Train sitting in the station with doors locked, passengers waiting outside

[Taunton]

Your first sentence beggars belief or you are living in the very distant past.
If you leave unlock stock unattended round my way you will soon have it vandalised or have homeless sleepers in it.Williams

No! That's just complete hyperbole. An excuse for leaving the passengers out in the cold.

Alan Williams writing in Modern Railways found a typical example some time ago. Waiting at Edinburgh Waverley with a first class ticket outside the small first class compartment for the locked-up 17.30 to Glasgow, various Scotrail management staff going home to Glasgow came along, let themselves in with their key through the guard's compartment, and took all the best forward-facing window seats before the doors were opened. That's current; not the distant past.

 

[bb21]

No! That's just complete hyperbole. An excuse for leaving the passengers out in the cold.

Alan Williams writing in Modern Railways found a typical example some time ago. Waiting at Edinburgh Waverley with a first class ticket outside the small first class compartment for the locked-up 17.30 to Glasgow, various Scotrail management staff going home to Glasgow came along, let themselves in with their key through the guard's compartment, and took all the best forward-facing window seats before the doors were opened. That's current; not the distant past.

There are cases where staff acted unreasonably, but equally there are many good reasons why things are done the way they are and doors not unlocked until nearer departure time, some of which had already been given further upthread. Can they be improved in some cases? Yes, probably, and undoubtedly in some cases. Without knowing the exact circumstance it really is impossible to comment such as in the OP's case. None of that makes his claims "complete hyperbole".

 

[Horizon22]

Once at Waterloo our Reading train came in, believe from the depot. Various of us on the platform pressing the (unlit) button obviously with no luck. Driver walked past and told us the doors would be released when the guard arrived - which he did a few minutes later. Yes, a common situation even in this case just for a few minutes.

Not to mention this sort of scenario can often occur during service disruption. I find its generally better customer service to not board the train and allow people to wait on the concourse at a London terminal rather than standing around on the platform although I'm sure others would take the opposite approach, especially if there isn't much room.

 

[lachlan]

You are absolutely right. There is nothing wrong with providing the company with constructive feedback, which can be in the form of a complaint. Indeed the more people raise a particular issue, the more likely it will be treated with a higher priority. Volume of complaint is not a guarantee that a solution will necessarily be found, but it should help bring it onto the agenda for most companies. All complaints are logged, so yes you are doing absolutely the right thing.


I suspect that one may be a non-starter in the current environment given staffing constraints especially since the fallout of Covid, but again if you have useful feedback on how customer journey experience can be improved I am sure most companies will be appreciative of the comments.


All good points.

Thank you, and I do think the "more seating on platforms" would be the most viable way forward here!

Your first sentence beggars belief or you are living in the very distant past.
If you leave unlock stock unattended round my way you will soon have it vandalised or have homeless sleepers in it.
Unfortunately in this day and age you cannot leave anything unlocked and unattended.

While I don't disagree with this, the trains in Aberdeen are behind ticket barriers and they are sometimes left open for extended periods of time. Maybe there was an incident recently and they're being stricter?

 

[Sean Emmett]

Yes experienced this a few times. Can really stress out pax who arrive early, with luggage and kids. Or bikes etc (me!).

Scotrail prob the worst. Oban notorious. When busy why not let the pax with reservations claim their seats 15 mins prior to dep, then let rest on 10 mins before?
Avoids unruly scrum, let people settle down to enjoy the journey, etc. Is it really too much to ask?

 

[jfollows]

This used to happen with the Cardiff-Manchester services at the latter station - train arrived, emptied, then was locked closed whilst a couple of people did things inside the train such as applying seat reservation cards to appropriate seats.

It was highly irritating as a passenger. Ended up in a rushed scrum to get on a couple of minutes before departure time usually.

A number of years ago "they" stopped doing this, and let people get on immediately when the train arrived. It's much better now as a passenger. Being able to get on the train well in advance of departure if you happen to be there and the train happens to be there is good.

 

[PeterC]

I experienced this on the one time that I travelled from Aberdeen about 12 or 15 years ago. I appreciate that there are valid reasons not to unlock a train but as a paying customer I do expect to board when the train is announced not to have to stand for another 5 or 10 minutes on the platform.

