West Lothian buses

[JurassicMan]

Been watching this thread for a while (14 months i think?) , now feel like its time to speak up. It's my first post, so please don't be to harsh for me.

Seeing changes announced today I am more than positive than Lothian Contry is very confident about its success in West Lothian and now only wants to put the last nail to the First coffin simply "suffocating" them from passengers by driving few minutes ahead on LITERALLY every route. Example: 281 . It's obvious it will be scheduled 2-3 minutes before 26 from Fauldhouse. It's the last significant bit of viable corridors where First was still running without any pressure. Go look on services 21, 23, 25, 27 - all dead now, empty Streetlites following occupied green deckers. Facts.
All regular timatebles updates in last year are consistent in puting LC vehicles in front of those of FSE. Strategy simple as that and you don't need any fancy ideas, only need to be patient.
Night service? First cannot even dream now about demand for it
Prove me wrong, but in my opinion LC has already gathered too significant piece of West Lothian cake to loose it at the end. Reinstating x38 and ex2 is only case of time.
Congratulations Lothian Country! Job well done!

OK I will bite

26A Runs in front of X17 FROM LOGANLEA X17 double decker 90% empty
x24 Runs ahead of 275 from broxburn double decker 90% empty
x25 from blackridge runs ahead of 280

i could go on but basically its swings and Roundabouts and really a mute point as timetables will always be liable to change.

I will agree though x22 and X23 are running empty from edinburgh ,X22 does a little on the West Lothian and Shotts part but I dont see them being part of First long term plan in their current form. I already said in an earlier post the X27 ,X28 AND X18 will remain in some form for Lothian

12 MONTHS ago I may have agreed with your assumption about "being patient" however its pretty obvious with Mathew Gregorys new outlook for Firstgroup it involves UK BUS and its no coincidence they have just scooped £5.2 million from lothian in contracts(it will take a lifetime in West Lothian to gather that amount)
The tour business is ticking along again taking Lothian cash and it wont be a massive shock if the next target involves competition for the 100 service based on First Glasgow 500 service.
#A job well done in removing many millions from Lothian buses whilst LCB potter around West lothian picking up peanuts and not even getting close to covering costs of the operation.

its a long game for sure and its pretty obvious Firstgroup now see that losing this market is not an option as part of the UK bus strategy going forward.

 

[2Fat2Furious]

12 MONTHS ago I may have agreed with your assumption about "being patient" however its pretty obvious with Mathew Gregorys new outlook for Firstgroup it involves UK BUS and its no coincidence they have just scooped £5.2 million from lothian in contracts(it will take a lifetime in West Lothian to gather that amount)
The tour business is ticking along again taking Lothian cash and it wont be a massive shock if the next target involves competition for the 100 service based on First Glasgow 500 service.
#A job well done in removing many millions from Lothian buses whilst LCB potter around West lothian picking up peanuts and not even getting close to covering costs of the operation.

You're right that securing funds and creating long distance strategy is important and First did already a lot in to secure some cash for few years,
but you cannot underestimate the trend how Lothian Country very quickly gained trust in so many passengers in the area. Their PR is overwhelming, it is enough to check their social media to see what difference they made since they arrived here. In my opinion Lothian Country did very good job on creating impression of local, trusted, "your next door" transport company that can finally give people rest from unpredictable, non-transparent and detached from local community corporation, who milks people without asking people for their opinion.
What I mean is that i, regular passenger of Lothian Country feel that they listen, communicate with me and change accordingly. Priceless impression, never had it being First passenger.

First can secure funds to run for years, but it will be worth nothing if majority of passengers will choose Lothian Country. Empty buses won't win them anything.

 

[overthewater]

YET, they have broken that trust by pulling off routes and leaving areas without any Lothian services, list is growing. X38 lasted what 4 months? The number of buses heading into Edinburgh has been reduced yet Broxburn is one of those areas without a train station, so Lothian could have picked up here but they have failed..

Lothian has also failed to sort out its weekly tickets which is still a big reason why they have never been able to tip the scales into its favour. After 2 whole years Lothian has still not picked up the majority of passengers. Where is this Knock out blow?

If things were done differently Lothian could have king of West lothian but not now, the profits of the tours are down, profits else were are done, Lothian does not have endless supply of money, they would be better off trying to boost its operations which would integrate west lothian passengers into the city.

 

[2Fat2Furious]

YET, they have broken that trust by pulling off routes and leaving areas without any Lothian services, list is growing.

