GN Class 717

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Mcq

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Joined
24 May 2019
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90
Tonight the Moorgate service was cancelled- the reason given was
'This train has been cancelled because of more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time'
Can this be really true?
If so there are some very serious questions to be asked.
 

Failed Unit

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26 Jan 2009
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Central Belt
Tonight the Moorgate service was cancelled- the reason given was
'This train has been cancelled because of more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time'
Can this be really true?
If so there are some very serious questions to be asked.
Yes. The 717s are less reliable than the 313s. So poor GTR have stopped reporting the MTIN to avoid embarrassment.

For info in December Oakliegh Park and New Southgate get their stops pack in the morning peak on the x24 and x54 services. Back to the pre May 2018 frequency. I guess they are hoping the 717s can stay out the way of the following Welwyn Garden City- Kings cross service.

The Gordon hill - Moorgate service still not in timetable. (So the 10 minute gap at end of morning peak from Finsbury Park - Moorgate remains). I suspect the 717s are not reliable enough yet to have these extra 2 diagrams.
 

Mcq

Member
Joined
24 May 2019
Messages
90
Hi Failed Unit
Is there a predominant issue that's hobbling the 717s at the moment - or is it random?
I guess you might just say 'software' but are there other demons at work?
Thanks for your replies
 

jon0844

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1 Feb 2009
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UK
The biggest delays I'm aware of have been down to 313s, and there aren't many of them in operation now.

I incorrectly thought a 717 caused the issue that blocked trains out of the NCL last week and it turned out to be a 313 with brakes locked on.
 

Failed Unit

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Hi Failed Unit
Is there a predominant issue that's hobbling the 717s at the moment - or is it random?
I guess you might just say 'software' but are there other demons at work?
Thanks for your replies
Not aware of any specific pattern of problems. Just the standard new train introduction glitches from what I understand. Also the 313s are simple beasts. Not much the drivers haven’t seen before so they will get them moving quicker when stuff goes wrong.
 

NSVX

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Joined
19 Sep 2019
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20
Location
Hertfordshire
Can confirm that GN are now operating a fleet consisting of more than 75% running as Class 717's. They need to introduce all 25 Units, in order to consider it a full roll out, but with units 16 and 17 recently coming in, they haven't got long to wait.

Already numerous 313's headed of too Newport Docks for scrapping, a great leaf to turn, heading onto a new and modernised fleet, but also a sad moment for all 313 fans (a dwindling number I can assure you however!)
 

andystock22

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Joined
27 Dec 2013
Messages
44
I think they need 20 class 717s for the weekday service and 8 for weekends.

Today it looks like 16 class 717s in service and 4 pairs of class 313s in service.
 

NSVX

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19 Sep 2019
Messages
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Location
Hertfordshire
I think they need 20 class 717s for the weekday service and 8 for weekends.

Today it looks like 16 class 717s in service and 4 pairs of class 313s in service.
Yep sounds right to me. In total 25 units are needed as 'backups' as we all know about the extreme unreliability that is pervelant from the Franchise!
 

NSVX

Member
Joined
19 Sep 2019
Messages
20
Location
Hertfordshire
Yes. The 717s are less reliable than the 313s. So poor GTR have stopped reporting the MTIN to avoid embarrassment.

For info in December Oakliegh Park and New Southgate get their stops pack in the morning peak on the x24 and x54 services. Back to the pre May 2018 frequency. I guess they are hoping the 717s can stay out the way of the following Welwyn Garden City- Kings cross service.

The Gordon hill - Moorgate service still not in timetable. (So the 10 minute gap at end of morning peak from Finsbury Park - Moorgate remains). I suspect the 717s are not reliable enough yet to have these extra 2 diagrams.
I do not believe that it is necessarily to do with the actual units themselves, but more so the lack of drivers to drive them, and of course unfamiliarity with the new train-sets, this was foreseeable, and in some ways avoidable, but GTR seemingly didn't appear to take many steps to prevent disruption to travellers.
 

Peter Mugridge

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8 Apr 2010
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Epsom
They need to introduce all 25 Units, in order to consider it a full roll out, but with units 16 and 17 recently coming in, they haven't got long to wait.
They have more than 17 in traffic already; I've had 20 of them for haulage and a mate of mine has had three of the other five so there's at least 23 already available for passenger use.
 

