (I think) cover protrudes and makes use of the arm rest all but impossible. To be clear these seats are a total disgrace and are utterly unfit for purpose.
Score: 1/10 (the 1 is for having cut pile moquette covers)
Ride
This was surprisingly bad. It felt like the bogie beneath me was hunting the whole time, which is not good for a brand new train and there were some lurches in places, too. Add in the effects of the poor seats (no padding) and the ride felt uncomfortable. After using the GWR sets I had reckoned they were on a par with a Mark 4, but I will revise that. They are sub-Mark 4 ride quality and massively inferior to a BT10. I don’t want to think what they will be like in the 12 months before they are due a bogie change.
Score: 3/10
Overall
Despite the positives, I just can’t get away from the seat and ride quality. Seat comfort is the most basic of pre-requisites for an IC service and my experience is heavily weighted because of that. Put it this way: the 458 I had into Waterloo beforehand was vastly more comfortable.
Score: 3/10
First Impression
Set in reverse formation and not indicated as such, either, which was not a good start. On boarding, initial impressions are favourable, vestibule nice enough and the saloon lighting is good - not retina burning (like GWR HSTs) or dingy (like Pendolinos). The use of the red colours brightens the vehicle up in comparison to the predominantly grey interior of the GWR sets.
Score: 7/10
Build quality
Seemed somewhat better than what I remembered the GWR sets to be like (though it’s a while since I used a GWR set) with no noticeable rattles. Have Hitachi upped their game? There is still the feeling that they are a bog-standard EMU, and not a high end IC train - nothing like the style and class of an ICE.
Score: 7/10
Reservation system
Really liked this. The reservation screens were easily readable, and the seat available red/green LEDs are very visible when glancing down the coach, which is how it should be. Much better than the add-on system LNER have in their current fleet.
Score: 9/10
Noise levels
Pretty low, but there was a noticeable hum from the aircon (though not as much as a Desiro) and traction motor noise was audible, which of course you don’t get on a Mark 3 or Mark 4. Whichever way you put it, it’s an EMU so there will be some noise.
Score: 7/10
Seats
Oh dear me. These are catastrophically bad. Where to start? On sitting down, there seemed to be small “wings” on the edge of the seat back padding that annoyed me. I was unable to find any comfortable position to sit in and my bum had gone to sleep by Stevenage due to the lack of padding on the seats. By the time we got to Leeds my back and neck were aching. Add to that the poor design of the window side armrest where a cable run (I think) cover protrudes and makes use of the arm rest all but impossible. To be clear these seats are a total disgrace and are utterly unfit for purpose.
Score: 1/10 (the 1 is for having cut pile moquette covers)
Ride
This was surprisingly bad. It felt like the bogie beneath me was hunting the whole time, which is not good for a brand new train and there were some lurches in places, too. Add in the effects of the poor seats (no padding) and the ride felt uncomfortable. After using the GWR sets I had reckoned they were on a par with a Mark 4, but I will revise that. They are sub-Mark 4 ride quality and massively inferior to a BT10. I don’t want to think what they will be like in the 12 months before they are due a bogie change.
Score: 3/10
Overall
Despite the positives, I just can’t get away from the seat and ride quality. Seat comfort is the most basic of pre-requisites for an IC service and my experience is heavily weighted because of that. Put it this way: the 458 I had into Waterloo beforehand was vastly more comfortable.
Score: 3/10
samuelmorris
Established Member
Absolutely, I did a round-trip from London to Reading, outbound on a GWR 800 and back on an SWR 458. The latter was superior in basically every way, other than speed of course.
Midnight Sun
Member
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- 310
I have to agree, I had to go to Bristol last month. Took one of these units from Paddington by the time I reached Bristol, I was in pain from sitting on these seats and had to visit the NHS walk-in Centre. Where I was told that it was Bursitis which is inflammation and swelling of a bursa. A bursa is a fluid-filled sac which forms under the skin, usually over the joints, and acts as a cushion between the tendons and bones. The inflammation was right where that seat support bar is located. The nurse who treated me told me that in the past year they had seen a large increase in this sort of injury coming in. Needed 60mg of codine to reduce the pain so I could sit down even then I need a cushion. Came back via the SouthWestern Service to Waterloo on these nice soft 159 seats.
I would like to take the person who selected these not fit for purposed seats and handcuff them to a seat on first service using one of these units on the Highland Chieftain.