Thats actually quite interesting argument. In fact most of my friends who use buses prefer to forgive Lothian and give them second chance, rather than embrace Firsts poor idea for public transport. Even today my friend from Fauldhouse texted me that will be gladly using Lothian again, as he is fed up with First buses not coming up again, since x17 was cut shorter. First brand is simply done here, necessary evil, nothing more.

 

[overthewater]

But if X17 was that good why was it pulled in the first place? its clear most of the passengers stayed with first.

 

[JurassicMan]

You're right that securing funds and creating long distance strategy is important and First did already a lot in to secure some cash for few years,
but you cannot underestimate the trend how Lothian Country very quickly gained trust in so many passengers in the area. Their PR is overwhelming, it is enough to check their social media to see what difference they made since they arrived here. In my opinion Lothian Country did very good job on creating impression of local, trusted, "your next door" transport company that can finally give people rest from unpredictable, non-transparent and detached from local community corporation, who milks people without asking people for their opinion.
What I mean is that i, regular passenger of Lothian Country feel that they listen, communicate with me and change accordingly. Priceless impression, never had it being First passenger.

First can secure funds to run for years, but it will be worth nothing if majority of passengers will choose Lothian Country. Empty buses won't win them anything.

I totally agree when it comes to social media and PR Lothian leave Firsts centralised (in leeds) attempts well behind however it is dangerous assumption that Social media opinion is a gauge of public feeling and the fact so many still choose to travel with First after 2 years must be gauling to aggressive nature in which Lothian expected everyone to jump ship (probably based on Social media) with their "Were coming" type intital propoganda.
The fact First still offer the cheapest tickets and best value and the simple deduction that 2years down the line LCB havent gotten to the "majority" must be quite alarming for those counting the beans .

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Sep 2020 ==

If things were done differently Lothian could have king of West lothian but not now, the profits of the tours are down, profits else were are done, Lothian does not have endless supply of money, they would be better off trying to boost its operations which would integrate west lothian passengers into the city.

Exactly for many years TOURS ,AIRPORT and Tenders were basically "free money" its no coincidence First have targeted these.

 

[CN04NRJ]

It wont be a massive shock if the next target involves competition for the 100 service based on First Glasgow 500 service.
#A job well done in removing many millions from Lothian buses whilst LCB potter around West lothian picking up peanuts and not even getting close to covering costs of the operation.

its a long game for sure and its pretty obvious Firstgroup now see that losing this market is not an option as part of the UK bus strategy going forward.

I think your fantasy airport service is incomprehensible in the current climate, with air travel not expected to recover for years. As far as I understand the 100 is contracted anyway so a competing commercial service would be at a disadvantage before it even begun.


Unless you're a significant First shareholder I don't see why you take such delight in First 'taking Lothian's millions'. When I first started driving buses in 2009 I drove for a company involved in an incredibly bitter bus war and even that pales in comparison to some of the hate and vitriol spouted by armchair enthusiasts in this stupid First vs Lothian 'war'.


I've said it before and I'll say it again - I find it baffling how people (most of which aren't employed or are invested in either company) can hold so much spite towards one company or the other to the point they want one to collapse with the loss of huhdreds/thousands of jobs. Bizarre.

 

[2Fat2Furious]

But if X17 was that good why was it pulled in the first place? its clear most of the passengers stayed with first.

2 resons in my opinion: 1) They pulled it simply too quickly, didn't have enough time to persuade passengers to switch. 2) Lothian wasn't providing direct connection with Whitburn and Bathgate. Now fixed, Lothian should give it second try.

 

[CN04NRJ]

The tour business is ticking along again taking Lothian cash

Hopefully some of this cash can go towards uniform other than polo shirts, jeans and trainers!

 

[overthewater]

2 resons in my opinion: 1) They pulled it simply too quickly, didn't have enough time to persuade passengers to switch. 2) Lothian wasn't providing direct connection with Whitburn and Bathgate. Now fixed, Lothian should give it second try.

So the X17 was a problem then as it wasnt the route in the first place?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I find it baffling how people (most of which aren't employed or are invested in either company) can hold so much spite towards one company or the other to the point they want one to collapse with the loss of huhdreds/thousands of jobs. Bizarre.

Long term, something has to give, its not nice but its clearly the truth. Lothian could have created a nice new market for its self instead if gone after First passengers, not very successfully.. I wanted the Green arrow to work but the concept created by the then current management was bonkers and whats happend?

