Railway Industrial Disputes Mk2

[the sniper]

Why would anybody agree to only 2% in 2023 at this stage?

 

[linmanfu]

With today's ballot results and the RMT already in dispute, what is now feasible in terms of disruption?

It seems that if TSSA and RMT signalling staff at Network Rail strike concurrently, that should be enough for a full shutdown, but is there merit in them striking on alternate days, such that the TSSA staff, who are presumably in more senior grades, aren't available to supervise the RMT staff, such that a contingent service couldn't run on the TSSA strike day and the limited service would run on the RMT strike day.

It seems a little remiss that ASLEF have only been able to announce ballot results at eight train operators. Presumably ASLEF drivers will strike one day and RMT members the next.

Is there any chance that, by taking turns to take action each week and with alternate days of strike action, that there could be permanent disruption, while staff only each lose one day of work each week?

Are the unions close enough to each other to coordinate in this way for this cause?

Co-ordinating action makes complete sense, but the unions need to be very careful to stay on the right side of the law, specifically the Trade Union & Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 §224. Drivers who have a dispute with their TOC cannot strike in support of RMT staff in dispute with Network Rail, or vice versa. It's called secondary action. An employer affected by secondary action can sue the union. I think it's very unlikely that a TOC would sue (not worth the damage to industrial relations), but it's extremely plausible that Grant Shapps or a subsequent Tory Transport Secretary might order Network Rail to sue.

That doesn't stop ASLEF striking Mon-Wed-Fri while the RMT take action on Tue-Thu-Sat (or whatever is most damaging), but if they discussed this with each other then ASLEF are likely to lose their assets. Alternate day strikes would have to be a fortunate coincidence (or unfortunate if you are the Government).

Isn’t that however the ideology of the Labour Party, the redistribution of wealth?

The old Clause IV said that the purpose of the Labour Party was "[t]o secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof..." I think that's still an accurate description of how most Labour members would see this dispute. The train drivers and other rail staff should be paid salaries reflecting the value of the work that they do. Nurses' salaries don't come from the economic activity of train cleaners, so they are irrelevant. What is relevant is the millions paid to directors at Network Rail and the billions paid to the shareholders of the ROSCOs, which do come from the work of track maintenance staff etc.

The current Clause IV seeks a society where "power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few, where the rights we enjoy reflect the duties we owe". It's less explicit than the old text, but the point is still there: the salaries paid to drivers, signallers & ticket office staff should reflect the duties that they carry out. The conclusion remains that the salaries paid to nurses are not relevant to the dispute.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

DRI changed all that back in the 90s.

What is DRI please?

 

[dk1]

What is DRI please?

Drivers Restructuring Initiative. It came in a couple of forms (DRI 1/2) over time to transform the BR agreements into the privatised railway. Was an interesting time.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Drivers Restructuring Initiative. It came in a couple of forms (DRI 1/2) over time to transform the BR agreements into the privatised railway. Was an interesting time.

Cheers, I bet it was an anxious time too

 

[dk1]

Cheers, I bet it was an anxious time too

In a way yes but like that, privatisation & what we are going through now they are just that. It’ll be something to talk about in the messroom in a few years time.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The NR offer also includes access to PRIV as per TOC employees I believe.

 

[Dunnideer]

No one put up the NR band 5-8 offer? Was surprised at that, and would be surprised if it was rejected.

Since no one else has posted it… Network Rail General Grades, Bands 5 - 8, Controllers & Operations basic pay offer:

Pay 2022
• 4% increase to the annual base rates of pay effective from 1st January 2022. Back pay for annual base pay, shift and overtime, will be paid on the first possible pay day

Pay 2023
• 2% increase to base rates of pay; effective from 1st January 2023; and
• A further 2% paid as a cash lump sum on 1st January 2023, which will be consolidated in January 2024, on condition of the delivery of milestones

Privileged Discretionary Staff Travel
• Colleagues will be offered discretionary privileged leisure travel, which provides a 75% discount on all leisure travel and includes family members. This is the same discretionary travel benefit afforded to non-safeguarded Train Operating Company employees for leisure travel.
• It is anticipated that the administration of the scheme will be set up from January 2023 at the latest. Work will start on setting up the scheme once the pay deal is agreed.

