'Big man' vs Sam Main incident (final decision: no charges for either)

[GB]

Well what goes around comes around...
He was being very rude and abusive to the guard. and disrespectful to other fellow passengers.
When i was in town a few weeks ago, some random person started to start and threaten me. Next thing i know the bouncer has slammed him down to the floor. is this classes as assault? or should he have just stood there and let him smash my face in for no reason?

There is a difference. You were threatened with violence, which does not appear to be the case in this video.

 

[Platform 1]

Brilliant .

 

[WestCoast]

Reminds me of how they apparently used to perform ticket inspections on the East Berlin U-Bahn, five guys in leather jackets with an alsatian dog. You can picture the scene....

...I am sure some rail staff wouldn't mind having a few 'heavies' on their train at night!

 

[jon0844]

When the police turned up after a fight on my train, the cops brought a dog. Seemed to calm the offender down quite effectively!

 

[richw]

If you look at this picture: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f....131969223515644.24936.100001077026472&type=3 and look at him just after he's thrown in the video when his hat has fallen off, it does look like the same person.

I'd be 99% sure its same guy. His Facebook suggests he's quite proud of himself and thinks its a joke.... A set up by anychance, this idiot big man, and video man all in on the act?

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

 

[YorkshireBear]

I'd be 99% sure its same guy. His Facebook suggests he's quite proud of himself and thinks its a joke....

I love it hows hes acting hard about it when clearly he lost all pride and dignity by being chucked off the train by a member of the public.....
All his friends think hes clever too.... ah well he will try it again sometime.

 

[WestCoast]

I love it hows hes acting hard about it when clearly he lost all pride and dignity by being chucked off the train by a member of the public.....
All his friends think hes clever too.... ah well he will try it again sometime.

I agree completely. He was forcibly kicked off the train, I don't see how he thinks he's 'hard'? Idiot.

 

[AlterEgo]

If you felt vindictive, and would like to see him get his comeuppance, you could always email Heriot-Watt University and tell them what a fine undergraduate they have.

I'm not like that - just putting it out there.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . . you could always email Heriot-Watt University . . . .

Even if no one did that, its possible that any intending employer will make checks of their own, perhaps even uncovering a chain of material on the internet.

Not that any professional employer would ever let themselves be influenced by unsubstantiated babble on the 'net. Would they?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Employers check facebooks.... this will appear and he wont get a job (well most likely)

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Good if he got a 'travelling without ticket' fine.

 

[IanD]

LOL at the guy who was more concerned they'd ruffled his parka. I bet his kiddies weren't so impressed that Dad had sat and done nothing!

LOL - that's a woman in the parka!

 

[All Line Rover]

What issue does everyone have with "assault?" Chav has no ticket, causes hassle for other passengers, get's kicked/thrown off train. Well done, I say!

I'm no legal expert, but if that's "assault," I feel that the laws in this country are completely over the top. Providing you behave, you won't get hurt!

This "no win no fee" compensation culture is a real pain.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It's been picked up by the super soar-away Sun, which paints the guy who threw the fare evader off the train as a hero.

Interesting quote from Scotrail though:

"While we welcome the public's support of our zero-tolerance stance on anti-social behaviour, our staff are trained in conflict management and we do not expect members of the public to take matters into their own hands.

"We are investigating the incident, which appears to show a person travelling without a valid ticket, refusing to pay for the journey, and swearing at a staff member in full view of customers."

I think we all know that they are backing their staff over this one.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I don't think the behaviour in the video should be encouraged, however I don't think it should be discouraged either.

 

[jon0844]

Someone nailed it earlier on by commenting on which illegal activity we tolerated more - the fare evasion or the throwing off the train bit!

@ralphchadkirk - make sure you sit still on the fence in case you fall off.

 

[the sniper]

I'm no legal expert

I never would have guessed... :P

 

[ralphchadkirk]

@ralphchadkirk - make sure you sit still on the fence in case you fall off.