 

[JurassicMan]

I think your fantasy airport service is incomprehensible in the current climate, with air travel not expected to recover for years. As far as I understand the 100 is contracted anyway so a competing commercial service would be at a disadvantage before it even begun.


Unless you're a significant First shareholder I don't see why you take such delight in First 'taking Lothian's millions'. When I first started driving buses in 2009 I drove for a company involved in an incredibly bitter bus war and even that pales in comparison to some of the hate and vitriol spouted by armchair enthusiasts in this stupid First vs Lothian 'war'.


I've said it before and I'll say it again - I find it baffling how people (most of which aren't employed or are invested in either company) can hold so much spite towards one company or the other to the point they want one to collapse with the loss of huhdreds/thousands of jobs. Bizarre.

I recall similar being said when the BBT was mentioned and how it was "fantasy" to think lothians monopoly would be tackled!!

I dont recall saying I wanted jobs lost ?
I doubt very much either will "collapse" as a result of this latest spat.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Sep 2020 ==

Hopefully some of this cash can go towards uniform other than polo shirts, jeans and trainers!

Why? Tourists are on holiday they care not a jot about uniforms or looking like a prison officer ,they want friendly, jovial and value and if you look on the reviews platform you will see its not an issue and is proving quite the opposite

 

[CN04NRJ]

Why? Tourists are on holiday they care not a jot about uniforms or looking like a prison officer ,they want friendly, jovial and value and if you look on the reviews platform you will see its not an issue and is proving quite the opposite

I think most people would agree with me here that when on holiday in a foreign country, especially somewhere that's renowned as a world class city, I'd feel a bit put off by scruffy appearing staff touting for my business and look for a more professional appearing option.

Do you honestly think that the appearance of staff makes no impression on prospective customers? As for your comment about 'prison officers' - I think that speaks for itself and doesn't deserve a response.

 

[GusB]

Okay, people - please keep it civil. It's possible to have a robust debate without hurling insults about. Peace and Love

 

[Jordan Adam]

Hopefully some of this cash can go towards uniform other than polo shirts, jeans and trainers!

The more casual look is deliberate and i don't see any issue with it. I could understand if they were going about looking unwashed with torn clothes but they're not. I don't really think the average passenger cares that much, they see a open top bus and they potentially see that it's cheaper even if it does cover less area.

The 281 is "coming back" it ran from Deans to Loganlea not so long ago. Now same number different route just for a bit of confusion

Indeed but you've read my post wrong, people were assuming the new 281 was the old 287 route (now covered by the 275) but renumbered rather than thinking the old 281 was coming back.

Me too! Suddenly 27 became some Livi circular, 28 was gone and 21 with 22 didn't bother to go past Livingston. Appreciate that Lothian Country brought back X27 and x28 so quickly, so you knew where you go.

That's part of a network change and entirely irrelevant to the point which was that simple two digit numbers are easier to remember than 3 digit numbers, that's why many Stagecoach routes up here in particular have been renumbered from 3 digit numbers to 2 digit numbers. The average punter is more likely to remember that the 25 goes to Bathgate rather than the X27, 280 & 281. Arguably in the 2018 changes First simplified things by ditching the 21/21A/21B/21C/22A/22C in favour of a more simple 24/25/600, Likewise the 800/801/802 became the 26/26A.

i could go on but basically its swings and Roundabouts and really a mute point as timetables will always be liable to change.

I will agree though x22 and X23 are running empty from edinburgh ,X22 does a little on the West Lothian and Shotts part but I dont see them being part of First long term plan in their current form. I already said in an earlier post the X27 ,X28 AND X18 will remain in some form for Lothian

12 MONTHS ago I may have agreed with your assumption about "being patient" however its pretty obvious with Mathew Gregorys new outlook for Firstgroup it involves UK BUS and its no coincidence they have just scooped £5.2 million from lothian in contracts(it will take a lifetime in West Lothian to gather that amount)
The tour business is ticking along again taking Lothian cash and it wont be a massive shock if the next target involves competition for the 100 service based on First Glasgow 500 service.
#A job well done in removing many millions from Lothian buses whilst LCB potter around West lothian picking up peanuts and not even getting close to covering costs of the operation.

its a long game for sure and its pretty obvious Firstgroup now see that losing this market is not an option as part of the UK bus strategy going forward.

I agree.