 

[Wolfie]

There can't be any general rule on this as it's commonplace for trains to be left unlocked with no staff at the London terminals. In fact the timetable would probably be unworkable if they weren't.

They certainly aren't at Euston particularly if there is another train on the platform.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I remember back in February 2019 catching the 15:30 from Bristol Temple Meads back to Didcot Parkway (10-car IET). I was allowed on about 40 minutes before the train was due to leave. The engine was running which meant heating (being in the cold wet weather was not nice)!

I'd say personally, it's kind of better to not let passengers on when staff are doing checks on the train. This is because if there's a fault and people have sat down, it means everyone has to get up.

 

[mmh]

They certainly aren't at Euston particularly if there is another train on the platform.

However, they are at London Bridge, Charing Cross, Victoria...

 

[Mat17]

This is one of the many reasons why the old slam door trains were much better.

The 101s were sometimes locked up at Piccadilly if they were laying over for a while and only unlocked by dispatchers/guards shortly before they were due to depart. So it's been like this a while.

 

[yorksrob]

The 101s were sometimes locked up at Piccadilly if they were laying over for a while and only unlocked by dispatchers/guards shortly before they were due to depart. So it's been like this a while.

Routinely locking up slam door trains didn't seem to be a thing on the Southern, I must admit.

A 101 doesn't have many doors though.

 

[Steve Harris]

It's much less convenient if they end up on the wrong train. Unfortunately these days people seem less capable of reading screens or understanding the concept of 2 trains at a platform. Long before I worked on the railway it was obvious to me if there were 2 trains in a platform the first departure HAD to be the front train. That seems lost on people these days. The grief we get because "no one told me" is awful.

Indeed. People seem to be getting less intelligent (or are they getting more intelligent but have lowered common sense)?

As others have said trains are normally locked when multiple trains are in the same platform (or they are being cleaned etc).

I can remember station staff at my local station locking units "out of use" (ie locking the doors) of the rear unit when 2 units were in the same platform. As soon as the first unit had departed and the next service was formed by the rear unit then they would unlock it - That was back in the 90's.
Unfortunately progress seems to be that station staff can no longer lock/unlock units and rules have changed on setup checks etc, so passengers now have to wait on the platform (sometimes in the cold). So not as customer friendly as it used to be.

 

[stuu]

They certainly aren't at Euston particularly if there is another train on the platform.

The suburban trains definitely were when I commuted from there, when did that change?

 

[Tomnick]

A number of years ago "they" stopped doing this, and let people get on immediately when the train arrived. It's much better now as a passenger. Being able to get on the train well in advance of departure if you happen to be there and the train happens to be there is good.

The happiness is likely to be shortlived, though, if (a) the train goes out filthy and/or with toilets unstocked, bins overflowing etc., because the cleaners aren't able to do their job properly because of the number of passengers getting in their way or (b) you find yourself being turfed out of your seat once you're settled in because it's reserved but they hadn't yet placed the tickets out. In my experience, albeit on the periphery somewhat, it's far better to give the cleaners ten minutes or so to work uninterrupted when it's busy than to have them struggling right up to departure time, even more so when the train's just arrived off a five or six hour journey!

 

[Horizon22]

Indeed. People seem to be getting less intelligent (or are they getting more intelligent but have lowered common sense)?

As others have said trains are normally locked when multiple trains are in the same platform (or they are being cleaned etc).

This is indeed frustrating. There can be big notices on the CIS which include "FRONT TRAIN ONLY", general darkness in the rear set and even manual announcements and people still constantly mash the door open buttons in the rear set...

The suburban trains definitely were when I commuted from there, when did that change?

There's normally a difference between suburban trains with short turnarounds and intercity services which need time to be additionally cleaned, restocked etc. Most terminals have a mixed boarding approach depending on operator / stock etc.

 

[Wolfie]

The suburban trains definitely were when I commuted from there, when did that change?

Most LNWR trains are locked.

 

[yorksrob]

This is generally an issue at Leeds as well. It's a pain in winter, but also at other times due to the dearth of seating on platforms.

