Enforcement of the new rules on social distancing, unnecessary journeys etc.

[DarloRich]

@bramling you are wasting your time trying to explain your views. I agree with them but the response here merely illustrates the problem out there.

Btw your experience of the supermarket tallies with mine. A good system had been set up in the shop but many idiots were not following it or distancing. I had to tell 2 people to back off. I didn't have a chat with them just told them blunty. I am not putting myself at risk becuase of an idiot.

Btw2 : I am a key worker (hahaha!!!) But am able to work from home ( it took longer than it should mind) but many of my colleagues are not so lucky. They are at serious risk of illness and the result of that loss willcl have serious impacts

 

[Meerkat]

The police don't, as evidenced by their repeated refusal to police 20 mph speed limit areas.

A perfect example of the police not being the draconian power abusers some are portraying them as.
They know loads of the 20mph limits are an ideologically driven nonsense and any enforcement will just lose them the cooperation of the public.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As far as gardens go, I have one 100 yards long. Since the lockdown came in I've spend a grand total of one day in it, despite having been on leave for one week. Evidently I don't have enough time on my hands!

I never sit in the garden, TBH I've always considered it rather of a nuisance and have put fake grass down so I at least don't have to cut it. I prefer to sit in the lounge with the front window and back door open to get a through draught of fresh air.

Seriously, I just don't get the boredom thing. Despite having a week off, I still have plenty of books and DVDs that I didn't get round to reading/watching.

If that's what you enjoy, cool. Many don't!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I had to tell 2 people to back off. I didn't have a chat with them just told them blunty. I am not putting myself at risk becuase of an idiot.

I found the system at the Three Trees Co-op a bit confusing and people were going the wrong way as a result (not sure I wasn't at times!)

Instead of people telling people bluntly, we were all polite, accommodating and had a bit of a laugh about its slightly confusing nature (including the end aisle being an out and back).

Isn't that better than raw aggression? Probably provided a bit of light entertainment for all.

 

[Meerkat]

Isn't that better than raw aggression? Probably provided a bit of light entertainment for all.

Well exactly!
I massively broke the distancing yesterday. I was trying to find stuff so in total shopping mode, two blokes were fannying about so I scooted between them out of habit. Only occurred to me afterwards that they were doing the separation dance!
Separation is adding something new to a process we usually do almost on autopilot.
Always assume incompetence/accident rather than thoughtlessness and you will have a far more relaxed life.

 

[DarloRich]

I found the system at the Three Trees Co-op a bit confusing and people were going the wrong way as a result (not sure I wasn't at times!)

Instead of people telling people bluntly, we were all polite, accommodating and had a bit of a laugh about its slightly confusing nature (including the end aisle being an out and back).

Isn't that better than raw aggression? Probably provided a bit of light entertainment for all.

The tesco in bletchley had a clearly marked one way entrance with 2m gaps marked out. Once inside a one way route was marked with big arrows round the store. Black and yellow hazard tape as stuck to the floor at 2m intervals. There were even staff on the entrance stopping the flow of people in to create space while warning people to stay 2m apart.

It was as clear as day and some people simply didnt bother following that.

Like I said I told them firmly ( not rudely) to get back, especially the bloke who lent across me to get some cheese! You are welcome to chat nicely to the idiots. I want them away from me.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Always assume incompetence/accident rather than thoughtlessness and you will have a far more relaxed life.

Never assume conspiracy, as cock-up is a much more likely cause.

 

[DarloRich]

Well exactly!
I massively broke the distancing yesterday. I was trying to find stuff so in total shopping mode, two blokes were fannying about so I scooted between them out of habit. Only occurred to me afterwards that they were doing the separation dance!
Separation is adding something new to a process we usually do almost on autopilot.
Always assume incompetence/accident rather than thoughtlessness and you will have a far more relaxed life.

Let's hope you didnt give those 2 blokes the lurgy or them to you.

I agree it was probably simply a case of auto pilot but I find my tolerance reduced. I am trying to keep the 2ms back and doing so with everything else going on. Why cant that person think enough to do so?

 

[CM]

Not sure if I wasn't quite clear, however at this moment most of the railway will be running courtesy of people who have been up at times like 0300. It's typical for shifts to book on as early as 0445.