BowesRanger

Member
Joined
16 Jul 2018
Messages
100
Overall well.

The main talking point is the seats. Which are marmite and the poor reliability.
Yeah the seats a bit uncomfortable (for me at least) but overall theyre a much nicer place to be than a 313. Plus, and most importantly, ive yet to encounter a train i couldn't board. Which was a weekly occurrence with the old fleet.

Oh and the aircon is a massive difference
 

Bikeman78

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Joined
26 Apr 2018
Messages
946
I think they need 20 class 717s for the weekday service and 8 for weekends.

Today it looks like 16 class 717s in service and 4 pairs of class 313s in service.
21 units on weekdays, used to be 20 pairs of 313s and one single. Only three park up off peak. Off peak there are 10 sets working Welwyn/Watton (these diagrams shunt to platform 1 at Welwyn) and eight sets do Welwyn/Hertford with a short turn round at Welwyn.

There are still five pairs of 313s this week; three out all day, two peaks only. At weekends they require nine units, four to Welwyn and five to Watton and Stevenage.
 

tofl

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Joined
23 Nov 2018
Messages
39
Been using them for a while having used 313s for many years - mainly peak time but some off peak/weekends.
In rough order of importance, these are what I see as the Pros:
You can get onto the train you wanted to board, because there's more space and people move down inside the carriages more
Air conditioning
Cleaner
Brighter
Smoother
If you do get a seat, you're less likely to get squeezed in a row of three
Passenger info
Sockets
Wifi (though it doesn't work very well for me whenever I try it)

And the cons
If you're sitting by the window the foot nearest the window is forced in by the trunking along the side of the train
Fewer seats (though this is also a Pro depending on which train you get and what station you get on at, see above)
Possible missed opportunity because there are no toilets (though understand space limitations)
Doors in last carriage don't open at all stations (though this doesn't bother me very much)
Disruption due to driver training, reliability and issues with resetting after failures/outages - hopefully these will diminish over time
 

03_179

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13 Aug 2008
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London
Afternoon all,

I intending on getting a few 717s as haulage on Thursday next week.

Do they all have Wifi (even in the NCL underground stations) ?

How busy is 2J32 Godon Hill to Morgate (08:34 from Finsbury Park) ?
I should be starting on that one.

I'm hoping to do a rolling Blog (wifi permitting) but I'll do a full report on my blog later in the day.
 

717001

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Joined
4 Aug 2018
Messages
163
Afternoon all,

I intending on getting a few 717s as haulage on Thursday next week.

Do they all have Wifi (even in the NCL underground stations) ?

How busy is 2J32 Godon Hill to Morgate (08:34 from Finsbury Park) ?
I should be starting on that one.

I'm hoping to do a rolling Blog (wifi permitting) but I'll do a full report on my blog later in the day.
There’s no WiFi yet between Drayton Park and Moorgate, but all 717s have it elsewhere. Adjacent Highbury and Islington Victoria Line platforms have it, but can’t usually connect on GN platforms.
 

Skimpot flyer

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Joined
16 Nov 2012
Messages
583
I think they need 20 class 717s for the weekday service and 8 for weekends.

Today it looks like 16 class 717s in service and 4 pairs of class 313s in service.
Are service levels at weekends really only half that of the weekday levels? Seems a big difference in units required to operate the timetable
 

jellybaby

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Joined
27 Dec 2012
Messages
326
There’s no WiFi yet between Drayton Park and Moorgate, but all 717s have it elsewhere. Adjacent Highbury and Islington Victoria Line platforms have it, but can’t usually connect on GN platforms.
You can get 4G (on at least 1 network...) on the north end of a train while in the platforms at Highbury & Islington.

The current 717 WiFi isn't a lot of use. The lack of tunnel coverage combined with the 50MB cap makes me wonder why they bothered.
 

jon0844

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1 Feb 2009
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UK
You can get 4G (on at least 1 network...) on the north end of a train while in the platforms at Highbury & Islington.

The current 717 WiFi isn't a lot of use. The lack of tunnel coverage combined with the 50MB cap makes me wonder why they bothered.
You're only slowed down after 50MB, so it isn't a hard cap. And pre and post cap isn't a massive difference anyway. I think it caps around 2Mbps or maybe less, but certainly fast enough for email, social media or web browsing. Streaming is blocked anyway.
 

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