ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

snookertam · 25 Feb 2019

47271 said:
Nothing to do with the HSTs, the timetable has worked like that for many years. Two main reasons as I understand it:.

- Edinburgh to Inverness trains fit into the hourly Edinburgh-Perth pattern between Ladybank and Hilton. If they didn't make the extra stops then the service between Fife and Perth would be very erratic.

- There are plenty of other trains operating between Edinburgh and Dundee, and if the Aberdeens stopped at, say Inverkeithing or Markinch, they would become unnecessarily choked with short distance traffic easily accommodated elsewhere.

Others may have further insight.

No you're basically correct. When they introduced the Edinburgh-Dundee semi fast services they removed the Fife stops from the Aberdeen services - was known at the time as the EFA (Edinburgh-Fife-Aberdeen) timetable changes which were to alleviate overcrowding on the Aberdeen services from (I think) around 2009 onwards. Early morning and late night services still stop in Fife.

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kidman123 · 25 Feb 2019

Cheers guys was just a wonder that was all I know lnee and is it 8:50 xc stops in Fife.

But on short distance trains would it be beneficial to have say Perth to Edinburgh go down Fife coal fiels and Dundee to Edinburgh to go down towards Kirkcaldy aberdour etc.

Or You could also do a split and join at markinch south bound and split ladybank northbound do you think that would work think this frees up paths for another Fife circle thoughts.

Would HST be better for the Fife circle instead of the 158s and 170s

jingsmonty · 25 Feb 2019

snookertam said:
You are correct in what you're saying, but I think the issue is the fact they (and the Canals) operate out of Central and are the only routes of that profile there. Having 380/385s work the routes means more flexibility with the other routes and can be diagrammed accordingly, potentially meaning fewer units. If nothing else it makes setting up depots a bit easier as they don't need to ensure another specific type of unit has to be shunted into position (although I doubt that's their main priority).

It's also clear that the drivers working the 380s over the route are becoming far more familiar with working that type of traction on these services and they're surprisingly agile over the short distances.

That's a very fair point - it's similar to having HSTs working between Aberdeen to Inverness, I suppose.

najaB · 25 Feb 2019

Balfarg1982 said:
Would HST be better for the Fife circle instead of the 158s and 170s

No. The Fife Circle is primarily a commuter route so it is best served by trains with doors at the ⅓ and ⅔ positions. HSTs are best suited to long distance services.

Wst71Pa2 · 26 Feb 2019

Split/join at Markinch, Ladybank, please god no!!!

Clansman · 26 Feb 2019

Still a few 158s on Intercity services south of Aberdeen yesterday. Long way to go until the issue is sorted out - the worst thing is that one or 2 diagrams were booked for 170s as opposed to HSTs.

jingsmonty · 26 Feb 2019

najaB said:
No. The Fife Circle is primarily a commuter route so it is best served by trains with doors at the ⅓ and ⅔ positions. HSTs are best suited to long distance services.

Yep, spot on. Nothing wrong with floating ideas though...

jingsmonty · 26 Feb 2019

Refurbished set 3 undergoing final testing (HA24) at Doncaster. It's made up complete with Power Cars.

Highland37 · 26 Feb 2019

Good news!

chuff chuff · 26 Feb 2019

jingsmonty said:
Refurbished set 3 undergoing final testing (HA24) at Doncaster. It's made up complete with Power Cars.

Good they might actually make a deadline.

YorkshireBear · 26 Feb 2019

chuff chuff said:
Good they might actually make a deadline.

Surely all deadlines have been missed now!

gingertom · 26 Feb 2019

najaB said:
The Fife Circle is primarily a commuter route so it is best served by trains with doors at the ⅓ and ⅔ positions.

something like the 385 would be my shout there.

najaB · 26 Feb 2019

gingertom said:
something like the 385 would be my shout there.

Something tells me that you won't get very far with those for a few years yet...

cadder toad · 26 Feb 2019

43150 and 43183 were power cars on 0939 from Queen St to Aberdeen, Saturday 22 Feb.

Esker-pades · 26 Feb 2019

The second set will apparently be stabled in Haymarket P0 tomorrow for public viewing. Midday to 2pm only.

Source (seen on Facebook):

jingsmonty · 26 Feb 2019

gingertom said:
something like the 385 would be my shout there.

Once someone figures out how to put OHLE on the Forth Bridge....bit too far to coast otherwise :lol:

In seriousness, I think this is partly what the 20 odd Class 170s that Scotrail are intended for.

Stoney1979 · 26 Feb 2019

FelixtheCat said:
The second set will apparently be stabled in Haymarket P0 tomorrow for public viewing. Midday to 2pm only.