The X22/X23 are First's real weak point, the fact they're often using the 10.8M Streetlites on it shows that, the X22 only really started because Lothian increased the X27/X28. Pulling out of Kirknewton meant that First could offer a faster service from Livingston to Edinburgh. The Shotts section of the X22 is partially funded if i'm not mistaken (previous the 701) so it should be safe, it would be nice to see a half hourly Livingston - Hamilton route as an amalgamation of the 266/X22 but that seems unlikely due to operational reasons. Keep in mind the 600 also goes to Whitburn now so that will have taken some passengers as that's a double in frequency.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Sep 2020 ==

The number of buses heading into Edinburgh has been reduced yet Broxburn is one of those areas without a train station, so Lothian could have picked up here but they have failed..

To add to that point if you look at Newbridge/Ratho Station in particular Lothian have went from having up to 15 buses per hour pre-covid to just 2 per hour. Granted they're not the highest populated areas but it's interesting to note regardless, particularly given that it was a corridor where Lothian seemed to be focused on "taking over" before.

 

[CN04NRJ]

The more casual look is deliberate and i don't see any issue with it. I could understand if they were going about looking unwashed with torn clothes but they're not. I don't really think the average passenger cares that much, they see a open top bus and they potentially see that it's cheaper even if it does cover less area.

I understand it's deliberate but it seems odd - I get they're presenting themselves as a low cost alternative but driving through Princes Street almost daily and occasionally taking BBT staff to work the uniform seems unnecessarily scruffy and like *all* (and I can't stress that enough) companies not all staff strive to present themselves the best they can. With a poor starting point once the uniform wears or isn't looked after/replaced properly it can leave a bad first impression.


It contrasts with their fleet that is a bit of a motley selection of elderly buses but they are very smartly presented and well kept. Maybe it's just me but it seems odd to opt for such a casual uniform - the ticket sellers are the first point of contact in most cases.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I understand it's deliberate but it seems odd - I get they're presenting themselves as a low cost alternative but driving through Princes Street almost daily and occasionally taking BBT staff to work the uniform seems unnecessarily scruffy and like *all* (and I can't stress that enough) companies not all staff strive to present themselves the best they can. With a poor starting point once the uniform wears or isn't looked after/replaced properly it can leave a bad first impression.


It contrasts with their fleet that is a bit of a motley selection of elderly buses but they are very smartly presented and well kept. Maybe it's just me but it seems odd to opt for such a casual uniform - the ticket sellers are the first point of contact in most cases.

I agree with the point you make but i just don't think it's that big of an issue in the eyes of the public. I do think it has been over exaggerated, particularly by Lothian employees - although to your credit you've got the point across without being derogatorily to the staff (same can't be said for some of the posts elsewhere!). In many holiday destinations abroad you will find that tour staff tend to dress more casual.

 

[Graham Alexand]

Been watching this thread for a while (14 months i think?) , now feel like its time to speak up. It's my first post, so please don't be to harsh for me.

Seeing changes announced today I am more than positive than Lothian Contry is very confident about its success in West Lothian and now only wants to put the last nail to the First coffin simply "suffocating" them from passengers by driving few minutes ahead on LITERALLY every route. Example: 281 . It's obvious it will be scheduled 2-3 minutes before 26 from Fauldhouse. It's the last significant bit of viable corridors where First was still running without any pressure. Go look on services 21, 23, 25, 27 - all dead now, empty Streetlites following occupied green deckers. Facts.
All regular timatebles updates in last year are consistent in puting LC vehicles in front of those of FSE. Strategy simple as that and you don't need any fancy ideas, only need to be patient.
Night service? First cannot even dream now about demand for it
Prove me wrong, but in my opinion LC has already gathered too significant piece of West Lothian cake to loose it at the end. Reinstating x38 and ex2 is only case of time.
Congratulations Lothian Country! Job well done!

Hi 2Fat2Furious, its very similar in Pumpherston the 275 shows up literally 2 minutes before the X24 going in both directions (Livingston and Edinburgh) its annoying and inconvenient.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Sep 2020 ==

A few people have already mistaken the 281 as the 287 coming back!

What i dont understand is some people complaining about the 287 being withdrawn when it was 100% replaced by the 275 with only a slight route within Livingston centre. And with the change gave new links to wester inch.

 

[Jordan Adam]

What i dont understand is some people complaining about the 287 being withdrawn when it was 100% replaced by the 275 with only a slight route within Livingston centre. And with the change gave new links to wester inch.

Agree that does seem stupid, the 275 is an improvement over the 287 as it goes a direct link east of Livingston.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Sep 2020 ==

The new timetables from the 14th September are now on Bustimes.org. On existing services change the date on the timetable to 14th September or later to see the new times.