There's lots of things people can't do at the moment. No one needs to cycle in order to maintain fitness, and especially not in groups - which is what's been happening in my area. What I'm seeing is two distinct subsets. One is groups of men on roadie-type bikes taking the opportunity to do relatively long rides. How do I know this? Because I'm seeing them on rural roads some miles from housing. The other group is the play cyclists who are wobbling around everywhere, including footpaths alleyways pavements and sometimes roads. The latter group are hardly out for exercise since they'd get more exercise value out of a walk, and the former group wouldn't be so much of an issue if they weren't choosing to do it in groups.

As regards key workers, I can assure you this isn't nurses.

You do realise that the term "key workers" doesn't just apply to Nurses. It applies to a broad range of people including Police, Bus Drivers, Train Drivers. I've been classed as a key worker as I work in a factory that produces packaging to the food industry and also medical items to the NHS. I still have to go to work because If I don't, I don't get paid. Plenty of people in my work cycle there and back home so don't just assume that the people you see out on their bikes are just out for the fun of it as they could quite easily be key workers heading to work.

 

[island]

Not good enough. The officer with the nasty attitude should be getting their P45.

Sacking a person for making a once-off mistake is nonsensical, not to mention illegal. Policemen are human too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sacking a person for making a once-off mistake is nonsensical, not to mention illegal. Policemen are human too.

Well, quite, particularly as none of them have been on a 2-week training course about COVID19 and there's a heck of a lot of misinformation out there (such as a heck of a lot of people parroting the advice as "stay indoors" which is incorrect).

They need to apologise, as they did, and send out clear communication clarifying this. Being on an "open" driveway or garden does "feel" a bit like being in the street, so it's a sort of understandable misunderstanding.

 

[Meerkat]

Let's hope you didnt give those 2 blokes the lurgy or them to you.

I am no doctor but being within 2m of a non-coughing person for one second must carry a minuscule risk

Well, quite, particularly as none of them have been on a 2-week training course about COVID19 and there's a heck of a lot of misinformation out there

And they are presumably constantly being badgered by the lockdown vigilantes

 

[Mojo]

Meanwhile, in "do what I say not do what I do", Cabinet Minister Robert Jenrick has been commuting between his £2.9m townhouse in Westminster and his manor house in Herefordshire, and drove 40 miles to visit his parents "to drop off medicine".

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ring-covid-19-lockdown?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Robert Jenrick did nothing wrong. He actually drove from his house in Herefordshire, to his parents’ house about 70km away; didn’t enter the house, to drop off essential supplies. This is allowed for in both the government guidelines (the spirit of the legislation) and also legally allowed under the Regulations.

 

[Hadders]

I do feel for those working in supermarkets etc who are at higher risk, though - a lot of people are very scared. I do wonder though if there should be an option for those people to choose furlough and someone else who wants to work and e.g. has nobody high risk at home can take the job. Obviously this will only work with jobs requiring only short training, but that's most of retail.

Furlough shouldn't be a choice for staff. Running a supermarket is hard enough at the current time without giving experienced staff the option of going on furlough.

 

[bramling]

@bramling you are wasting your time trying to explain your views. I agree with them but the response here merely illustrates the problem out there.

Btw your experience of the supermarket tallies with mine. A good system had been set up in the shop but many idiots were not following it or distancing. I had to tell 2 people to back off. I didn't have a chat with them just told them blunty. I am not putting myself at risk becuase of an idiot.

Btw2 : I am a key worker (hahaha!!!) But am able to work from home ( it took longer than it should mind) but many of my colleagues are not so lucky. They are at serious risk of illness and the result of that loss willcl have serious impacts

I know for a fact there’s people out there who are doing shop crawls. A friend / colleague of mine is off shielding for 12 weeks having suffered a stroke a couple of years ago. Every day he phones me for a catch up, and every time it’s when his wife is dragging him round shop after shop. He remains in the car, but is still extremely aware that she could be picking it up and at risk of passing it on. The things people do for love!

 

[yorkie]

Robert Jenrick did nothing wrong. He actually drove from his house in Herefordshire, to his parents’ house about 70km away; didn’t enter the house, to drop off essential supplies. This is allowed for in both the government guidelines (the spirit of the legislation) and also legally allowed under the Regulations.