Anyone looking to start a new business, You make a packet with a stand, selling cushions to passengers.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
They can still read the displays.
samuelmorris
Established Member
But also the most commonly recognised colour scheme for a yes / no situation. As others have said, the display also clarifies the situation by showing where the seat is reserved from/to or displaying if it's available.
Thunderer
Member
A very comprehensive and spot on review. I noticed the ride quality issues last year on the GWR 800 especially at 100mph plus speeds, there seems to be a lot of lateral movement and you can really feel the pointwork under the bogies, especially at speed. To be honest, for an Inter-City train I think its generous to give them an overall 3 out of 10 - a very poor replacement for the HST and 91 and Mark 4 stock.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
Again, please speak for yourself. You may think alongside others that they’re a poor replacement, but some people including myself aren’t so cynical and believe it to be a decent enough replacement for very old and inadequate trains such as the HST.
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You just need one light to show if reserved or not. Not a choice of lights. If all lit up in different colours, then it takes a lot longer to work it out.....
transmanche
Established Member
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I disagree. If you only have a single light either on or off to indicate if the seat is reserved, people will slow down to check the detailed text assuming that the light has failed. Providing a positive yes-no indication using two colours (or three, as I believe TPE will use on their Nova 1s) allows the vast majority of passengers to be confident in the indication without needing to stop to read the detail on the display.
59CosG95
Established Member
801103, now vinyled up with Azuma logos is due to work this tonight: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97205/2019/06/04/advanced
Spotted in the flesh by yours truly at Peterboro' just 5 minutes ago.
Spotted in the flesh by yours truly at Peterboro' just 5 minutes ago.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
GWR use red (reserved now), amber (not reserved now but will be) and green (not reserved at any point during the journey) don't they?
palmersears
Established Member
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800102, 104 and 110 noted out on the current three diagrams today, along with 113 on test pulling into the Cross just after evening peak. Whatever the reservations about the inside, they do look might sleek on the outside.
So the 800`s are more than literally a pain in the posterior.
Inadequate trains! I`d like to see where any of the class 800`s are in 43 years. Probably on the bodywork of some electric cars twice recycled
I expect the 800s will be in service in 40 years… albeit it with different seats.
Railperf
Established Member
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At what age / mileage would there be a planned interior refresh where alternative seats could be fitted? Do they have a 10 year shelf life? Or should the frames last the lifetime of the train with recushioning where necessary. Or is it too tightly locked down contractually?
I have done a fair bit of travelling on these recently, both the GWR and LNER versions. And yes - I have experienced the full 5hr journey to Penzance. and i can confirm my posterior is not in any pain at all. The seats are firmer than what we have been used to, and possibly a bit too upright for my frame. But they are okay, And the hundreds of fellow passengers that get on and off, don't seem to complain much at all either. I haven't experienced anything close to a walk-off by anyone because the seats are so horrendously hard to sit on.
But if a time came when mk4 style seats could be fitted...i think it would be welcomed by one and all. The reservation system, for the most part works most of the time. Everything else is okay. I don't mind the GWR trolley, but i wish it would come up and down the train more regularly.
None of the 800's i have been on has experienced a failure yet that caused me any delay. The only delays have been other issues either at the station or to do with traffic on the network.
It looks like there are still a few teething issues, but in all fairness, i think they are a reasonable train. And once the final teething issues are sorted and the new timetable implemented with electric running to Cardiff...it will be a much better all round service. The emphasis now seems to be on moving more people - with less emphasis on luxury or comfort.
I have done a fair bit of travelling on these recently, both the GWR and LNER versions. And yes - I have experienced the full 5hr journey to Penzance. and i can confirm my posterior is not in any pain at all. The seats are firmer than what we have been used to, and possibly a bit too upright for my frame. But they are okay, And the hundreds of fellow passengers that get on and off, don't seem to complain much at all either. I haven't experienced anything close to a walk-off by anyone because the seats are so horrendously hard to sit on.
But if a time came when mk4 style seats could be fitted...i think it would be welcomed by one and all. The reservation system, for the most part works most of the time. Everything else is okay. I don't mind the GWR trolley, but i wish it would come up and down the train more regularly.
None of the 800's i have been on has experienced a failure yet that caused me any delay. The only delays have been other issues either at the station or to do with traffic on the network.
It looks like there are still a few teething issues, but in all fairness, i think they are a reasonable train. And once the final teething issues are sorted and the new timetable implemented with electric running to Cardiff...it will be a much better all round service. The emphasis now seems to be on moving more people - with less emphasis on luxury or comfort.
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