ASLEF - LNER drivers to strike every Sat & Sun for 3 months from 31 Aug - Now called off

[eldomtom2]

If you are a driver and decide not to strike and turn up and drive. Is that OK? Does it make a difference if you are a union member or not?

Legally unions can't punish members for not striking: https://www.gov.uk/industrial-action-strikes

If you’re a trade union member, you have the right to vote before your union asks you to take industrial action. You don’t have to take part in industrial action and can’t be disciplined by your union if you don’t.

 

[DJP78]

The issue is of public perception. The disputes may not be related, but the perception of it (and even the Mail, Express and Telegraph have made it clear that they aren't related in their coverage, it's not down to the press) publically, even if people understand the situation, is that this has been ASLEF overplaying their hand massively. As I've said it's almost certainly an hubristic cock-up but that doesn't alter how it's seen by a large number of people, who don't care what the dispute is about, all they're interested in is a union announcing more strikes just after receiving a very good pay settlement when they thought that they were about to get a more stable rail service.

It's now up to ASLEF to try to justify it to the travelling public. I suspect they're going to struggle, however justified the action may be.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2024 ==


Worth noting that Labour banning it would have no effect on the specific circumstances of P&O fire/rehire.

However, banning it will prevent other companies from misusing Fire & Rehire

P&O & British Gas exploited a loophole in the legislation to circumnavigate union negotiating practices

 

[theageofthetra]

If you have children then you also face a high marginal tax rate (up to an eye-watering 71%) between £50k and £60k. https://www.bbc.com/news/58870012

Or just pay more into your pension and avoid all that

 

[weeklycommuter]

I assume if this dispute is not resolved by November there will have to be another ballot of ASLEF members at LNER on whether to continue with a mandate for strike action for another six months. This will show how many ASLEF members at LNER support continuing with the dispute and how many do not.

 

[sigma421]

Does anyone know when LNER is likely to publish information on what the plan is for the strike days? I have a ticket for the Saturday from Leeds to Edinburgh and really need to get there (could travel the Friday instead), what types of flexibility have they offered in the past? Have had a notification saying my particular train is cancelled but no further information on what else is on offer.

 

[ainsworth74]

I would reckon something will appear over the weekend. I believe on previous strikes travel the day before or several days afterwards has been permitted.

 

[Mawkie]

The issue is of public perception.

Is isn't.

It's now up to ASLEF to try to justify it to the travelling public.

It isn't.

There seems to be a weird feeling on some posts here that Unions are in some battle with government, hate the general public, and all kinds of other strange ideas.

They simply represent the feelings of members - at a local level. A member brings up an issue at a branch meeting, the branch discusses if there's any value to the issue and votes. It then gets passed upwards until the national executive become aware and formalise action.

It's that simple. Nobody is looking to embarrass the government, humiliate management, or any other silly suggestion I've read here. They just seek a solution to that original issue they brought up at a branch meeting (in this case) years ago.

 

[Bald Rick]

Does anyone know when LNER is likely to publish information on what the plan is for the strike days? I have a ticket for the Saturday from Leeds to Edinburgh and really need to get there (could travel the Friday instead), what types of flexibility have they offered in the past? Have had a notification saying my particular train is cancelled but no further information on what else is on offer.

Should be up tomorrow, all being well.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2024 ==

Ive read all of this thread and joined specifically to reply to a few points that have been made.

Firstly I am a driver with LNER and disagree with the second strike action that’s been taken. The timing is poor and has done nothing for public relations or to improve ASLEF’s image. Whilst the strike is due to the constant abrogation of rostering agreements etc it actually only boils down to one key issue. That issue is Managers driving on strike days. The company have even said so in internal emails.

Welcome. Always good to get different viewpoints. I will say that this is much more in line with what I have been hearing from LNER drivers, driver managers, and (indirectly) LNER driver reps.

I am a little surprised how quickly some other forum members have been critical of your post.

 

[Smidster]

Never a good thing to cross a picket regardless of your feelings on the matter.

So management "bullying" is a no-no but it is OK / encouraged for members of the Union to bully colleagues?

In my line of work there were certainly no issues with people deciding whether they wanted to strike or not - Is it really different in other sectors and is it accepted practice because that sounds pretty bad to an "outsider"

 

[BrokenSam]

So management "bullying" is a no-no but it is OK / encouraged for members of the Union to bully colleagues?

In my line of work there were certainly no issues with people deciding whether they wanted to strike or not - Is it really different in other sectors and is it accepted practice because that sounds pretty bad to an "outsider"

Where have I mentioned the word bullying there? It's not ok to cross a picket. That's all that I said. Because it isn't. Rights have been fought for and succeeded across all industries because of such solidarity. Disagree if you want.

 

[woodmally1979]

Legally unions can't punish members for not striking: https://www.gov.uk/industrial-action-strikes

Well there is whats legal and what actually happens and these are two different things. Yes legally they can cross a picket line but just remember they have to work with their colleagues who are striking. And working relationships will break down if people break the strike. So there is a lot of unofficial pressure on people to follow the union line. Let alone the acceptance of the principle of why unions are there in the first place.

 

[Audioguy]

If you have children then you also face a high marginal tax rate (up to an eye-watering 71%) between £50k and £60k. https://www.bbc.com/news/58870012

If you have university debt to pay then its another 9% on top of that.

 

[uglymonkey]

"scab"... etc etc .

 

[RT4038]

Where have I mentioned the word bullying there? It's not ok to cross a picket. That's all that I said. Because it isn't. Rights have been fought for and succeeded across all industries because of such solidarity. Disagree if you want.

