Russia invades Ukraine

[DanNCL]

Putin has just put Russia's strategic nuclear force on "special alert"

 

[Scotrail314209]

Putin has just put Russia's strategic nuclear force on "special alert"

Jolly good. /s

The man is a raving lunatic.

 

[adc82140]

Putin has just put Russia's strategic nuclear force on "special alert"

And there are talks planned as the Belarus border. This is serious leverage to get their own way, and it may well work for them.

 

[kristiang85]

I think these talks will end up with Putin making outrageous demands, Ukraine will say no way, and Putin will frame it as them being obstructive to peace.

He's too far in now to withdraw, I feel. His presidency will probably be over if he does that.

 

[Richard Scott]

I think these talks will end up with Putin making outrageous demands, Ukraine will say no way, and Putin will frame it as them being obstructive to peace.

He's too far in now to withdraw, I feel. His presidency will probably be over if he does that.

His presidency may be over whatever the outcome now.

 

[squizzler]

Putin has just put Russia's strategic nuclear force on "special alert"

Who believes anything that man says, particular when it comes to the intention of his military? Given that he was saying as recently as last week he had no plans whatsoever to use the troops on the border to invade Ukraine when he intended the opposite, applying this logic to his latest pronouncement suggests he has given his nuclear forces the rest of the year off on holiday.

Shows that the unity of the free world is starting get under his skin. Better carry on doing more of the same.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Who believes anything that man says, particular when it comes to the intention of his military? Given that he was saying as recently as last week he had no plans whatsoever to use the troops on the border to invade Ukraine, I suspect his latest pronouncement is saying he has given his nuclear forces the rest of the year off on holiday.

Shows that the unity of the free world is starting get under his skin. Better carry on doing more of the same.

Whether or not he's bluffing, it's still an extremely scary and frankly dangerous move. Right now, even the sheer thought of it makes me feel sick.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Putin has just put Russia's strategic nuclear force on "special alert"

Awww poor Pootin-diddles. Are your friends not letting you win your game of soldiers?

 

[dakta]

"Whether or not he's bluffing, it's still an extremely scary and frankly dangerous move."

It's this kind of response that he requires - not much else seems to be having the desired effect

 

[najaB]

Whether or not he's bluffing, it's still an extremely scary and frankly dangerous move. Right now, even the sheer thought of it makes me feel sick.

As I noted above, the key is accepting that whatever is going to happen will happen whether you worry about it or not. Keep yourself informed, but don't give the situation control over your emotional state.

 

[Scotrail314209]

As I noted above, the key is accepting that whatever is going to happen will happen whether you worry about it or not. Keep yourself informed, but don't give the situation control over your emotional state.

I've been trying my hardest to keep calm and informed over the whole thing, but the fact that Putin has now explicitly brought nuclear weapons into the equation is really pushing that.

 

[Annetts key]

Comments from a Russian official, possibly at the UN, reported on some channels this morning, saying that the sanctions being imposed, demonstrate the "total impotence of the west".
He is reported to have said that Russia will consider withdrawing from all the previously signed nuclear treaties.

Now it's being reported that Putin has put his nuclear "defence forces" on high alert.

God help us if these madmen are going for broke.

Putin has just put Russia's strategic nuclear force on "special alert"

The man is a raving lunatic.

The war he started is not going to plan.

(Most of) the rest of the world has condemned him and Russia.

Did you really expect anything less from this idiot? The penny (or I suppose I should say, the one kopek coin) must have dropped in Putin’s head, and now he realises that he’s miscalculated big time.

Now is not the time for ‘the West’ to look weak. The Western nuclear powers should now publicly make it very clear that if Putin uses nuclear weapons, they will respond in kind.

 

[dakta]

Would it be wise to offer a moment to think of the safety of whoever confirmed to Putin the invasion plan would be effective?

 

[coppercapped]

Anglocentric hogwash. Not everything is about Brexit. This is about an age-old empire which feels it’s been mooned by a country it believes exists as a historical mistake.

I agree that Brexit did not completely consume the EU's time and that it also had other equally pressing issues to solve — the restrictions on democratic freedoms in Poland and Hungary and the on-going financial crisis.

However I strongly disagree that this war has to do with the 'feelings' of an oldish empire[1] — even if a construct can have feelings — but everything to do with the personal disappointment felt by a one-time KGB officer who saw his world collapsing when the management of the Soviet Union lost its will to live. This disappointment seems to have morphed into a bitter personal resentment which grew worse as the years went by. The fact that Ukraine, once a key part of the USSR, broke away from the Russian Federation was an insult to everything Putin believed in.

