Indeed. For years the 313s covered 41 diagrams from 44 units and the combined mainline fleet was 60 from 65. Hornsey did a cracking job. Once all the 717s arrive they'll have a slightly higher spare ratio, 21 diagrams for 25 units.
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GN Class 717
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Indeed. For years the 313s covered 41 diagrams from 44 units and the combined mainline fleet was 60 from 65. Hornsey did a cracking job. Once all the 717s arrive they'll have a slightly higher spare ratio, 21 diagrams for 25 units.
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bramling
Veteran Member
Apart from some commuter flow from the villages to and from Cambridge, the 2Cxx services are pretty dead north of Letchworth. It would be no problem at all to turn one of them at Letchworth each hour. I can’t see the Cambridge North service being much use for London journeys as it is so slow, so it’s really only any use for local journeys. In theory one of the hourly Cambridge-Brighton services might be more useful, but there’s not enough turnaround time as things are.
I thought that once all 717 operated, the plan was to alter the workings to allow the skipped stations to be served again. Perhaps not all trains to Hornsey/Harringay (given some lines have no platform) but certainly serving Welham Green and Brookmans Park at a frequency of 4tph. Hopefully Saturday will get the 4tph service too, although I am not sure we really need that (we just need the 2tph to run and not have cancellations!).
It's mad to have a station like Hatfield skipped on a Moorgate service in the evening peak (because it conflicts with the WGC to KGX semi-fast trains).
It's mad to have a station like Hatfield skipped on a Moorgate service in the evening peak (because it conflicts with the WGC to KGX semi-fast trains).
Failed Unit
Established Member
That might be the ultimate long term goal, but the consultation timetable always had Welham Green and Brookmans park skipped
It was the peak service I was meaning, currently we have.
x02 and x32 into King Cross calling at Hadley wood (this wasn't in the plan but they need to cover the stops removed from the x24 and x54)
x09 and x39 into Kings Cross calling at all stations to Alexander Palace
x24 and x54 only calling at all stations to Potter Bar, New Barnet, Alexander Palace, All stations to Finsbury Park.
The extra Gordon Hill - Moorgate peak service was supposed to enable all peak WGC - Moorgate service to follow the x09 and x39 pattern as the Hertford Loop would take the Hornsey and Harringey passengers.
Although I don't use New Southgate, Oakleigh Park and Hadley would I would not be too happy with the unconsulted service cuts they have suffered in the peak.
I think the extra Gordon Hill - Moorgate services would have sorted out the issue at Hatfield, Bizarre you can go non-stop from WGC - Potters Bar. Not that I have done it yet.
bramling
Veteran Member
From a resilience point of view having the 2tph omit Welham Green and Brookmans Park is very useful, as it means it isn’t nearly so catastrophic if one of the 700 services gets stuck behind it (through one or other being late). To me there would need to be a very good reason to change this, and for me providing 4tph at two rather lightly used stations is not that good reason. I’d leave it as it is. I agree about the Hatfield situation though.
Failed Unit
Established Member
The transport minister
He uses Potters Bar now so he may not be as bothered as he once was!
Pretty sure commuters on the Hertford loop were promised the opposite, i.e. no need to stop at Harringay and Hornsey because that would be soaked up by the other branch.
At the moment we (on the loop) have a significantly worse service than 2 years ago, with almost all trains now being slow stoppers (no semi-fast skippers, which used to save a not insignificant 7-10 mins). Still just as overcrowded in the peak with no sign of any extra trains.
At the moment we (on the loop) have a significantly worse service than 2 years ago, with almost all trains now being slow stoppers (no semi-fast skippers, which used to save a not insignificant 7-10 mins). Still just as overcrowded in the peak with no sign of any extra trains.
Failed Unit
Established Member
I think the consultation timetable is further up this thread. But WGC - Moorgate was never planned to stop south of Alexander palace. The Cambridge service is too close by then.
What do you define as the peak? I get on at Hornsey between quarter and half past eight in the morning and I can often get a seat at Hornsey, and always once the train gets to Finsbury Park. They seem significantly less crowded than they were pre May 18 - I'm sure a lot of people have found a different way to work following that shambles.
bramling
Veteran Member
The whole thing is a bit messed up, although be fair it works reasonably well - when everything is running right time at least. But it’s not really ideal to be having Welwyn services using the no2 lines inwards of Alexandra Palace whilst Hertford services use the no1 lines, and having to cross each other on the level in the process.
