UK face coverings discussion

[carlberry]

So much a libertarian that he is the only person in GB that has ever bought water cannon, with the intention of using them on the public, and a job lot of three of them rather than a single buy as a trial run!

PS said water cannon sold with a £300,000 loss.

He was only going to use them on people who didnt agree what a libertarian he was!

 

[MikeWM]

Just walked past a teenage couple in the street. Both masked. Walking along the street, very late at night, barely a soul around.

Only other person I saw on my walk was a man walking a dog. No mask, happily, but still decided to walk in the middle of the road rather than pass me on the (very wide) pavement.

I fear the human race is doomed

 

[talldave]

He was only going to use them on people who didnt agree what a libertarian he was!

Trivia: I used to live in Gravesend just down the road from where they were stored! A great place to live now if you're anti-mask.

 

[Mugby]

Yesterday (Saturday afternoon) I was in the Bullring Centre in Birmingham, I think it could be safely described as an 'enclosed space' and I observed at least 50%, if not more, of the shoppers not wearing masks. The sheer size of the place with it's many entrances and exits makes it well nigh impossible to enforce the rule, it simply wouldn't be feasible to employ enough staff to attempt to police it.

I was quite heartened to see such a mass display of civil disobedience, I hope it grows!

 

[bramling]

Yesterday (Saturday afternoon) I was in the Bullring Centre in Birmingham, I think it could be safely described as an 'enclosed space' and I observed at least 50%, if not more, of the shoppers not wearing masks. The sheer size of the place with it's many entrances and exits makes it well nigh impossible to enforce the rule, it simply wouldn't be feasible to employ enough staff to attempt to police it.

I was quite heartened to see such a mass display of civil disobedience, I hope it grows!

Pleasing to hear. It kind of ties in with my observations on transport - from a very slow start usage had climbed, but has dropped heavily. Likewise incorrect use is now even higher than it was.

My local Facebook has quite a bit of moaning about it, so the crazed maskophiles on there have evidently noted something similar. Must admit I was tempted to put something a bit acidic on there, but decided not to upset them further!

 

[Jonny]

Are people deliberately wearing masks that leave holes open over the nose and mouth (effectively anti-masks)?

 

[Jonny]

The other is that they listen to those who shout loudest, and recently that has been the very vocal maskivist lobby.

That is a brilliant point on its own, and the voices are starting to turn. The fact that Facebook has comments on comments is where the turn is showing. Also people are seeing that this may be a trick to get us to take a vaccine.

 

[Justin Smith]

We won’t though. Thanks to all the hysteria, stuff like face masks and social distancing are unlikely to completely disappear in my lifetime. Too many hysterical people still driving the agenda. The “just in case” types. Even if the virus completely disappeared today, we’d be told the restrictions must continue to prevent flu deaths etc. The genie cannot be put back in the bottle now.

I read this post and it thoroughly depressed me, even though it's just a post on a forum ! I thought this was supposed to be good news......

What worries me is that probably a majority of people in this country have a very poor grasp of risk probability, and when you link that in with the fact modern society (particularly in western democracies) is on a long term trend to do anything to reduce the possibility of death or injury* (regardless of how small the risk actually is) it is worrying. The latter excepts driving obviously, hardly anyone worries about that despite the fact that (relatively speaking) it is risky....... Even worse the fact is this country has revealed itself to be, as we used to say at school, a bunch of "scaredy cats". Some people are acting like they're off their heads, I dislike seeing face masks on people, but when I see children in them I feel like screaming. Why oh why would anyone put their young child in one when they don't even have to ? The world is literally going absolutely mad.

On the other hand, I phoned one of my friends (who is not rabidly opposed to face coverings, as I and my wife are) and even he said people wouldn't put up with having to wear face masks for the long term.

* A relevant example on a railway forum are the recent edicts from most heritage railways banning shed access, and it's all going one way......

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Good Morning,

All being well I shall be travelling from London To Bristol Parkway in a few days time. I will be wearing face Masks, but it is OK to remove these on the train or stations for a short time while eating a sandwich or sipping water etc?
Tks.

 

[Huntergreed]

Yes, it is entirely permitted to remove your mask to eat/drink according to the legislation, so this will be fine

 

[cactustwirly]

When you are on a business's premises you have to comply with the law and whatever policy they decide to set, whichever is stricter (unless that policy infringes on a protected characteristic, which this doesn't). If you disregard the latter they can unilaterally withdraw your permission to be there and remove you (using reasonable force if necessary) as a trespasser.

Well the police can't do anything about trespassing on commercial property, as it's a civil offence not a criminal one.

 

[DelW]

That is a brilliant point on its own, and the voices are starting to turn. The fact that Facebook has comments on comments is where the turn is showing. Also people are seeing that this may be a trick to get us to take a vaccine.

Why should we need to be "tricked" into using a vaccine? Vaccines have saved millions of people from serious illness or death caused by diseases like polio, smallpox and measles which are now almost unknown in much of the world. Do you really think we'd be better off without them?

 

[43066]

unless that policy infringes on a protected characteristic, which this doesn't

What about diabetics who are required to eat food at regular periods to control their blood sugar levels? Presumably the railway no longer wants their business.

No eating/drinking is yet another ridiculous, unenforceable, policy from a TOC. Let’s just hope it’s the office staff making these decisions who end up out on their ears, when passengers don’t return as predicted, and the government gets fed up with subsidising an almost empty railway.

 

[duncanp]

Yesterday (Saturday afternoon) I was in the Bullring Centre in Birmingham, I think it could be safely described as an 'enclosed space' and I observed at least 50%, if not more, of the shoppers not wearing masks. The sheer size of the place with it's many entrances and exits makes it well nigh impossible to enforce the rule, it simply wouldn't be feasible to employ enough staff to attempt to police it.

I was quite heartened to see such a mass display of civil disobedience, I hope it grows!

I was in the Bull Ring Centre in Birmingham yesterday, and my observations regarding mask wearing were about the same as yours.

I was one of the people not wearing a mask whilst walking round the centre, although I did put it on when going into a shop.

I agree wholeheartedly with you about civil disobedience regarding mask wearing, and I too hope it grows.

As with the lockdown itself, people will grow tired of wearing these wretched face nappies, and staff will grow tired of trying to enforce the rules.

There is an exemption for shop staff because it is recognised that it uncomfortable for them to wear one all day.

Er, has no-one thought that also applies to members of the public as well, which could partly explain the low footfall in many high street.

 

[talldave]

What about diabetics who are required to eat food at regular periods to control their blood sugar levels?

No eating/drinking is yet another ridiculous, unenforceable, policy from a TOC. Let’s just hope it’s the office staff making these decisions who end up out on their ears, when passengers don’t return as predicted, and the government gets fed up with subsidising an almost empty railway.

As I've said before, there appears to be a certain type of person that gets a power trip from ordering people about. Whether they're painting stupid arrows on pavements or shouting "do this, don't do that" at people in stations & supermarkets, they're having a field day with this pandemic.

The problem is that, having got away with it for months on end, it's going to be difficult to stop them. Ignoring the shouters is easy but removing the millions of "stay safe" signs & graffiti examples from our towns will take a bit more effort.

Removing the plastic barriers stealing half the road for pedestrians and the wooden planter boxes shutting off roads for Covid-19 (wtf?) would take serious equipment.

 

[43066]

As I've said before, there appears to be a certain type of person that gets a power trip from ordering people about. Whether they're painting stupid arrows on pavements or shouting "do this, don't do that" at people in stations & supermarkets, they're having a field day with this pandemic.

Agreed. It’s a liberating feeling going into a shop or travelling by train without a mask! It’s heartening to see that increasing numbers of people are now turning their backs on this nonsense.

Removing the plastic barriers stealing half the road for pedestrians and the wooden planter boxes shutting off roads for Covid-19 (wtf?) would take serious equipment.

That’s happened around my way too. I honestly can’t see any rational justification for it. I suspect many local councils are populated by locktivists and mask enthusiasts who are also anti car, and Covid gives them an excuse.

The sooner furlough is ended the better. There are clearly many people with too much time on their hands at the moment.

 

[43066]

Why should we need to be "tricked" into using a vaccine? Vaccines have saved millions of people from serious illness or death caused by diseases like polio, smallpox and measles which are now almost unknown in much of the world. Do you really think we'd be better off without them?

