Which is each TOC's "poor relation" route?

[Mutant Lemming]

Another LM candidate is the Abbey 'Flyer'. Have heard on the radio of it being replaced by taxis during the morning peak a number of times for one reason or other.

 

[Lampshade]

London Midland surely Bletchley to Bedford?

 

[Zoe]

For FGW it may well be the Melksham route.

 

[12CSVT]

EMT - Crewe to Derby (gets totally wedged 153s for most of the day while five-car 222s are carting fresh air between Kettering and Corby)

 

[Flying Snail]

For ScotRail, how about the Motherwell - Cumbernauld route, since that was the one the scrapped to find a spare unit for the Pope's visit to Glasgow last year?

A 2 car 158 on a 25 min suburban shuttle, the poor dears.

It just highlights the ridiculous stock usage nationwide that this is a candidate for worst service in Scotland when the likes of Derby-Crewe are rammed in a poxy dogbox or Northern passengers expected to live with pacers for exceptionally busy commuter lines and long 2 hour + regional journeys.

Derby-Crewe for EMT although Liverpool-Norwich a close second.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The Watford - St Albans route does quite well - over a 1000 passengers a day Mon - Friday and not bad at weekends either. The problem is that a unit failure causes kncok on delays and cancellations in getting the dud one off and a fresh one on. A tram service will really transform it with a 20 / 30 min headway.

 

[CarterUSM]

A 2 car 158 on a 25 min suburban shuttle, the poor dears.

It just highlights the ridiculous stock usage nationwide that this is a candidate for worst service in Scotland when the likes of Derby-Crewe are rammed in a poxy dogbox or Northern passengers expected to live with pacers for exceptionally busy commuter lines and long 2 hour + regional journeys.

Derby-Crewe for EMT although Liverpool-Norwich a close second.

I think he meant that ScotRail don't consider it a big deal to cape the service. It was off for just over 2 weeks last winter too.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Northern: Middlesbrough - Hexham/Carlisle
Got to be one of the worst, 2 hours+ in a 142...

 

[swt_passenger]

I think such a 'parly' service doesn't really count for the purposes of this thread (plus it's not that neglected - it's being extended to Clapham High St come December!).

Unfair to award this one (the WLL 'parly') to SN really. Even if it was relevant it would have to be XC's 'poor relation' route (and they'd probably say it was down to the DfT anyway)...

 

[district]

I thought that too, but it appears Southern have tried to extend to four coaches (they did a trial back in June) and increase frequency while Network Rail have always advised them against doing so.

Oh really? That's exciting. I've been on a 4car formation during the Eastbourne Airshow event weekend.

 

[91101]

I have to disagree with Hull being the poor relation on East Coast, infact I would have said quite to the contrary, it has a basic service on EC, but theres not a lot of scope for them to improve it, given that the market is already saturated with the 7 FHT trains a day.

For me, I would have to say that Leeds - London would be the poor relation on East Coast, the journey time benefits that Eureka could have captured really were not exploited, and neither was the opportunity for later southbound services compared with York and Doncaster.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Nobody has mentioned SWT yet, so I will say that the Lymington branch is SWT's poorest relation. To me it is probably a "parliamentary" service that isn't worthy of trains every half hour!
It may not be "poor relation" in terms of infrastructure or service though, for that it'd be the SWT service to Bristol TM due to lack of service on the route (yes I am aware that FGW run the main service), or possibly the Chessington branch for shoddiest stations!

 

[tbtc]

Nobody has mentioned SWT yet, so I will say that the Lymington branch is SWT's poorest relation. To me it is probably a "parliamentary" service that isn't worthy of trains every half hour!
It may not be "poor relation" in terms of infrastructure or service though, for that it'd be the SWT service to Bristol TM due to lack of service on the route (yes I am aware that FGW run the main service), or possibly the Chessington branch for shoddiest stations!

If something went wrong at Waterloo, which do you reckon would be the first SWT service to get pulled? Is Chessington the first to "go" if there's any problems?

 

[Urban Gateline]

If something went wrong at Waterloo, which do you reckon would be the first SWT service to get pulled? Is Chessington the first to "go" if there's any problems?

Nope, Dorking service is though

 

[tbtc]

Nope, Dorking service is though

Cheers

 

[starrymarkb]

But once people in Par and Totnes have seen the IEP, who know, they may think that they've got the best part of the deal. See also: Voyagers vs. HSTs.

I suspect they'll still want new stock, abliet more suitable stock if IEP can't climb hills.

Longer term I can see 22x being used in pure diesel form after all for most West services be under the wires for just 30 miles - I'm not counting Newbury as I can't see making everything stop to change system as being a good thing.

 

[Zoe]

I'm not counting Newbury as I can't see making everything stop to change system as being a good thing.

