Restoring Your Railway Fund: what ideas would you suggest?

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On this website for the last few years or so, there has been long discussions on the reopening of the Colne to Skipton line, with both freight and passenger traffic being discussed. Would there be any reason why that particular aspiration has not appeared on this new list?

 

[JonathanH]

On this website for the last few years or so, there has been long discussions on the reopening of the Colne to Skipton line, with both freight and passenger traffic being discussed. Would there be any reason why that particular aspiration has not appeared on this new list?

It involves a new line being built - all of the proposals approved for more consideration involve routes with track in situ (other than a possible extension to Ventnor). I can't quite determine whether getting a service between Clitheroe and Hellifield (which has equally been discounted on this forum) would be good or bad for Colne to Skipton.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Or maybe Heywood would have a direct service to Manchester using the South facing curve !

That option is not mentioned in the line in the statement. Heywood station was always seen as a fair distance away from the town centre.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I was wondering that myself Paul. It would give another great Transpennine route too.

 

[deltic]

On this website for the last few years or so, there has been long discussions on the reopening of the Colne to Skipton line, with both freight and passenger traffic being discussed. Would there be any reason why that particular aspiration has not appeared on this new list?

Because the business case doesnt stack up and is unlikely to do so no many times its relooked at.

 

[yorksrob]

That option is not mentioned in the line in the statement. Heywood station was always seen as a fair distance away from the town centre.

Well, I've trudged from Atherton station to the town centre enough times, so I suppose Heywood wouldn't be much further !

 

[Ianno87]

The Abbey Line is a bit of a surprise, to say the least. Really hope it is the passing loop though. Wonder if the consultancy work that was already done to identify the preferred options for it helped in that regard?

Presumably any previous design work will still be valid, and it'll be more a case of producing or updating the business case.

At least the new bay platform at Rochdale faces the right direction for this aspiration. I wonder if Broadfield will be reopened?

Or maybe Heywood would have a direct service to Manchester using the South facing curve !

South-facing would be considerably more sensible than north-facing.

Being clever, might help take some terminating trains out of Victoria. This one might be an unexpected dark horse...

I understand the cynicism that it is a political diversion away from the Cummings breaking rules fiasco etc but...... I still see a lot of positivity regarding railways from HS2 , decarbonization, and reversing Beeching that overall I am encouraged as opposed to the failing Grayling days.

I just fear that the "reversing Beeching" schtick is to *sound* like more stuff is being done than it actually is. Appealing to people who like the idea of reopenings without any real idea of the costs (usually under-egged by supporters) against benefits (usually over-egged)

However, of the list revealed today, one or two of them (the most credible ones) happening wouldn't be a bad result.

 

[Ianno87]

Well, I've trudged from Atherton station to the town centre enough times, so I suppose Heywood wouldn't be much further !

Though Heywood would be better placed serving housing areas as a commute to Manchestee rather than trying to draw people into the town.

 

[Ianno87]

On this website for the last few years or so, there has been long discussions on the reopening of the Colne to Skipton line, with both freight and passenger traffic being discussed. Would there be any reason why that particular aspiration has not appeared on this new list?

I was wondering that myself Paul. It would give another great Transpennine route too.

I just see high costs without enough benefits to justify them with Skipton-Colne.

"Great Transpennine Route" - if you ignore the one that already exists by turning right at Gannow Jn rather than left.

 

[yorksrob]

South-facing would be considerably more sensible than north-facing.

Being clever, might help take some terminating trains out of Victoria. This one might be an unexpected dark horse...

Yes, it would be the ideal turnback solution.

Two birds with one stone !

 

[yorksrob]

Though Heywood would be better placed serving housing areas as a commute to Manchestee rather than trying to draw people into the town.

Yes, I would have expected that to be the main benefit.

 

[bluenoxid]

On this website for the last few years or so, there has been long discussions on the reopening of the Colne to Skipton line, with both freight and passenger traffic being discussed. Would there be any reason why that particular aspiration has not appeared on this new list?

The work on this aspiration is more advanced than the Strategic Outline Business Case, so their funding requirements are more substantial. It should be announced as part of a different funding pot.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I just see high costs without enough benefits to justify them with Skipton-Colne.

"Great Transpennine Route" - if you ignore the one that already exists by turning right at Gannow Jn rather than left.

I here what you are saying and other stuff should come first. TP upgrade and electrification in full followed by rolling programme Selby Hull etc. Full Calder valley upgrade and electrification and then Preston to Colne and then it could be argued Hope Valley. But Skipton Colne would be a useful add on imho

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well, I've trudged from Atherton station to the town centre enough times, so I suppose Heywood wouldn't be much further !