That’s a complete straw man argument.

Nobody is talking about vaccines in general. However, many are concerned about this vaccine, in particular, due to the way it’s being rushed. And of course there’s a perverse incentive for governments/health regulatory authorities to get it approved.

And there is a viewpoint that the main motivation behind masks is clearly to act as a constant visual reminder of the “deadly killer virus”. Keeping the population scared keeps it malleable.

 

[GB]

Well the police can't do anything about trespassing on commercial property, as it's a civil offence not a criminal one.

Not quite correct. Trespass may be a civil matter but aggravated trespass is not and you can be arrested for it.

 

[DelW]

Nobody is talking about vaccines in general. However, many are concerned about this vaccine, in particular, due to the way it’s being rushed. And of course there’s a perverse incentive for governments/health regulatory authorities to get it approved.

I'd agree with that last sentence, and I have concerns about the Russian vaccine which does seem to have been rushed into general use. But there is a social media driven campaign against all vaccines, especially in the US. However I don't know whether Jonny (the poster I replied to) believes in that or not.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a gentle reminder that we are discussing face coverings not vaccines in this thread. Thanks.

 

[yorkie]

For discussion on the Russian vaccine see: Russia has approved a vaccine

For discussion on the Oxdord vaccine see: Oxford Vaccine phase one trial shows great promise

For discussion regarding what happens if too many people refuse to take the vaccine see: What if herd immunity can't be reached with a vaccine, as too many refuse to have it?

 

[cactustwirly]

Not quite correct. Trespass may be a civil matter but aggravated trespass is not and you can be arrested for it.

But eating in a station isn't aggravated trespass is it?

 

[43066]

For discussion on the Russian vaccine see: Russia has approved a vaccine

For discussion on the Oxdord vaccine see: Oxford Vaccine phase one trial shows great promise

For discussion regarding what happens if too many people refuse to take the vaccine see: What if herd immunity can't be reached with a vaccine, as too many refuse to have it?

Thanks, I have relied to @DelW on the vaccine refusal thread .

 

[trainophile]

Vaguely amused by this Avanti on train poster, which appears to suggest that you also cover your eyes.

Redirect Notice

(Image is of a mannequin type head with a black mask covering almost up to the forehead, with no eyes visible)

 

[GB]

But eating in a station isn't aggravated trespass is it?

Who said anything about that. I was replying to your comment the police can’t do anything about trespass on commercial property which they can. But if you want to stick to the railways then all forms of trespass are illegal and if you have been asked to leave because you aren’t following their rules and refuse to leave yes you can be arrested.

 

[43066]

Vaguely amused by this Avanti on train poster, which appears to suggest that you also cover your eyes.

Redirect Notice

(Image is of a mannequin type head with a black mask covering almost up to the forehead, with no eyes visible)

Horrendous. Maybe it’s just me, but there’s something deeply sinister and disturbing about that image.

 

[Bantamzen]

Horrendous. Maybe it’s just me, but there’s something deeply sinister and disturbing about that image.

Its not just you, that really feels like a dystopian image.

 

[Mojo]

If this was about safety and preventing droplets from getting out, then why are these masks with the valves allowed?

Originally most people were wearing single-fabric or surgical type masks, however of late I have seen a larger number of people wearing masks with a valve, either “fashion” masks or ones that exist for DIY purposes, presumably because they have realised how uncomfortable “real” masks are. But having a valve surely defeats the purpose?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

If masks were actually beneficial, for reasons supported by the science, then proper masks to an appropriate standard could / should / would have been mandated. Not any old bit of cloth or low grade mask.

The fact that any old tat of random specification / performance meets the grade says it all.

 

[trainophile]

If masks were actually beneficial, for reasons supported by the science, then proper masks to an appropriate standard could / should / would have been mandated. Not any old bit of cloth or low grade mask.

The fact that any old tat of random specification / performance meets the grade says it all.

Exactly. They obviously think we're all stupid. I saw a cartoon of a blonde (sorry for any offence caused to blondes, but it was to make the point) wearing a crocheted mask with holes the size of wire netting. Wonder how far in that direction we could go before they accept the nonsense of the current ruling.