Disagree. Picket lines are bullying. If all the members felt that striking was the right thing to do, then they would not go to work and there would be no need for an picket line to intimidate any not to cross.

 

[PLY2AYS]

Disagree. Picket lines are bullying. If all the members felt that striking was the right thing to do, then they would not go to work and there would be no need for an picket line to intimidate any not to cross.

I think you’re getting peer pressure, social activism and bullying confused.

 

[greyman42]

Well there is whats legal and what actually happens and these are two different things. Yes legally they can cross a picket line but just remember they have to work with their colleagues who are striking. And working relationships will break down if people break the strike. So there is a lot of unofficial pressure on people to follow the union line. Let alone the acceptance of the principle of why unions are there in the first place.

Drivers spend most of their shift alone in the cab so what working relationships are you referring to?

 

[RT4038]

I think you’re getting peer pressure, social activism and bullying confused.

I don't think so - I think you are trying to gloss over the bullying that a picket line is.

 

[PLY2AYS]

I don't think so - I think you are trying to gloss over the bullying that a picket line is.

Tell me you’ve never been on a picket line, without telling me you’ve never been on a picket line…

 

[66701GBRF]

Drivers spend most of their shift alone in the cab so what working relationships are you referring to?

Rest day or annual leave swaps? Frosty messrooms?

 

[greyman42]

Rest day or annual leave swaps? Frosty messrooms?

They don't spend much time in the messroom though.

 

[Tractor2018]

Disagree. Picket lines are bullying. If all the members felt that striking was the right thing to do, then they would not go to work and there would be no need for an picket line to intimidate any not to cross.

Good grief.

 

[greyman42]

Disagree. Picket lines are bullying. If all the members felt that striking was the right thing to do, then they would not go to work and there would be no need for an picket line to intimidate any not to cross.

That's a good point.

 

[Carlisle]

That's a good point.

I suppose it depends if there’s a quiet back entrance to the workplace that those wishing to work can use without having to pass a large picket line & associated ill feeling on all sides that may result .

 

[Mwanesh]

Despite Mick Whelan's previously warm (now seemingly weasel) words about wanting to work with the government the timing of the announcement makes it clear that he didn't mean a word of it. A constructive working relationship would have been, for example, for Whelan to make an unofficial approach to Louise Haig about the issue and the intended action if things don't improve. That would have given a chance for Hendy or whoever to go off and try to knock heads together at LNER. Most of the media would have been none the wiser had a solution without strike action being announced been forthcoming.

Instead, we have had a union deliberately undermining the government to the delight of the right wing press and politicians, and any attempted meditation now by the government will be highly public, adding to accusations of Labour acting on their paymasters orders.

I've gone right off Mick Whelan.

Totally agree could have been done behind closed doors.Mick Whelan has not said anything about the action

 

[WAB]

"scab"... etc etc .

A term which some LNER staff on Twitter in the past have been quite vocal and gleeful about using against their managers.

 

[Meole]

Totally agree could have been done behind closed doors.Mick Whelan has not said anything about the action

Mick Whelan gave a full and frank answer in his interview on Green Signals Episode 47, why try to mislead people about him ?

As Whelan says he would prefer this issue was sorted behind closed doors, this does require 2 parties.

 

[GalaxyDog]

The problem is is that the right wing press are conflating this with the national pay&conditions strike when it is a clearly separate dispute.
If what ASLEF are saying is true regarding bullying, circumventing diagramming and safety rules etc, then I wish them the best of luck in finding a positive solution - hopefully without having to initiate the strikes but if it comes to it, understandable.

 

[jkkne]

Don’t forget British Gas unleashed Fire & Rehire as well back on 2021 I believe

Disgraceful practise and they’re still suffering the consequences now

British Gas reputation mud as well

Are they suffering? like P&O, the public moved on and both are seeing growth and in British Gas case record profits.

The public quickly move on

 

[GRALISTAIR]

@Insiderout welcome to the forum and thank you for giving your side which seems reasonable and balanced.

 

[mpthomson]

However, banning it will prevent other companies from misusing Fire & Rehire

P&O & British Gas exploited a loophole in the legislation to circumnavigate union negotiating practices

P&O used no loopholes, what they did was entirely legal. The circumstances aren't the same as the British Gas workers.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Aug 2024 ==

The problem is is that the right wing press are conflating this with the national pay&conditions strike when it is a clearly separate dispute.
If what ASLEF are saying is true regarding bullying, circumventing diagramming and safety rules etc, then I wish them the best of luck in finding a positive solution - hopefully without having to initiate the strikes but if it comes to it, understandable.

This isn't actually correct. Times, Mail, Telegraph and Express have all made it clear that the disputes aren't related.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Aug 2024 ==

Is isn't.

It isn't.

There seems to be a weird feeling on some posts here that Unions are in some battle with government, hate the general public, and all kinds of other strange ideas.

They simply represent the feelings of members - at a local level. A member brings up an issue at a branch meeting, the branch discusses if there's any value to the issue and votes. It then gets passed upwards until the national executive become aware and formalise action.

It's that simple. Nobody is looking to embarrass the government, humiliate management, or any other silly suggestion I've read here. They just seek a solution to that original issue they brought up at a branch meeting (in this case) years ago.

It really is. To both points... It's quite clear that either through deliberate action or cock up ASLEF have done exactly what you're claiming that no-one does.

The issue may be entirely valid (and no-one on here is claiming it isn't), the optics are terrible.