A perfect example of two wrongs do not make a right. There are regular buses to both town centres that pass both of those stations, such as the Atherton station being on the line of the bus service from Bolton-Atherton-Leigh and the Heywood station being on the line of the service 163 from Manchester-Heywood-Bury.

 

[yorksrob]

A perfect example of two wrongs do not make a right. There are regular buses to both town centres that pass both of those stations, such as the Atherton station being on the line of the bus service from Bolton-Atherton-Leigh and the Heywood station being on the line of the service 163 from Manchester-Heywood-Bury.

I find the bus is good for travelling from Atherton Station to Leigh, but if I need to get from the pub in Atherton back to the station for a train, it's handier to walk than wait around for a bus. I do have to time it right though !

 

[jonesy3001]

Shouldn't it be heywood-bury-rochdale or can the line be extended to rochdale from heywood?

 

[QQQ]

I'm surprised that Barrow Hill is on the list but not Stocksbridge: the two make more sense to me combined than Barrow Hill does on its own. I wouldn't have thought that trains from Barrow Hill are going to be allowed into Sheffield Midland station, given the capacity constraints and in particular that any eastbound train from Midland to Darnall has to cross the southbound line from Meadowhall, so they might as well continue towards Stocksbridge.

Is there any more detail about the Barrow Hill proposal available anywhere? Presumably Eckington and Killamarsh are the main communities they're thinking of.

 

[Mark J]

My thoughts/opinions/questions:

1) The Abbey line - Surely there is a case for reopening back to Hatfield, avoiding the need to travel into London and back out again to get to Hatfield?
2) Devizes - Is this being linked from the West, or from the East? There are only around a dozen properties in the way, preventing a full re-instatement of the line from east to west.
3) Isle of Wight - How will they get back to Ventnor? The trackbed in Wroxhall has been built over, unless there are proposals to CP these properties. Re-instating to Newport is somewhat easier, although a station would have to be on the outskirts of the town.
4) I am surprised that Marlborough hasn't been included yet. The existing Paddington to Bedwyn service could easily be extended to terminate at Marlborough instead - on a re-instated alignment - and actually terminating at somewhere of more significance.

 

[JonathanH]

2) Devizes - Is this being linked from the West, or from the East? There are only around a dozen properties in the way, preventing a full re-instatement of the line from east to west.

Not being linked at all, the station would be near Urchfont.

4) I am surprised that Marlborough hasn't been included yet. The existing Paddington to Bedwyn service could easily be extended to terminate at Marlborough instead - on a re-instated alignment - and actually terminating at somewhere of more significance.

I don't think that even has a serious campaigning group let alone the momentum for a bid to be made for development money.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Re IoW I agree electric bus is the best solution there, also spend some money on making the bus stations actually nice with good facilities. The Island Line should be retained as it is but incorporated into the bus ticketing system and bus services planned to connect with it. Through tickets from the mainland could of course be retained, but perhaps as a PlusBus type model.

 

[Mat17]

I'm surprised that Barrow Hill is on the list but not Stocksbridge: the two make more sense to me combined than Barrow Hill does on its own. I wouldn't have thought that trains from Barrow Hill are going to be allowed into Sheffield Midland station, given the capacity constraints and in particular that any eastbound train from Midland to Darnall has to cross the southbound line from Meadowhall, so they might as well continue towards Stocksbridge.

Additionally, I actually think continuing beyond Deepcar to Penistone would make even more sense, it could connect into Huddersfield and Barnsley services too then, sort of cover more ground, more links, more benefits. Huddersfield-Penistone-Deepcar-Fox Valley (Stocksbridge)-Wadsley Bridge-Victoria-Lincoln.

Just a thought.

 

[QQQ]

Additionally, I actually think continuing beyond Deepcar to Penistone would make even more sense, it could connect into Huddersfield and Barnsley services too then, sort of cover more ground, more links, more benefits. Huddersfield-Penistone-Deepcar-Fox Valley (Stocksbridge)-Wadsley Bridge-Victoria-Lincoln.

Just a thought.

Perhaps, although Stocksbridge would then be on a spur, and presumably the costs would increase considerably on the dismantled section between Deepcar and Penistone.

 

[Mat17]

Perhaps, although Stocksbridge would then be on a spur, and presumably the costs would increase considerably on the dismantled section between Deepcar and Penistone.