Possibly an outcome of the decision to run the 2Cxx services exclusively on the slow line. I definitely recall reading paperwork in earlier years of the shambleslink programme intimating that these services would be on the fast lines south of Potters Bar. As an aside the platforming at Alexandra Palace on the up is also extremely passenger unfriendly, made worse by it not being an island platform.
BowesRanger
Member
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The line has been a car crash this week, all sorts of delays and cancellations (on the loop at least), is that just bad luck or something else going on?
Failed Unit
Established Member
Nothing new. GTR don’t have enough drivers and the 717s are not reliable yet.
Now we are in the summer holidays and drivers are spending time with their families GTRs poor planning is biting then. Expect the same until September.
Aictos
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Swap platforms which means Hertfords skipping Hornsey and Harringay with Welwyn’s picking up those stops means at Alexandra Palace in morning peak both up platforms can be used at same time and no timetable or route clashes will result.
Yes I know there’s reason to skip those stations on the Welwyn’s but the layout is more layout to favour the Hertford Loop.
I found this from 2016 about GTR driver shortages. Not much has changed. https://www.railmagazine.com/news/n...ges-and-train-issues-prompt-gtr-remedial-plan
Failed Unit
Established Member
September from what I understand - once they have more drivers and they are hoping the 717s might be a little more reliable by then following software updates.
EE Andy b1
Established Member
Glad the power was back on today in this part of London.!
Had my first runs on Class 717s. 717020 & 717005.
Siemens usual quality.
The air-con was just right for me, more cooler than warm, certainly appreciated down at Moorgate where it was rather warm.
Ride quality was good on plain line but jolted about a bit over points and crossings but not bad.
PIS looked a good system and worked well.
Them seats again, very firm but ok for what these units do. No cup holders, a big miss.
Plenty interior space to cram em in.
They'll do a job for the next 30 years.
Had my first runs on Class 717s. 717020 & 717005.
Siemens usual quality.
The air-con was just right for me, more cooler than warm, certainly appreciated down at Moorgate where it was rather warm.
Ride quality was good on plain line but jolted about a bit over points and crossings but not bad.
PIS looked a good system and worked well.
Them seats again, very firm but ok for what these units do. No cup holders, a big miss.
Plenty interior space to cram em in.
They'll do a job for the next 30 years.
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EE Andy b1
Established Member
Think they need a big update so at least the driver has a chance of a full re-set/re-start. Strange situation!
samuelmorris
Established Member
I think there'll definitely be an inquiry into this. The delay minutes it caused were vast. A run of the mill train fault situation should never cause other operators' services to be 500 late.
Fincra5
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Built to a Budget so there's a lot of flaws that come out in times like this.
As I understand it, they have a lot more computer controlled systems than the Desiro's they supercede, unlike the progression from Electrostar to Aventra, where the Electrostar had already begun incorporating computer control systems, so Siemens have had lots of software issues from lack of experience initially, with a lot of upgrades being suggested by GTR based on functionality of Bombardier products (I had a Siemens engineer in a 387 cab looking over the DOO reset process to implement it on the 700s, I'd imagine it would have made it into the 717s also)
samuelmorris
Established Member
That's worth remembering in the context of all the anti-Bombardier sentiments that pass around at times. That said, the computer systems on Aventras seem even more problematic so I suppose perhaps it is only that the Electrostars are mature, nothing more.
daniel1234321
Member
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- 3 Jan 2018
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- 160
Really been none since then? I get the 550 from GDH - MOG (starts at HFN) and it became a 717 on the 29th July. Weekend diagrams have definitely changed. Gone from 0 to 2 (might be 3 now) on a Sunday on the Hertford Loop since June.
Some of the stuff coming in the next software update for the 717s is simply to add in what the 700s already have is it not? I think the setup process is being simplified, and drivers will be able to set up the radio automatically. I guess as the 717s were being built and delivered, the 700s had already had a lot of updates/tweaks that has to be cascaded.
daniel1234321
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I hope it includes tube status like on the 700s
I was on a train in Bavaria a few years ago and before each station it told you the next few connecting trains you could catch from the station coming up. I was also impressed by some stations in central Munich that had platforms on both sides of the train - doors opened on both sides, one was exit only and one was entry only. Being German they by and large respected the intended flow.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Judging from the remarks from GTR though I gather that power cut day caught Siemens off-guard so I imagine there is still work to do for both classes in that regard (and presumably, would also have been if the 707s had been cascaded anywhere AC by now).
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