Source (seen on Facebook):

Given the state of things that's a very "courageous" decision by SR, in the same way that Jim Hacker was occasionally courageous. Still, I guess it proves that the refurbs are still the eventual goal to be aspired to.

EMU303 · 26 Feb 2019

Stoney1979 said:
Given the state of things that's a very "courageous" decision by SR, in the same way that Jim Hacker was occasionally courageous. Still, I guess it proves that the refurbs are still the eventual goal to be aspired to.

Maybe a few sets are "really imminent" this time...

Stoney1979 · 26 Feb 2019

EMU303 said:
Maybe a few sets are "really imminent" this time...

Mind you, 12-2pm on a weekday at Haymarket is hardly prime-time viewing. A cynic might suggest it's a decent effort to hide things, while still ticking a box somewhere saying a public viewing has been done.....

fraser158 · 26 Feb 2019

FelixtheCat said:
The second set will apparently be stabled in Haymarket P0 tomorrow for public viewing. Midday to 2pm only.

Source (seen on Facebook):

I wonder if this is the second set? It shows as running as required.

Arrive Platform 0 at 1133 and depart 1433.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/M16746/2019/02/27/advanced

najaB · 26 Feb 2019

fraser158 said:
I wonder if this is the second set? It shows as running as required

It would seem to be, yes.

Class83 · 26 Feb 2019

jingsmonty said:
Once someone figures out how to put OHLE on the Forth Bridge....bit too far to coast otherwise

In seriousness, I think this is partly what the 20 odd Class 170s that Scotrail are intended for.

Indeed, though there are currently 2 loco hauled mark 2 services on the Fife Circle every morning and evening. The delay introducing HSTs does however mean that all Fife Circle/Dundee Stopper services can't be operated by 6 car 170s which will be a big improvement at rush hour when it happens. I expect the loco hauls to continue until December given the shortages of diesel stock at the moment. The end door 158s are better suited to the Edinburgh-Dundee-Aberdeen/Edinburgh-Perth semi fasts which don't stop everywhere.

I think removing the Fife stops from the Aberdeen trains had 2 reasons behind it; as mentioned overcrowding, people will invariably get the train that takes 35 mins rather than the one that stops everywhere and takes 45 mins, and secondly, omitting 2-3 stops saves maybe 5 mins and when the SNP came in in 2007 a lot of their senior people represented Aberdeenshire, so faster journey times to there were politically more important than commuters in Fife.

najaB · 26 Feb 2019

Class83 said:
and secondly...

No need for the secondly, the first point explained it - the long distance services were full to the gills leaving Edinburgh in the evenings and emptied out by Kirkcaldy, while the Fife trains had lots of room (well, in comparison).

47271 · 26 Feb 2019

FelixtheCat said:
The second set will apparently be stabled in Haymarket P0 tomorrow for public viewing. Midday to 2pm only.

Now have a look at what you could've won.

If Jim Bowen was still alive he could be in charge of PR for Scotrail.

SC43090 · 26 Feb 2019

Stoney1979 said:
Mind you, 12-2pm on a weekday at Haymarket is hardly prime-time viewing. A cynic might suggest it's a decent effort to hide things, while still ticking a box somewhere saying a public viewing has been done.....

Would have thought a senseable time frame would be 0700 am to 1900 pm to show of the train to the public

SC 43090

Esker-pades · 26 Feb 2019

SC43090 said:
Would have thought a senseable time frame would be 0700 am to 1900 pm to show of the train to the public

SC 43090

How much time can one occupy platform 0? How much time can they have that train out of service not doing things like staff training?

jingsmonty · 27 Feb 2019

najaB said:
No need for the secondly, the first point explained it - the long distance services were full to the gills leaving Edinburgh in the evenings and emptied out by Kirkcaldy, while the Fife trains had lots of room (well, in comparison).

Makes sense...

jingsmonty · 27 Feb 2019

Stoney1979 said:
Mind you, 12-2pm on a weekday at Haymarket is hardly prime-time viewing. A cynic might suggest it's a decent effort to hide things, while still ticking a box somewhere saying a public viewing has been done.....

Maybe it's needed in service, perhaps? Staff were invited too - I can't go, but was told that other public viewings are planned.

alangla · 27 Feb 2019

FelixtheCat said:
How much time can one occupy platform 0? How much time can they have that train out of service not doing things like staff training?

Do they not need P0 for dumping cancelled Cumbernauld trains during the day anyway?

(runs)

Goldromans · 27 Feb 2019

Set 3 all formed up and ready to go at Wabtec.

https://twitter.com/ardler67/status/1100521836717195264?s=21

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