Lothian Country Buses

bustimes.org

 

[scosutsut]

I think First actually hit a rare home run with Bright Bus Tours (BBT). They haven't tried to go toe to toe with Lothian's Edinburgh Bus Tours (EBT) operation and rightly so as they didn't want to invest that heavily and if they had the market would be saturated with two near identical options.

What they've done is invest a little, to cause a lot of pain. Whereas Lothian, with LCB have arguably done the opposite! Instead with BBT they've gone very much with more of an easyJet low cost approach to EBTs full service offering and I think that's been the masterstroke.

If you are visiting Edinburgh for a while and are happy taking multiple tours to see it all then EBT has you covered, and really well too.

If you're not around for so long, or you just want a quick tour then BBT now offers that option at a much lower cost. The (pre COVID) loadings for both operations seem to demonstrate that their is a market for both.

First will be over the moon as they've rolled a few quid into an operation and will likely be seeing a decent return on it already. The low investment levels will probably help it survive COVID too so it can keep on bringing in coin when things properly bounce back.

You'd think if the feedback was telling them people were put off by their staff appearance they'd invest to correct it - but like most corporates First won't spend a penny unless they'll see a buck so I think they'll view the 'look' as part of a successful formula that they are disinclined to change as it's working for them.

For EBT prices I'd expect them to be dressed as they are, but for BBT I'd accept it's part of the deal. Just like I don't expect table service in McDonalds but I'd be unimpressed if I had to order on a touchscreen and then get my food in a brown bag at Miller and Carter's!

My view on it anyway.

Edit - appreciate this could arguably be in with the BBT or Lothian thread before this one but I was chiming in on the earlier chat - mods please move if appropriate!

 

[scotrail158713]

Instead with BBT they've gone very much with more of an easyJet low cost approach

With all the orange it really is similar to EasyJet
I do agree with you though - it was a very smart, and seemingly successful, move from First.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think First actually hit a rare home run with Bright Bus Tours (BBT). They haven't tried to go toe to toe with Lothian's Edinburgh Bus Tours (EBT) operation and rightly so as they didn't want to invest that heavily and if they had the market would be saturated with two near identical options.

What they've done is invest a little, to cause a lot of pain. Whereas Lothian, with LCB have arguably done the opposite! Instead with BBT they've gone very much with more of an easyJet low cost approach to EBTs full service offering and I think that's been the masterstroke.

If you are visiting Edinburgh for a while and are happy taking multiple tours to see it all then EBT has you covered, and really well too.

If you're not around for so long, or you just want a quick tour then BBT now offers that option at a much lower cost. The (pre COVID) loadings for both operations seem to demonstrate that their is a market for both.

First will be over the moon as they've rolled a few quid into an operation and will likely be seeing a decent return on it already. The low investment levels will probably help it survive COVID too so it can keep on bringing in coin when things properly bounce back.

You'd think if the feedback was telling them people were put off by their staff appearance they'd invest to correct it - but like most corporates First won't spend a penny unless they'll see a buck so I think they'll view the 'look' as part of a successful formula that they are disinclined to change as it's working for them.

For EBT prices I'd expect them to be dressed as they are, but for BBT I'd accept it's part of the deal. Just like I don't expect table service in McDonalds but I'd be unimpressed if I had to order on a touchscreen and then get my food in a brown bag at Miller and Carter's!

My view on it anyway.

Edit - appreciate this could arguably be in with the BBT or Lothian thread before this one but I was chiming in on the earlier chat - mods please move if appropriate!

I fully agree with you (and think for the purposes of this discussion, it is inextricably linked).

We all know the travails of First Scotland East and the serial mismanagement of the Lothian operations etc. That's old ground. The fact is that in the last few years, First had begun to invest in its West Lothian operations with Streetlites (!) and e400mmc. They'd simplified the WL network but even so, it seemed an odd time for Lothian to consider this a good time to set up a competitive operation.

Not only that but that Lothian decided not to opt for a simple competitive operation that largely covered the best bits, doing so from existing resources. They went all in, new depot and then additional services with brand new and expensive fleet. Even more strangely, they introduced two express services with brand new fleet from relatively small towns/catchment with a parallel rail service. As a total strategy, I thought that seemed to be bold, for want of a better word.

Some people on this thread suggested that First would simply pack up (citing earlier exits like Northampton or North Devon) but that was always unlikely to happen. Similarly, it was unlikely that First were going to launch some huge onslaught on Lothian in their back yard. My view was that they would simply batten down the hatches, introduce a few extra runs over key corridors and try to starve Lothian's incursion and that's been broadly true. Some of the most expensive fleet (depreciation on e400mmc, fuel on B7TLs) have been moved on and they've been replaced by more frugal Streetlites.