So for the last couple of decades he has been trying to retaliate by building up the Russian armed forces and has taken any opportunity to exploit issues in other parts of the world and, if possible, to exploit differences of opinion between countries and even within countries. He has supplied Venezuela with military equipment and personnel, he has a militia currently in Mali, he supports Assad in Syria prolonging the civil war so ensuring that the stream of refugees would cause humanitarian issues in Europe. In this country he has had people killed and at home in Russia and in the puppet states he controls opponents removed from over-flying aircraft and neutralised.

The Brexit issue was seen to be another opportunity to drive a wedge between Britain and the European countries. To suggest or imply that Putin has not given the process a nudge is to be, at best, naïve.

The important question is — for how long can he keep going? Sanctions will take some time to bite but in 2020 the Russian economy was, according to the World Bank, smaller than Italy’s. The Gross Domestic Products were:

Russia — USD1483.50 billion
Italy — USD1886.45 billion

[1] It's not that old. After 50 years of brutal fighting it conquered the mountain tribes of the Caucasus in 1859 and took Sakhalin and the Kuriles from Japan in 1875.

Another example of Schrodinger’s Brexit, where it is simultaneously absolutely piffling and Europe couldn’t care less - bye Britain! - and also the most important issue ever ever ever which risks starting war in Europe.

The Russians will “win”. The objective is to make it a pyrrhic one. Kill as many of them as possible. There are already thousands of them apparently dead. But they are a very large force, even if they are blundering and demotivated.

The Ukrainians who are defending their homeland against the aggressor empire are heroes. They will eventually retreat into guerrilla warfare against the occupying forces and this is where European and allied help will really make a difference. A steady supply of arms and morale.

 

[Annetts key]

Would it be wise to offer a moment to think of the safety of whoever confirmed to Putin the invasion plan would be effective?

Why?

 

[Iskra]

It’s coup time.

 

[GS250]

Putin using the nuclear bullying tactic....well thats now at least 500 warheads courtesy, Britain, France and the USA that will be trained on Russia (if he's threatening the West) Smart move Putin.....

 

[DanNCL]

I've been trying my hardest to keep calm and informed over the whole thing, but the fact that Putin has now explicitly brought nuclear weapons into the equation is really pushing that.

I think, just like Kim Jong Un a few years back, Putin won't act upon his nuclear threats for the very simple reason of he won't have any legacy if he wipes out the world. Putin wants a legacy, but for him to have that legacy there needs to be a Russia for him to leave that legacy behind in, which there won't be if he goes nuclear.

The man is a raving lunatic.

His presidency may be over whatever the outcome now.

Who believes anything that man says, particular when it comes to the intention of his military? Given that he was saying as recently as last week he had no plans whatsoever to use the troops on the border to invade Ukraine when he intended the opposite, applying this logic to his latest pronouncement suggests he has given his nuclear forces the rest of the year off on holiday.

Shows that the unity of the free world is starting get under his skin. Better carry on doing more of the same.

Awww poor Pootin-diddles. Are your friends not letting you win your game of soldiers?

He's f*cked this up big time and it looks like he's starting to realise. There's no 'good' option left for him now, regardless what happens his reputation both within Russia and on the international stage is in tatters. The least worst option he could do for himself is to end the conflict in Ukraine and to immediately resign as Russian president, but sadly we know he won't do that.

The man is a threat to global security and everyone, even his own people, know it.

As for Lukashenko, he might fall before Putin. Protestors are taking to the streets of Minsk again, and unlike last time he can't use troops to stop the protests as he's just sent them to Ukraine. If Lukashenko's regime in Belarus falls, Putin is finished regardless what happens in Ukraine.

I agree that Brexit did not completely consume the EU's time and that it also had other equally pressing issues to solve — the restrictions on democratic freedoms in Poland and Hungary and the on-going financial crisis.

Ironically it's Poland and Hungary that are (along with Romania and Slovakia) doing the most to help the Ukrainian refugees!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Agree with most of your post, but...

and in the puppet states he controls opponents removed from over-flying aircraft and neutralised.

????????

Russia — USD1483.50 billion
Italy — USD1886.45 billion

I think it's also worth remembering that Russia isn't that big population-wise. We tend to think of it as huge and powerful, I suspect in part because it used to be the core of the USSR and in part because it looks absolutely huge on the map. But that's because has large areas of tiny population density. The population of Russia, at around 146M, is less than - say - the UK and Germany combined. Or to put it another way, it's only the size of 14 Londons put together. When the USSR broke up, an awful lot of its population ended up not in Russia! (That's also btw another reason for wanting to make sure Putin fails in Ukraine: If he did succeed and took over the country and stabilised it, the Ukraine's 40M population, added to Russia's would instantly mean Putin is leading a potentially much more powerful country. For the sake of the World, I don't think any of us need that).