Season ticket subsidy
• The season ticket subsidy cap of £2,750 will be removed and the discount of 75% will remain for unlimited cost of the relevant season ticket

Colleagues on Role Clarity contracts:
• The usual practice of using performance ratings to distribute pay increases will not be applied for 2022 or 2023 and salaries will be reviewed in line with the milestones stated below.
• We will revise the top of the salary bands by the percentage increases offered.
• For colleagues who have reached the maximum of the revised salary band, salary increases will be made as a one-off, non-consolidated payments.

Colleagues paid £24,000 or below
• £250 payment to employees who currently earn less than £24,000 per annum in base pay for FY21 financial year, this will be backdated to 1st January 2021, this will include apprentices.
• Any employee that earns above £24,000 but earns below the new uplift of a £250 payment to £24,250 will be levelled up to the same benefit. For example, an employee on £24,150 will have their salary increased to £24,250

There are various appendices which list the required changes (‘milestones’) to conditions and restructuring for Maintenance and Operations grades, which are too detailed to post here. The bands 1 - 4 management side has been offered 3% plus priv travel and season ticket cap removal, and further changes to the management structure subject to negotiation.

The offers are both dependant on no further industrial action.

 

[The Planner]

The NR offer also includes access to PRIV as per TOC employees I believe.

Leisure use. Id imagine some would rather have resedential.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Wouldn’t be surprised if there’s an announcement on Thursday. 14 days from then the commonwealth games begin….. Surely all unions will be talking and coordinating begins the scenes?

Would you like all competitors in the Commonwealth Games to refuse to compete in their chosen events as a mark of solidarity?

 

[winks]

To be a fair PRIV travel for NR staff has long been a stated aim of both the RMT and TSSA, I believe. This will be welcome by most members surely … ? This is a final offer by network rail by the way !

 

[Bald Rick]

Leisure use. Id imagine some would rather have resedential.

that’s covered by the existing season ticket subsidy of 75%, no?

 

[JonathanH]

This is a final offer by network rail by the way !

Nothing is a final offer until it is accepted. Depends how much bargaining power remains with the Union and employees.

 

[Horizon22]

The NR offer also includes access to PRIV as per TOC employees I believe.

I gathered that based on the discount offered which does to some extent make sense, especially in a move to GBR. A reasonably decent offer I’d have thought, just inflation is so high right now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jul 2022 ==

Leisure use. Id imagine some would rather have resedential.

Depends what “residential” is if they’re not employed by a specific TOC. Even TOC employees can only travel free on their own route normally, getting the season ticket discount otherwise.

 

[The Planner]

that’s covered by the existing season ticket subsidy of 75%, no?

I thought resedential was full travel to/from place of work?

 

[Bald Rick]

I thought resedential was full travel to/from place of work?

that doesn’t come with the RDG scheme though - you ‘only’ get a reduced rate season ticket, which is effectively the same as the season ticket subsidy (75%).

 

[The Planner]

that doesn’t come with the RDG scheme though - you ‘only’ get a reduced rate season ticket, which is effectively the same as the season ticket subsidy (75%).

Based on office use at the moment, not convinced the cap removal is going to get much more than a "meh" from people.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Go on then, don’t the let hit you on the bum when you leave.

Again - sarky, snappy and unpleasantly defensive. A major pattern emerging. Criticise the railway industry for the increasingly hostile and rude way they talk to those outside of the industry, and in their defense they'll do just that and prove you right!

 

[Bald Rick]

Based on office use at the moment, not convinced the cap removal is going to get much more than a "meh" from people.

It will benefit some, but not many (outside London bases that is), agreed.

 

[theageofthetra]

Train drivers aren't to blame for the awful wages nurse's get, I really wish people would stop comparing the two. Successive governments have screwed the NHS over not train drivers. Both are incredibly important and skilled jobs and the pay should be reflected accordingly.

Unfortunately as long as the NHS recruits Diversity Officers on £10k more than some train drivers and double many front line nurses I will have zero sympathy. That's who the publics anger should be directed at and who allows it.