 

[jfollows]

The happiness is likely to be shortlived, though, if (a) the train goes out filthy and/or with toilets unstocked, bins overflowing etc., because the cleaners aren't able to do their job properly because of the number of passengers getting in their way or (b) you find yourself being turfed out of your seat once you're settled in because it's reserved but they hadn't yet placed the tickets out. In my experience, albeit on the periphery somewhat, it's far better to give the cleaners ten minutes or so to work uninterrupted when it's busy than to have them struggling right up to departure time, even more so when the train's just arrived off a five or six hour journey!

Fair enough, of course, but in this particular case they appear to have solved this by (a) managing the cleaning in some way and (b) putting the seat reservations in place before the end of the Cardiff-Manchester journey. My guess is that they analysed the problems and the complaints and came up with a solution that worked better for most people.

You're right to say that the train needs to be cleaned, but it seems as if there's a better solution to what was previously practiced. Since I only generally use the services for a short distance, I'm keen to have the seat reservations in place so that I can sit in an unreserved seat or one reserved from Wilmslow or beyond, and that seems to work well under the new arrangements.

 

[infobleep]

I remember back in February 2019 catching the 15:30 from Bristol Temple Meads back to Didcot Parkway (10-car IET). I was allowed on about 40 minutes before the train was due to leave. The engine was running which meant heating (being in the cold wet weather was not nice)!

I'd say personally, it's kind of better to not let passengers on when staff are doing checks on the train. This is because if there's a fault and people have sat down, it means everyone has to get up.

The happiness is likely to be shortlived, though, if (a) the train goes out filthy and/or with toilets unstocked, bins overflowing etc., because the cleaners aren't able to do their job properly because of the number of passengers getting in their way or (b) you find yourself being turfed out of your seat once you're settled in because it's reserved but they hadn't yet placed the tickets out. In my experience, albeit on the periphery somewhat, it's far better to give the cleaners ten minutes or so to work uninterrupted when it's busy than to have them struggling right up to departure time, even more so when the train's just arrived off a five or six hour journey!

I have been on trains where the cleaning takes place on route to the destination.

Eastbourne is an example of where they lock the train doors and you have to stand around.

I've never seen this done at London Waterloo but maybe I've not been on the platform early enough.

At Haywards Heath when the Eastbourne and Hove services use to divide, I don't remember them keeping the back doors closed until the front portion had departed. Once the detachment had taken place, both sets of doors would reopen.

I'm not sure what they did with the Old Brighton & Brighton service, which also use to divide there. One portion was fast to Brighton and the other was a stopper to Brighton.

 

[seagull]

I've witnessed the scene at Euston where on a platform with two Voyagers, the rear one shut down, doors all closed, and in complete darkness, and with platform staff stood by the rear unit specifically directing people to the front one which is fully lit, running and open, STILL people attempt to open doors on the rear one.
Amusing.

 

[stuu]

Most LNWR trains are locked.

When was that changed? It's five or six years since I last used that route regularly, and it was never the case then

 

[Steve Harris]

This is indeed frustrating. There can be big notices on the CIS which include "FRONT TRAIN ONLY", general darkness in the rear set and even manual announcements and people still constantly mash the door open buttons in the rear set...

I know what you mean... seen it far to many times myself.
I do wonder if they would be prime candidates for a brain transplant.. but (as they don't know what front is), I doubt if they would ever get to the front of the que. lol

I have been on trains where the cleaning takes place on route to the destination.

Eastbourne is an example of where they lock the train doors and you have to stand around.

I've never seen this done at London Waterloo but maybe I've not been on the platform early enough.

At Haywards Heath when the Eastbourne and Hove services use to divide, I don't remember them keeping the back doors closed until the front portion had departed. Once the detachment had taken place, both sets of doors would reopen.

I'm not sure what they did with the Old Brighton & Brighton service, which also use to divide there. One portion was fast to Brighton and the other was a stopper to Brighton.

Perhaps because people actually know the score... As joining and dividing units on the Southern region has been going on for decades and people have got used to it and know to check what actual train they're getting on before joining !

 

[Davester50]

Why on earth did you think this warranted a complaint? The train doors will be unlocked when the crew is onboard and happy everything is ready for passengers.
Do you complain to airlines when they don't let you on the plane the instant it rolls up to the stand?

Happened to me a couple of weeks back going from Newcastle to Carlisle, I just went and sat down somewhere until it was ready. Honestly, what's the big deal here?

Plenty of stations where trains only arrive 60 seconds before departure...
Plenty of bus stations where the bus is only opened when the driver arrives a minute or two before departure.