Indeed nothing wrong with that. I do think there is a competition among a very vocal minority of the general public and media to be as sanctimonious as possible; often without regard for what the law actually says and/or not applying common sense.

This bizarre attitude is often accompanied with views that don't seem to understand why we are having the social distancing measures and a failure to understand that in the long term a lot of people are likely to get the virus but there is a need to avoid too many people getting it simultaneously, which we are currently achieving; their views would make much more sense if we were dealing with a very different type of virus than is actually the case.

I know for a fact there’s people out there who are doing shop crawls. A friend / colleague of mine is off shielding for 12 weeks having suffered a stroke a couple of years ago. Every day he phones me for a catch up, and every time it’s when his wife is dragging him round shop after shop. He remains in the car, but is still extremely aware that she could be picking it up and at risk of passing it on. The things people do for love!

That is very odd behaviour but I've not seen any evidence of anyone else doing this; there will always be a small minority of people who act strangely, and I think you just have to accept that. Highlighting some extreme examples of odd behaviour isn't really that relevant when it's the overall trends that matter. Almost everyone I've seen has been behaving sensibly.

 

[bramling]

I am no doctor but being within 2m of a non-coughing person for one second must carry a minuscule risk

And they are presumably constantly being badgered by the lockdown vigilantes

This is a lot of the issue, no one really knows, and that seems to apply to the medical experts too. The 2 metre guidance has been given out, and it isn’t so difficult for people to respect it. Whether it turns out to be overkill or not is beside the point, hopefully it is, but at this point no one knows. Certainly my experience over the pre-lockdown weekend was a total lack of respect for *any* distancing. I had a few people removed off our premises for that.

It really isn’t that difficult unless people choose to make it so.

It doesn’t help that some people are just plain lacking self-awareness. Just last week was sat on a virtually-empty train. Woman boards and comes and sits directly opposite - within one metre let alone two. To add to it she then started playing music loudly. She completed her journey by other means.

 

[Ianno87]

Cambridge Police tweet this morning (https://twitter.com/CambridgeCops/status/1248527425379713025?s=20)

Officers visited Tesco Barhill this morning as part of their patrols around supermarkets and green spaces this weekend. Good to see everyone was abiding by social distancing measures and the non essential aisles were empty.

What are the "non essential aisles"?

 

[bramling]

Indeed nothing wrong with that. I do think there is a competition among a very vocal minority of the general public and media to be as sanctimonious as possible; often without regard for what the law actually says and/or not applying common sense.

This bizarre attitude is often accompanied with views that don't seem to understand why we are having the social distancing measures and a failure to understand that in the long term a lot of people are likely to get the virus but there is a need to avoid too many people getting it simultaneously, which we are currently achieving; their views would make much more sense if we were dealing with a very different type of virus than is actually the case.

That is very odd behaviour but I've not seen any evidence of anyone else doing this; there will always be a small minority of people who act strangely, and I think you just have to accept that. Highlighting some extreme examples of odd behaviour isn't really that relevant when it's the overall trends that matter. Almost everyone I've seen has been behaving sensibly.

You raise an interesting point there. A lot of the vigilantism seems to revolve around second homes, with people saying “don’t come to Wales/Devon/Cornwall as we don’t want it here and don’t have the medical facilities to handle it”. I suspect these places may need to come to accept the fact that they’re probably going to get it at some point.

 

[Bantamzen]

Let's hope you didnt give those 2 blokes the lurgy or them to you.

I agree it was probably simply a case of auto pilot but I find my tolerance reduced. I am trying to keep the 2ms back and doing so with everything else going on. Why cant that person think enough to do so?

Because human, people make mistakes, go into auto-pilot. I saw it happen this morning at the local Asda, people just forgetting then realising & apologising. So long as for the most part people keep a reasonable distance, don't cough or sneeze around people, wash their hands regularly then the risks are going to be low. Its not like a cartoon where an infected person has a cloud of covid surrounding their bodies permanently.

One thing did occur to me whilst we queued up outside in the car park to get in. Today is a nice enough morning, clouds breaking, sun coming out, everyone reasonably happy. But what if we have any more storms like we did earlier this year? Will people still be content to queue for some time when the skies open & let loose?