 

[High Dyke]

Nothing is a final offer until it is accepted. Depends how much bargaining power remains with the Union and employees.

I know what you mean. However, the opening paragraph in the communication from Network Rail to employees states:

This message has been sent to all Network Rail colleagues

Dear all, I’m pleased to say we’ve now put forward an improved and final pay offer for our general grades, bands 5-8 and controllers to RMT, TSSA and Unite. If accepted by the trade unions, the two-year reward package would deliver a 4% uplift, backdated to 1 January 2022 (including shift pay and overtime) plus a further 2% in 2023 and a further 2% unconsolidated cash lump sum which will be consolidated into base pay on delivery of the key milestones. The offer includes additional benefits which many colleagues have said they’ve wanted for a long time. These include privilege rate leisure travel for colleagues, their partners and child dependents, which we know has been sought after for more than 10 years and a higher rail season ticket subsidy. The offer also sets out ways to provide job security and a voluntary severance opportunity in Maintenance. To afford this pay offer, part of the salary uplift depends on delivering the reform and productivity improvement milestones outlined in these documents: Maintenance and works delivery changes and operations productivity improvements.

This would suggest that there is no further offer to be made, though experience before has shown that improvements on an offer from management could be acheived.

Other items referred to in the "milestones" include:

"introduction of employer justified retirement age of 67". With a commitment that the unions will not challenge the principle.

Revised notice periods

• 6 months' notice from the employee to the company
• 6 months' notice from the company to the employee after 5 years service

For me, I currently only have to give the employer four weeks notice.

 

[66701GBRF]

Co-ordinating action makes complete sense, but the unions need to be very careful to stay on the right side of the law, specifically the Trade Union & Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 §224. Drivers who have a dispute with their TOC cannot strike in support of RMT staff in dispute with Network Rail, or vice versa. It's called secondary action. An employer affected by secondary action can sue the union. I think it's very unlikely that a TOC would sue (not worth the damage to industrial relations), but it's extremely plausible that Grant Shapps or a subsequent Tory Transport Secretary might order Network Rail to sue.

That doesn't stop ASLEF striking Mon-Wed-Fri while the RMT take action on Tue-Thu-Sat (or whatever is most damaging), but if they discussed this with each other then ASLEF are likely to lose their assets. Alternate day strikes would have to be a fortunate coincidence (or unfortunate if you are the Government).

I don't believe any of that would constitute "secondary action" AKA sympathetic striking according to the below definition from UCU.org.uk

Secondary action (or sympathy strikes as they are sometimes known) would occur if a trade union induces its members to take industrial action against their employer in support of fellow union members employed by a different employer where a trade dispute exists. For example, union members are in a dispute with their employer ("A") and in order to exert industrial pressure to settle the dispute the union calls upon its members employed by a different employer ("B") who is a supplier of services to A to refuse to handle supplies of those services to A.

I've also seen nothing the prevents strikes from different companies and different unions happening on the same day. When NR had there 3 day strike there was at least one TOC that had action on one of the days. Each TOC and the various unions at NR have had their own strike mandate under their own terms and conditions under their own collective bargaining agreement for their own reasons. None of them have called out in support of another company.

 

[Horizon22]

I know what you mean. However, the opening paragraph in the communication from Network Rail to employees states:

This would suggest that there is no further offer to be made, though experience before has shown that improvements on an offer from management could be acheived.

Other items referred to in the "milestones" include:


For me, I currently only have to give the employer four weeks notice.

6 months is a HUGE amount of time, especially for more junior roles; I already think 3 months which is common in most TOCs is long enough.

 

[Bantamzen]

No where near enough. Unfortunately inflation is predicted to hit 11% and the offer on the table is 4% with 2% next year plus an additional 2% if targets are met. Definitely not a fair deal in the current climate.

I'm glad you mentioned the current climate. Because here's the reason why any government, not just this current circus would balk at the idea of rubber stamping an inflation busting pay rise.