 

[Chingy]

Putin using the nuclear bullying tactic....well thats now at least 500 warheads courtesy, Britain, France and the USA that will be trained on Russia (if he's threatening the West) Smart move Putin.....

And it will all ultimately lead to the destruction of countries on both sides, with no winners (except possibly China)!

Now where is my local, nuclear bunker, didn't Del Boy have one going?

 

[yorksrob]

Russia will be a pariah state all the while Putin remains in power. There's no way back for him in terms of normal international relations.

 

[Annetts key]

There's no 'good' option left for him now, regardless what happens his reputation both within Russia and on the international stage is in tatters. The least worst option he could do for himself is to end the conflict in Ukraine and to immediately resign as Russian president, but sadly we know he won't do that.

If he was to order all Russian forces to leave Ukraine immediately, I can see him trying and unfortunately most likely surviving, and staying in power. At least for a while.

But every moment he delays, the situation will get worse. And as more damage is done to both Ukraine and to his own Russian forces, it gets increasingly hard to explain it away.

 

[coppercapped]

Agree with most of your post, but...



????????

On 23 May 2021 a Ryanair flight from Athens to Vilnius in Lithuania was diverted to Minsk, escorted by a Mig 29, and the local security forces removed Roman Protasevich, a journalist opposed to Lukashenko, from the aircraft.

This is state terrorism. It was only possible because Lukashenko is propped up by Putin. See this BBC report: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57219860

 

[Annetts key]

And it will all ultimately lead to the destruction of countries on both sides, with no winners (except possibly China)!

Nowhere on Earth will anyone survive without suffering the effects of a nuclear war. China may not be wiped out, but the fall out will circle the planet. And it will change the climate. Crops will fail. And who is China going to sell all their cheap tat to once the European countries and the U.S.A. are gone?

Now where is my local, nuclear bunker, didn't Del Boy have one going?

Err, our government sold them off to archive companies, so your data will be safely wiped by the electromagnetic wave, but the computer hardware that was storing it will still look untouched in the underground facilities…

 

[brad465]

There are now protests in Minsk supporting Ukraine, and Lukashenko may not be able to use the military to contain them this time if he has to send them to Ukraine alongside Russian forces.

 

[sonic2009]

There are now protests in Minsk supporting Ukraine, and Lukashenko may not be able to use the military to contain them this time if he has to send them to Ukraine alongside Russian forces.

There's no reports of the Belarusian forces in Ukraine is there?

It has been reported on BBC that Zelensky is open to talks but not in Minsk.

Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky has released a statement following his conversation with Belarusian president Alexander Lukashenko earlier today.

“We agreed that the Ukrainian delegation would meet with the Russian delegation without preconditions on the Ukrainian-Belarusian border, near the Pripyat River," it read.

“Alexander Lukashenko has taken responsibility for ensuring that all planes, helicopters and missiles stationed on Belarusian territory remain on the ground during the Ukrainian delegation's travel, talks and return.”

Zelensky had earlier said he would not meet a Russian delegation on Belarusian territory because Russia's invasion was launched in part from Belarus.

Neither Russia nor Belarus have issued any statements about potential talks.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

On 23 May 2021 a Ryanair flight from Athens to Vilnius in Lithuania was diverted to Minsk, escorted by a Mig 29, and the local security forces removed Roman Protasevich, a journalist opposed to Lukashenko, from the aircraft.

This is state terrorism. It was only possible because Lukashenko is propped up by Putin. See this BBC report: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57219860

Ah yes, I understand now. I remember the incident but couldn't figure out the reference from your post. As an aside, I regard the West's rather pathetic response to that awful incident as another factor in Putin probably thinking we are so indecisive that there'd be no terrible consequences if he invaded Ukraine.

 

[Bungle73]

I’m starting to find all this pretty scary now. Up until now it’s been just another war in a far away country, now we seem to be facing the very real prospect of a potential nuclear conflict. I grew up in the ‘80s, but the fears then never really filtered down to me. I only learned about them later.

 

[RichJF]

There's a theory going round that Putin is terminally ill, with his paranoia increased by Covid isolation & the solitary time allowing him to read up on propaganda material.
Thus, witness the non-sensical invasion & the nuclear level. All the signs of a man who knows he's close to the end & no longer cares about rationality who also has a chip on his shoulder.

 

[tommy2215]

I wouldn't bet against Putin's nuclear threats causing yet more panic buying and empty shelves in this country