Do the train have to stop then to change power source? Longer term higher line speeds via Bristol may well negate any time saving on the Berks and Hants in the future and so electric power could be used as far as Bristol. Don't forget also that by 2035 the 22x trains will themselves be 30 years old.

 

[Johnny Lewis]

NXEA - the Sudbury branch.
Children - services to and from Stratford-upon-Avon.
EMT - Liverpool to Norwich!!!

 

[TUC]

For Northern its any of the Teesside lines. They're effectively at the end of a very long branch line from Carlisle for northern's purposes and come across as unloved and uninvested in, even by Northern's standards.

 

[SWT_USER]

Nope, Dorking service is though

On the Windsor lines it always seems to be the Hounslow Loop services are the first to be culled.

 

[Aictos]

I was (honestly) thinking Hertford but I didn't want to risk saying so, only for someone to jump out and berate me on the importance of Herford connections!

There has been a few improvements to both routes but they're still classed as the poor relations,

I do think that as soon as the Hitchin flyover gets built then hopefully paths can be found to increase the Moorgate to Letchworth via Hertford to a 30 minute frequency all day which would be one investment I think is worth it.

 

[NightatLaira]

East Coast - Kings Cross to Glasgow Central
Virgin Trains - Euston to Edinburgh Waverley


Under Intercity though, I would probably say the most unloved route was: Leeds to London. Why? Only 1 train an hour iirc? No MML/EMT style Leeds to St Pancras services.

And for wider BR: how about the Cambrian line. At best I remember it being Pwhelli to Macynlleth once every two hours with a green 'centro' train, now you can go all the way to Birmingham International in an aircon 158 with a trolley!

What luxury!

 

[Eagle]

I can't really think of which one it would be for CrossCountry—most of the poor relations were binned by Virgin in 2003...

Birmingham–Stansted is long, tortuous and distant from the rest of the network, but at least XC say they have "aspirations" to make the route 2tph (then again they say that about everything—when they started the franchise they had "aspirations" to make Bournemouth 2tph; three years later they'd succeeded in getting Southampton up to 1.5tph, which is a start, I guess...)

 

[Drimnagh Road]

ATW,

surely Llandudno-Blaenau?

The line floods every Winter, buses on Sundays in the Winter, 153s struggle in the Autumn, Competing bus is faster, logistical nightmare to diagram as everything else ATW operate in North Wales is 158 / 175.

 

[HST Power]

There has been a few improvements to both routes but they're still classed as the poor relations,

I do think that as soon as the Hitchin flyover gets built then hopefully paths can be found to increase the Moorgate to Letchworth via Hertford to a 30 minute frequency all day which would be one investment I think is worth it.

Funnily enough, I was looking at the proposed layout of the flyover today. It's a really good idea and I am confident it will work. Lots of FCC services are delayed because they have to wait for HSTs starting the run up to Peterborough, but with the flyover built, we wouldn't have this problem.
When does construction start?

There was once a plan to build Letchworth two island platforms but this never materialised.

 

[507 001]

Merseyrail it will be Liverpool-Kirkby or Ellesmere Port.

Northern has loads. Ellesmere Port to Helsby...

Definitely not Liverpool-Kirkby, its one of the busiest routes, especially at peak time!

Its Definitely Ellesmere Port

 

[Schnellzug]

Nobody has mentioned SWT yet, so I will say that the Lymington branch is SWT's poorest relation. To me it is probably a "parliamentary" service that isn't worthy of trains every half hour!
It may not be "poor relation" in terms of infrastructure or service though, for that it'd be the SWT service to Bristol TM due to lack of service on the route (yes I am aware that FGW run the main service), or possibly the Chessington branch for shoddiest stations!

I'm not sure if many people would think of 158s on a half-hourly service as a poor relation...

 

[tbtc]

Interesting that a few of these "poor relations" seem to be "diesel islands" in electrified areas - is the inflexibility of having to use a different type of train a factor in the "second class" nature?

 

[sprinterguy]

Under Intercity though, I would probably say the most unloved route was: Leeds to London. Why? Only 1 train an hour iirc? No MML/EMT style Leeds to St Pancras services.

Leeds to London has two trains per hour on the East Coast, and journey times of under two hours*. Just how many trains does Leeds need going to London?? I'd say that Leeds-London is one of the flagship, premier routes of the East Coast operation.

EDIT: It's actually 2 hour 15 minutes. I thought it was a bit faster than that under the new Eureka timetable

 

[tbtc]

Leeds to London has two trains per hour on the East Coast, and journey times of under two hours. Just how many trains does Leeds need going to London?? I'd say that Leeds-London is one of the flagship, premier routes of the East Coast operation.

I'd agree with you there - its been a big growth market for GNER/ NXEC, especially as there's no (real) air competition.

Much more likely for a service to be pulled beyond Leeds (Skipton/ Bradford) if there are any problems (and passengers put on a 333 instead)