Let's just say that it does happen, what impact will that have on the rest of the publicly funded workforce. Rail workers get lets say 11%, but the public sector as a whole is offered 2%-3%. Of course this will cause widespread anger, and likely trigger more industrial action. So the government relents and gives the entire public sector 11% as well. But they've got to fund it somehow, after this will be an unprecedented that's going to hit budgets hard. Therefore the options would be:

• Tax rises from the 2023/24 fiscal year. Given that this will roll dangerously close to the next general election, its an unlikely option to be taken.
• Cutbacks in public services. Again given the looming GE, it would be a brave cabinet to announce cutbacks to fund pay rises, and of course realistically would be counterproductive. There's no point giving huge pay rises only to then cut back on the workforce & be even less able to deliver services.
• Quantitive Easing. This might seem like the easy option, just shake the magic money tree again and the problem goes away. Well sadly it doesn't, yes its been shaken many times over the last couple of years, but we are going to have to pay for that one way or another. The value of the pound is shrinking against the dollar, meaning that commodities bought in the American currency are going to be more expensive, and a lot of key ones are. I can't imagine printing more cash is going to help that one bit.

But let's just imagine one of these options are taken and its 11% pay rises are all around. What impact will that have on private sector workers? Of course they are going to start asking why they are not getting the same. Cue even more unrest and industrial action. And where employers cave in and award these rates, who do you suppose will pay for it? That's right, the customers. So prices rise even more, potentially triggering even higher rates of inflation, meaning even more claims for higher pay awards in the future, leading to even more cost. Suddenly we could find ourselves in a loop of hyper-inflation, constantly having to revalue of currency to the point where we will need a wheelbarrow full of notes just to buy a loaf of bread with cash (OK that might be the extreme conclusion, but you should hopefully get my point).

Is situation fair on ordinary folk? No, of course it isn't. I'm sure we would all love a big pay rise to get us through, but it simply isn't going to happen because we as a country can't afford it. Sure some areas might get much more than others, but I would bet that those areas that get the cash today will be facing big cutbacks tomorrow. What we actually need is for a competent government to tackle the root cause of the problem, inflation. Then more modest, and much more affordable pay rises would still see us improve our lot.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

Is that the one the Unions are still calling a real terms pay cut that I have quoted above? Both the RMT and TSSA are saying it isn't enough to end the dispute.

You could offer them ten times the amount Erling Haaland is on and they'd say it wasn't enough.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It would indeed be a Government with nothing to lose who may well consider playing hard ball over forthcoming pay disputes and refuse to accede to any pay settlement over a deemed level. Two years still to go to the next General Election in which havoc will be then wrought on the economy and will then be a problem for the next Government to sort out after a General Election.

 

[ComUtoR]

You could offer them ten times the amount Erling Haaland is on and they'd say it wasn't enough.

You could offer them a penny and people will still call it too much.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You could offer them a penny and people will still call it too much.

Can you imagine how the unions would react to such a pay settlement....

 

[Broucek]

In this cost of living crisis EVERYONE loses (except energy companies)

I do pay for a living (I'm a consultant). Most of my clients are private sector and here's how this is playing out

• 99% of people are receiving increases below inflation (3%-4% was typical in Jan-April*)
• However, many employers are scrambling to do more for their most crucial people and/or the low paid who are suffering most from inflation
• But employers have to fund this extra pay - which means higher costs to customers (creating a further feedback loop) and/or lower profits (which is bad for reinvestment and for pension plans)

The punchline is: higher prices, salaries that don't keep up and reduced pension pots (defined contribution)

* that's a TOTAL figure, there are no increments for another year served on top. This is often ignored in public/private comparisons

 

[Goldfish62]

Reading this thread I think some people are getting confused about the rate of inflation and how it relates to a cost of living rise.

The inflation rate (CPI and RPI) is expressed as a rolling average over the past 12 months.

NR have offered 4% backdated to January. At that time CPI was 5.5% and RPI was 7.8% so that's what you've got to compare the offer against, not whatever rate inflation might be now or at some arbitrary point in the future (this is the case whether inflation is going up or down). You can't just keep moving the goalposts based on when negotiations are taking place.

I'd have thought people's focus should be on the offered 2% from January 2023. The gap between that offer and the RPI rate then is likely to be far greater than the equivalent gap for January 2022.