I'm should be amazed that someone would complain about such a thing, but I'm really not.

 

[Taunton]

This is indeed frustrating. There can be big notices on the CIS which include "FRONT TRAIN ONLY", general darkness in the rear set and even manual announcements and people still constantly mash the door open buttons in the rear set...

Only frustrating to the railway cognoscenti. To the general public, FRONT is the first one you come to. REAR is the one at the back of it.

The Southern cracked this long ago for their many portioned trains, it was then "4 coaches nearest the barrier", along with "4 coaches furthest from barrier". Useful expressions probably eliminated by the same managerial approach that finds leaving the passengers out on the platform, when they could be comfortably sat down waiting for departure, is somehow a good thing (see multiple posts above).

 

[Robertj21a]

Amazed that this warranted a complaint. It's not surprising that TOCs don't always get round to responding to the more serious matters as promptly as they might like.

 

[lachlan]

I'm should be amazed that someone would complain about such a thing, but I'm really not.

Amazed that this warranted a complaint. It's not surprising that TOCs don't always get round to responding to the more serious matters as promptly as they might like.

I've already covered "why" in the thread, as for the social media teams yes it's understandable they can't always respond hence why I then filled out a complaint form instead.

The submitted complaint was worded more as a question. I see nothing wrong with questioning things and passing on feedback to help railway companies improve.

 

[Davester50]

I've already covered "why" in the thread, as for the social media teams yes it's understandable they can't always respond hence why I then filled out a complaint form instead.

The submitted complaint was worded more as a question. I see nothing wrong with questioning things and passing on feedback to help railway companies improve.

And? I've stated that I (and others) can't see why anyone would.
This isn't a thread for an echo chamber. You will get differing opinions.

 

[RHolmes]

And? I've stated that I (and others) can't see why anyone would.
This isn't a thread for an echo chamber. You will get differing opinions.

I’d agree with the above, I understand being slightly bothered or annoyed but the phrase ‘complaint’ seems unwarranted.

The bit I find most confusing (and without meaning to sound to offensive to the OP) is that they tweeted the company ordering them to open the locked doors which I find really odd personally.

Anyway... Some of the reasons why I personally lock the doors on my trains:

- To allow for reservations to be placed and removed on all seats
- To allow for toilets to be cleaned, unblocked and restocked
- To allow the cleaners to be able to clean every surface, under seats and tables between trips which is harder for them with passengers onboard
- Because my diagram tells me too
- If my relief isn’t on the platform or train and I’m diagramed to be elsewhere to prevent the train being left unattended
- For safety and security to prevent things and people being on the train that shouldn’t be inline with the HOT and WHAT procedure
- If I’m taking my break on the unit on a long layover, it prevents myself from being responsible for the passengers and means I can physically leave the train to visit say a shop or mess room.
- To prevent passengers (particularly the last train of the night) form boarding the wrong train if one is advertised on the platform screens as ‘front train only’.
- To enable the driver to perform brake checks which cannot be done with the doors open. The doors shouldn’t be locked with passengers onboard
- To enable myself to check the cleaners have done their job, all toilets are physically working and systems such as the lighting and PA are working as intended.

 

[6Gman]

This used to happen with the Cardiff-Manchester services at the latter station - train arrived, emptied, then was locked closed whilst a couple of people did things inside the train such as applying seat reservation cards to appropriate seats.

It was highly irritating as a passenger. Ended up in a rushed scrum to get on a couple of minutes before departure time usually.

A number of years ago "they" stopped doing this, and let people get on immediately when the train arrived. It's much better now as a passenger. Being able to get on the train well in advance of departure if you happen to be there and the train happens to be there is good.

Unless you choose your seat and then someone slaps a reservation label on it!

Only frustrating to the railway cognoscenti. To the general public, FRONT is the first one you come to. REAR is the one at the back of it.

The Southern cracked this long ago for their many portioned trains, it was then "4 coaches nearest the barrier", along with "4 coaches furthest from barrier". Useful expressions probably eliminated by the same managerial approach that finds leaving the passengers out on the platform, when they could be comfortably sat down waiting for departure, is somehow a good thing (see multiple posts above).

I don't think anyone's saying it's a good thing; more that it's the practical thing.