Cambridge Police tweet this morning (https://twitter.com/CambridgeCops/status/1248527425379713025?s=20)



What are the "non essential aisles"?

They really aren't helping themselves are they? But there's a great response on that feed:

kiwibrett

@kiwibrett
38m

Replying to
@CambridgeCops
Sounds like non essential policing.

Great comeback. Now will someone please tell the Police what their job is (hint, its not to check if "non-essential isles" are empty.

 

[Mojo]

Cambridge Police tweet this morning (https://twitter.com/CambridgeCops/status/1248527425379713025?s=20)

What are the "non essential aisles"?

It's gibberish by overzealous police officers who are running these accounts.

The Home Secretary has made it clear that any shop that is open for business can retail anything in the shop. It is up to the shop to decide what they want to sell. For instance M&S foodhall near my work where I have popped in to has cordoned off all the clothes, but you can still buy socks, underwear and flowers, as well as food. Asda's meanwhile have left their non-food section open, and others have already mentioned the junk still for sale in Aldi's and Lidl's.

 

[bramling]

Well, quite, particularly as none of them have been on a 2-week training course about COVID19 and there's a heck of a lot of misinformation out there (such as a heck of a lot of people parroting the advice as "stay indoors" which is incorrect).

They need to apologise, as they did, and send out clear communication clarifying this. Being on an "open" driveway or garden does "feel" a bit like being in the street, so it's a sort of understandable misunderstanding.

I suspect the police are as bothered as other workers about the risk they’re potentially being exposed to - not to mention no doubt they’re getting an almighty amount of grief. There’s certainly stories of officers being deliberately coughed at.

I suspect the police are as frustrated as everyone else with elements of the current situation.

 

[bramling]

Indeed nothing wrong with that. I do think there is a competition among a very vocal minority of the general public and media to be as sanctimonious as possible; often without regard for what the law actually says and/or not applying common sense.

This bizarre attitude is often accompanied with views that don't seem to understand why we are having the social distancing measures and a failure to understand that in the long term a lot of people are likely to get the virus but there is a need to avoid too many people getting it simultaneously, which we are currently achieving; their views would make much more sense if we were dealing with a very different type of virus than is actually the case.

That is very odd behaviour but I've not seen any evidence of anyone else doing this; there will always be a small minority of people who act strangely, and I think you just have to accept that. Highlighting some extreme examples of odd behaviour isn't really that relevant when it's the overall trends that matter. Almost everyone I've seen has been behaving sensibly.

I’m not convinced this is that unusual, certainly not in London. Every day this week when driving home retail park car parks have been packed to bursting, increasingly so as the week has progressed. Surely they can’t all be doing essential shopping as infrequently as possible?

I take it your experiences are outside London. That may well be why we’re seeing a variance in behaviours. Ironically London is the place which possibly needs the *most* respect, with the inverse applying.

 

[Mag_seven]

Cambridge Police tweet this morning (https://twitter.com/CambridgeCops/status/1248527425379713025?s=20)



What are the "non essential aisles"?

The police should not be "patrolling supermarkets" as that means there are more people in the supermarket than need be which hinders social distancing.

 

[Bantamzen]

I suspect the police are as bothered as other workers about the risk they’re potentially being exposed to - not to mention no doubt they’re getting an almighty amount of grief. There’s certainly stories of officers being deliberately coughed at.

I suspect the police are as frustrated as everyone else with elements of the current situation.

Those idiots coughing at the Police need to be, and as I understand it are being dealt with severely. However no matter how frustrating it is for them, the Police are the public facing front line of the emergency powers, and as such need to act within both the spirit and letter of the law. Sadly the number of these kind of ill thought Tweets, statements and interventions is growing and spreading rapidly across social media. As I was queuing for the store this morning an elderly gentleman in front of me was telling people around him that "they were going to start checking baskets for non-essential items". It is very possible his belief that this was about to happen came from that poor press statement from that Police Chief, presumably through various members of his family's social network, with more than a hint of Chinese whispers.