What I hadn't anticipated, and don't believe anyone else suggested it, was First's attack on Lothian's lucrative open top tours market. Now this is what some people are failing to appreciate:

• The cost of entry has been kept low - old fleet, running in from Livi etc. The deliberately cheap and cheerful approach keeps in with that with the genuine (?) justification that it has been done to differentiate from the Lothian offering
• There is a genuine market segmentation of the market; some tourists will buy on quality and convenience, and some on price - that's why in the early 1990s, you'd have an official tour and then Guide Friday running tired ex Nottingham stuff (and not just in Edinburgh)

Had Lothian not entered WL, do people think First would have done this? It's a retaliatory move and the clear plan is to abstract trade from Lothian.

It's a clear "for every £3 fare you make in Livingston, you'll lose £x revenue on the Edinburgh open top market". That's not to say that Lothian are losing money on the open toppers. Nor that there isn't some organic growth on BBT with a product that is cheap enough to attract a bit more discretionary spend. However, First are doubtlessly taking more off Lothian for relatively little spend than Lothian are taking off First for much more investment.

The great unknown now is Covid. Should the X38 and EX2 not return then it will signal that part of the incursion has not succeeded. However, given the money they've invested in Livi, that they are consolidating some routes in the town shouldn't be a surprise. That's the latest chess move....one has to then ask what is the next one for First?

 

[overthewater]

First were planning a second tour, so I think we might see something next spring, on top of that First will be sharping it's pencil to get hold of a few more West lothian Tenders. They is a good chance they could win the no9, as it prefect bolt on to it's current no27 and it would have improve freq. The Only other opportunities is try retry routes to the Gyle, however I doubt they would try North edinburgh route.

 

[GusB]

I have copied posts from 5599 to the First Edinburgh Tours thread as there is some crossover in the last few posts. Please continue any discussion of Bright Bus Tours there.

First Group: Edinburgh Bus Tours

It's on employment website and FIRST website for jobs looking for JOBS, you can apply now and get this new job. It must be in the jobCentre aswell.... https://www.indeed.co.uk/m/viewjob?jk=3edfbf47b70e4624&from=appsharedroid&dupclk=0 PCV Tour Bus Driver First UK Bus - Edinburgh £10.50 an...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Graham Alexand]

I havent got a very good look at them but have the Gemini 2 B9TL's had driver protection shields fitted. (LothianCountry)

 

[OmniCity999]

I havent got a very good look at them but have the Gemini 2 B9TL's had driver protection shields fitted. (LothianCountry)

Of course they have.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

First were planning a second tour, so I think we might see something next spring, on top of that First will be sharping it's pencil to get hold of a few more West lothian Tenders. They is a good chance they could win the no9, as it prefect bolt on to it's current no27 and it would have improve freq. The Only other opportunities is try retry routes to the Gyle, however I doubt they would try North edinburgh route.

The West Lothian tenders won't be pivotal. Yes, they'll make some money in their own right (but not much) and soak up a bit of overhead. We may see a 2nd tour deferred given the tourist market. Those are peripheral concerns IMO.

The issue is the core area and services between and around Livi and Bathgate. Lothian have increased those to match First; what will First do, if anything, to respond.

 

[Graham Alexand]

Of course they have.

Ok thanks.

Does anyone know if the RIG 649x plate buses have been sold.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Ok thanks.

Does anyone know if the RIG 649x plate buses have been sold.

Volvo B7RLE RIG6495 : Sharpes Coaches, Nottingham.
Volvo B7RLE RIG6493 : Peelings Coaches, Kings Lynn.
Volvo B7RLE RIG6494 : Fowlers Coaches, Holbeach Drove, Lincs.

 

[Graham Alexand]

Volvo B7RLE RIG6495 : Sharpes Coaches, Nottingham.
Volvo B7RLE RIG6493 : Peelings Coaches, Kings Lynn.
Volvo B7RLE RIG6494 : Fowlers Coaches, Holbeach Drove, Lincs.

Thanks SpeedbirdA350

 

[Jordan Adam]

Have Lothian abandoned the LCB website? There's no up to date timetables, and the only mention of any service changes are the ones from the start of August which redirects you to the main Lothian website anyway. There's no mention of the new changes at all. Even under the "News" page the last update was in March almost half a year ago.