True to both. I was thinking something similar would happen as the reversal at Castleford when going from Kirkgate to Leeds on a stopper service, except the spur would be so much shorter. I do take the point that the section from Deepcar to Penistone would require much more funding however, but I think the benefits would be greater. It'd certainly help rectify the dire public transport links in the area. It would also be another little footstep towards Woodhead.

 

[duffield]

My thoughts/opinions/questions:

...
3) Isle of Wight - How will they get back to Ventnor? The trackbed in Wroxhall has been built over, unless there are proposals to CP these properties. Re-instating to Newport is somewhat easier, although a station would have to be on the outskirts of the town.
...

Wroxall is only a small place, it looks like you could fairly easily skirt round the edge via farmland to the East; the station wouldn't be ideally sited but it would only be 300m or so from the original central site. Of course, the terrain may make this a bit difficult but it seems pretty flat.

 

[DelW]

Extension to Ventnor - presumably an extension as far as Wroxall would be relatively easy to build, though I'm not sure how much extra demand that would be able to soak up - Wroxall isn't exactly big, though it is a tourist area. Looking on Google maps, I can't even figure out where the old line to Ventnor went (does anyone know?). Given how hilly the terrain is between Ventnor and Wroxall, I can't believe a line there would be easy to build, which I guess confirms your suspicions.

I can't believe there's any likelihood of reinstating the line to Ventnor. Apart from the new buildings at Wroxall, the tunnel has been used by Southern Water to accommodate water mains, and the station was always inconveniently placed, high up at the back of the town. The station site is now full of industrial units which would have to be relocated.

IIRC Stagecoach tried a dedicated bus link from Shanklin station, but it didn't last long.

Ventnor is a pleasant little place, but it's not large, and the Vectis bus stops are far more conveniently located than the station.

 

[Mikey C]

I've always thought that the IoW had a very decent bus network, fast and frequent enough for most needs

 

[Tobbes]

I can't believe there's any likelihood of reinstating the line to Ventnor. Apart from the new buildings at Wroxall, the tunnel has been used by Southern Water to accommodate water mains, and the station was always inconveniently placed, high up at the back of the town. The station site is now full of industrial units which would have to be relocated.

IIRC Stagecoach tried a dedicated bus link from Shanklin station, but it didn't last long.

Ventnor is a pleasant little place, but it's not large, and the Vectis bus stops are far more conveniently located than the station.

Ah, this now make much more sense, as the brilliantly disguised plan is clearly to reopen the IoW Central to both Newport and Ventnor (West) via Merstone! This will immediately and fundamentally change the economics of the proposal, and opens the way to relaying the line to Freshwater in due course. All to be operated by new build biomass fuelled 02s, of course.

 

[Thebaz]

Have just seen this list and am both surprised and dismayed not to see Uckfield-Lewes/Brighton on it. I'm fairly certain that the BML2 group would have submitted a proposal (again). I fear this will put the kibosh on reopening this link for good now.

Also surprised not to see Bere Alston-Tavistock or as someone else mentioned, Crediton-Okehampton - which has already seen successful reintroduction of summer weekend services. Maybe because there are already firm plans in place?

Anyone know if there's a way of viewing all the submissions?

 

[swt_passenger]

Have just seen this list and am both surprised and dismayed not to see Uckfield-Lewes/Brighton on it. I'm fairly certain that the BML2 group would have submitted a proposal (again). I fear this will put the kibosh on reopening this link for good now.

Also surprised not to see Bere Alston-Tavistock or as someone else mentioned, Crediton-Okehampton - which has already seen successful reintroduction of summer weekend services. Maybe because there are already firm plans in place?

Anyone know if there's a way of viewing all the submissions?

There was an earlier (now closed) thread trying to keep tabs of a list of all the various applications (suggestions?), but I’ve never seen detailed submissions of individual cases online:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/restoring-your-railway-fund-what-ideas-would-you-suggest.200966/page-6#post-4587217

...and both your suggestions seem to be there...

 

[Bald Rick]

There was an earlier (now closed) thread trying to keep tabs of a list of all the various applications (suggestions?), but I’ve never seen detailed submissions of individual cases online:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/restoring-your-railway-fund-what-ideas-would-you-suggest.200966/page-6#post-4587217

...and both your suggestions seem to be there...

I treat that list with a large pinch of salt. I’m aware of at least a dozen schemes that were submitted that aren’t on that list, an I haven’t seen the full list of those submitted.