In this day an age misinformation doesn't just start from malicious sources, they can start from badly worded or incorrect official sources too. In making that statement about checking shopping baskets, the Police have actually started a round of fake news, and the latest one about the non-essential isles will be fuelling that further. Someone very high up needs to get a grip very, very quickly.

 

[Mag_seven]

What are the "non essential aisles"?

It is interesting to note that the word "essential" only appears once in section 6 of the regulations (for England) and that is in relation to the "upkeep, maintenance and functioning of the household". The term "essential items" or the term "non essential items" does not appear.

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—

(a)to obtain basic necessities, including food and medical supplies for those in the same household (including any pets or animals in the household) or for vulnerable persons and supplies for the essential upkeep, maintenance and functioning of the household, or the household of a vulnerable person, or to obtain money, including from any business listed in Part 3 of Schedule 2;

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/regulation/6/made

 

[C J Snarzell]

Those idiots coughing at the Police need to be, and as I understand it are being dealt with severely. However no matter how frustrating it is for them, the Police are the public facing front line of the emergency powers, and as such need to act within both the spirit and letter of the law. Sadly the number of these kind of ill thought Tweets, statements and interventions is growing and spreading rapidly across social media. As I was queuing for the store this morning an elderly gentleman in front of me was telling people around him that "they were going to start checking baskets for non-essential items". It is very possible his belief that this was about to happen came from that poor press statement from that Police Chief, presumably through various members of his family's social network, with more than a hint of Chinese whispers.

In this day an age misinformation doesn't just start from malicious sources, they can start from badly worded or incorrect official sources too. In making that statement about checking shopping baskets, the Police have actually started a round of fake news, and the latest one about the non-essential isles will be fuelling that further. Someone very high up needs to get a grip very, very quickly.

I am ex-police and the frustrating thing about this whole sorry business is that the pondlife who cough & spit at police & other emergency workers are just not being punished enough because Judge's & Magistrates are purposely trying to avoid giving offenders custodial sentences because they do not want to contaminate prison environments with Covid19. In a way, these idiots who abuse our emergency service personnel are getting a 'get out of jail' card because of the epidemic.

The comment from Nick Adderley, Chief Constable of Northamptonshire about checking people's shopping trolleys & baskets is going one step too far in my opinion. I actually served in the same force as Adderley when he was a Superintendent/Chief Superintendent. He is actually a really nice bloke but I don't think he does himself any favours with some of his comments & statements to the media. His involvement in the Harry Dunn death last August was a little embarrassing particularly his comments on social media at the time which has understandably outraged the family.

CJ

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know for a fact there’s people out there who are doing shop crawls. A friend / colleague of mine is off shielding for 12 weeks having suffered a stroke a couple of years ago. Every day he phones me for a catch up, and every time it’s when his wife is dragging him round shop after shop. He remains in the car, but is still extremely aware that she could be picking it up and at risk of passing it on. The things people do for love!

Shop crawls? Presumably so they can get everything they want? It's not like it's a pleasant experience! I hate supermarkets normally...

 

[Bantamzen]

I am ex-police and the frustrating thing about this whole sorry business is that the pondlife who cough & spit at police & other emergency workers are just not being punished enough because Judge's & Magistrates are purposely trying to avoid giving offenders custodial sentences because they do not want to contaminate prison environments with Covid19. In a way, these idiots who abuse our emergency service personnel are getting a 'get out of jail' card because of the epidemic.

And I totally agree with you, they are pondlife and need dealing with.

The comment from Nick Adderley, Chief Constable of Northamptonshire about checking people's shopping trolleys & baskets is going one step too far in my opinion. I actually served in the same force as Adderley when he was a Superintendent/Chief Superintendent. He is actually a really nice bloke but I don't think he does himself any favours with some of his comments & statements to the media. His involvement in the Harry Dunn death last August was a little embarrassing particularly his comments on social media at the time which has understandably outraged the family.

CJ

It was definitely a step too far, I've potentially seen first hand this morning the consequences of it with people actually believing it will happen. This what people like the Chief Constable need to understand, you must be accurate in what you say because messages can get out to millions of people in a matter of minutes. Lessons need to be learnt here I think.

 

[Domh245]

Perhaps they're just desperately trying every last shop in the hope of finding some flour!