'Tis a bit wobbly. What I meant was that whilst this action was commendable, vigilanteism is a dangerous thing to encourage. It can easily get out of hand.

 

[northwichcat]

One unanswered question is why did he buy a single ticket and then travel back. He must have realised 2 singles cost more than a return. Was the ticket he had in fact his or did he find the ticket and try to pass it off as a valid ticket, even though it was for travel in the other direction.

Maybe the guard was giving him a last chance before phoning BTP and maybe the 'big guy' knew how long it would take for BTP to arrive so decided to take action now opposed to be delayed waiting for BTP.

 

[Dolive22]

There is some fascinating legal theory about whether something is a defence or a denial of an element of the offence, and about the difference between justification and excuse. But none of that matters in this case (or most other cases). The guy had been told to leave by an agent of a legal person (a company) entitled to exclusive possession of the land, that is to say the right to be there and tell other people to sling their hook. He had refused. The agent accepted the offer of someone else to remove the trespasser. The have the self help remedy to trespass in Scotland like we do in England and Wales. Once he was engaged to eject the trespasser he was an agent of Scotrail. The occupier or their agent may use reasonable force to eject trespassers.

 

[Chew Chew]

It's been picked up by the super soar-away Sun, which paints the guy who threw the fare evader off the train as a hero.

I wonder how much of a laugh the lad will think getting chucked off the train is now that the papers will be looking for him?

Interesting quote from Scotrail though:

I think we all know that they are backing their staff over this one.

And rightfully so.

The closest BTP station is about 20 miles by road from Linlithgow so the train could have been there quite a while if they waited for them to turn up.

 

[jon0844]

'Tis a bit wobbly. What I meant was that whilst this action was commendable, vigilanteism is a dangerous thing to encourage. It can easily get out of hand.

Oh yes, but that already happens anyway. A lot of people that fit the profile of a chav don't regularly get the police involved to deal with disputes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I am very certain the outcome would have been so much different if it had happened in or around London, or at a time when commuters were trying to get home.

They'd have told the conductor to stop being a jobsworth, which would have given the scrote more confidence to be abusive - and nobody would have then stepped in to take him off the train as they'd be verbally attacked too.

 

[amcluesent]

We are we bothered about a wee ned who'd happily mug your gran for her pension money to get some whiz\buckfast?

He deserved a smack, he got a smack. End of!

LOL - that's a woman in the parka!

By jings! Help 'ma boab! Them Scottish lassies are minging!

 

[scotsman]

http://www.facebook.com/sammain16?sk=wall

This guy is claiming it was him who was chucked off and he seems to think it is a great laugh.

I'm sure admin will remove if they think it is inappropriate to post but the details are public.

He's doing a BA in Building Surveying...methinks he'll be surveying a few buildings of the legal establishment fairly soon. Haw haw haw.

 

[Pumbaa]

I don't think the behaviour in the video should be encouraged, however I don't think it should be discouraged either.

That's a wonderfully insightful, err, insight there from you Ralph

 

[ralphchadkirk]

That's a wonderfully insightful, err, insight there from you Ralph

I clarified it later

 

[Flamingo]

Although there is a possibility that both passengers were committing illegal acts, I know which one I'd be more than happy to have travelling on my train. And it isn't the muppet in the stupid hat.

 

[PinzaC55]

The problem with fare evasion is that it has become so engrained in our culture that the people who do it don't see themselves as what they are - criminals. They see themselves as the aggrieved party.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . The guy had been told to leave by an agent of a legal person (a company) entitled to exclusive possession of the land . . . .

This is not an area I have studied, but I'm uncomfortable with the suggestion that the conditions for 'agency' were fulfilled. If you have relevant authorities to cite, I will be very grateful if you could let me know what they are.

 

[richw]

Although there is a possibility that both passengers were committing illegal acts, I know which one I'd be more than happy to have travelling on my train. And it isn't the muppet in the stupid hat.

The one that backs you up then,

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk