GN Class 717

[Failed Unit]

I have heard 13 diagrams covered by them on weekdays. But can’t back that up with a diagram list just platform gossip. They do seem to be on the majority of weekday trains I use but the 313s seem to rule the weekends. (Again can’t back this up with diagrams. Just experiences of the times I travel and watching what passes in the other direction)

 

[jon0844]

Points failure today means no Moorgate trains from WGC this morning. A pretty major incident and I assume a result of an issue during last night's engineering work?

 

[Failed Unit]

Points failure today means no Moorgate trains from WGC this morning. A pretty major incident and I assume a result of an issue during last night's engineering work?

Some are running. Big delays put one was in heading to Moorgate when a passenger through. On platform 1 after using the ladder.

 

[jon0844]

Some are running. Big delays put one was in heading to Moorgate when a passenger through. On platform 1 after using the ladder.

Yes some have been running. Later today it seems more will terminate at Alexandra Palace as WGC is at a high risk of being overwhelmed in the evening peak.

This is a time where the extra capacity of a 717 and the air conditioning will prove their worth.

 

[Team Defect]

Further 717 unit introductions currently on hold due to reliability issues. Looks like the remaining 313s are going to be around for a bit longer. Caused by various issues with traction controller software, cab to saloon door setup, software and reliability issues and various other software issues. New software due soon. Cab to saloon door checks on going. If the new software is successful the 717 introductions will continue.

 

[Failed Unit]

A lot of failed trains today. Not a good day for travel. At least 2 of the 717s

I was on a 313 tonight. Amazing how hot they are on the NCL

Does the air conditioning of the 717s switch off if the driver is changing ends? This morning I got on one at WGC and it was warm. Thinking that this wasnt going to be nice as you can’t open windows, it started cooling after WGC. I assumed it was switched off while the driver was away.

My colleague was going to wait for a 717, but i did highlight no-body knows when the next one will arrive. With the large number of cancellations at hot old train is better than no train.

 

[jon0844]

When I've waited on a 717 as the driver changes end (I went from Old Street to Moorgate to come back so I'd get a seat) the air conditioning didn't go off BUT it was quite warm as many units were/are before the software update that I assume makes it a little more aggressive like the 700s.

 

[theking]

Maybe it goes into stabling mode like bombardier trains to conserve power I think they go to 50% AC.

 

[jon0844]

Maybe it goes into stabling mode like bombardier trains to conserve power I think they go to 50% AC.

Isn't that also when it reduces the lighting level? On a 387 it's like emergency lighting. On a 700 and I assume a 717, it dims.

Talking of which, are 717s dimmer by default?

 

[Ethano92]

Isn't that also when it reduces the lighting level? On a 387 it's like emergency lighting. On a 700 and I assume a 717, it dims.

Talking of which, are 717s dimmer by default?

I'm not sure but they do seem less bright than 700s and 707s for that matter. Saying that, drivers of 700s can apparently switch the lighting to a dimmer mode manually but only some do.

 

[D.K.TAYLOR]

A lot of failed trains today. Not a good day for travel. At least 2 of the 717s

I was on a 313 tonight. Amazing how hot they are on the NCL

Does the air conditioning of the 717s switch off if the driver is changing ends? This morning I got on one at WGC and it was warm. Thinking that this wasnt going to be nice as you can’t open windows, it started cooling after WGC. I assumed it was switched off while the driver was away.

My colleague was going to wait for a 717, but i did highlight no-body knows when the next one will arrive. With the large number of cancellations at hot old train is better than no train.

I was stranded at Essex Road and Drayton Park for some time due to failures and more cancelled due to lack of crew but the air con on the 717s yesterday was a welcome relief

 

[sgraIRL]

Is 313122 (low back seating) still in service? Its the only one I am missing!

 

[D.K.TAYLOR]

Is 313122 (low back seating) still in service? Its the only one I am missing!

It was on Wednesday paired with 313048

 

[sgraIRL]

It was on Wednesday paired with 313048

Thanks!

 

[Mcq]

Anyone know what unit had it's window smashed today and went out of service?

 

[Class315]

Anyone know what unit had it's window smashed today and went out of service?

A pair of 313's. 313032 + 052 which returned to Hornsey, 032 has remained on depot. 052 has been remarshalled with 122 and is back out on circuit.

 

[Mcq]

A pair of 313's. 313032 + 052 which returned to Hornsey, 032 has remained on depot. 052 has been remarshalled with 122 and is back out on circuit.

Brilliant info - thanks

 

[nigelsporne]

The service was in complete chaos yesterday afternoon with only one train going into Moorgate between 4 and 5 o'clock. The reasons given were insufficient train crew, broken down train and an object on the overhead wires. Services were running at about half hourly intervals at best from about 3 ish. 717s predominated with about 3 sets of 313s. There was 4 x 717s visible in Hornsey with none in Ferme Park.

 

[Failed Unit]

The service was in complete chaos yesterday afternoon with only one train going into Moorgate between 4 and 5 o'clock. The reasons given were insufficient train crew, broken down train and an object on the overhead wires. Services were running at about half hourly intervals at best from about 3 ish. 717s predominated with about 3 sets of 313s. There was 4 x 717s visible in Hornsey with none in Ferme Park.

Lots of cancellations listed today because of driver shortages. It is the summer holidays so I suspect the drivers will be less keen to volunteer to do extra overtime (who can blame them to be honest). Couple this with leave requests I suspect the service will be a bit patchy until then end of the school holidays.

Interesting that GTR are no longer reporting the 717s MTIN on Modern Railways monthly new trains feature. I suspect it is embarrassing low they around rather we didn't know.

 

[Class315]

The service was in complete chaos yesterday afternoon with only one train going into Moorgate between 4 and 5 o'clock. The reasons given were insufficient train crew, broken down train and an object on the overhead wires. Services were running at about half hourly intervals at best from about 3 ish. 717s predominated with about 3 sets of 313s. There was 4 x 717s visible in Hornsey with none in Ferme Park.

Services came to a stand on the Hertford Loop Yesterday afternoon as a Balloon tripped the Overheads at Gordon Hill and then wrapped itself around the pantograph of 313032, which then returned to Hornsey with its pantograph lowered, which caused more cancellations than originally planned.

717017 & 015 returned back to the Great Northern network overnight. 017 is currently stabled in Ferme Park. 015 is currently on 13 road at Hornsey at time of posting.

 

[SeaKing]

Has 019 entered service yet.

 

[bramling]

Lots of cancellations listed today because of driver shortages. It is the summer holidays so I suspect the drivers will be less keen to volunteer to do extra overtime (who can blame them to be honest). Couple this with leave requests I suspect the service will be a bit patchy until then end of the school holidays.

I think this is a fair summary, although presumably they must be reaching the point where the amount of training required (both stock and route) should be starting to dry up - especially if Welwyn-Sevenoaks sounds like it’s not now going to be being delivered in December.

The departure boards still present a pretty sorry sight. There’s pretty much guaranteed to be a cancellation or two - if it’s not down to train crew then it’s down to fault with the train.

 

[jon0844]

Welwyn to Sevenoaks and the other new services through the core definitely happening next May.

 

[bramling]

Welwyn to Sevenoaks and the other new services through the core definitely happening next May.

That’s roughly what I heard. Do I take it the other services are Cambridge-Maidstone East?

 

[Failed Unit]

Welwyn to Sevenoaks and the other new services through the core definitely happening next May.

Really? I was worried they would never happen as 24tph was undeliverable with GTR running the show. That is good news it is still on the cards. 2 years late.

Do you know if the extra Moorgate - Gordon Hill peak services will happen in December? They should have enough 717s by then. Not sure about trained drivers however.

 

[ijmad]

That’s roughly what I heard. Do I take it the other services are Cambridge-Maidstone East?

We are currently 19tph through the core during the peaks. The missing five from the original plan are:

• 2tph Cambridge to Maidstone East (which links existing 2tph from Kings Cross to Cambridge with 2tph out to Maidstone/Ashford - unsure if this will see the end of Southeastern peak services to Maidstone/Ashford out of Blackfriars we currently see)
• 2tph Sevenoaks to Welwyn GC (which links current Thameslink services terminating at Blackfriars and Kings Cross)
• An extra train per hour (1tph to 2ph) from Bedford to/from Littlehampton during the peaks in the peak direction only.

 

[bramling]

Really? I was worried they would never happen as 24tph was undeliverable with GTR running the show. That is good news it is still on the cards. 2 years late.

Do you know if the extra Moorgate - Gordon Hill peak services will happen in December? They should have enough 717s by then. Not sure about trained drivers however.

Well, whether the Maidstone/Sevenoaks to/from GN services are deliverable reliably is a matter for debate. The service is lumpy enough as it is, without potentially 2-4tph getting tangled up with the 717s between London and Welwyn, through Stevenage, or on the Cambridge branch.

So for December it seems the main changes are the Cambridge North services being cut back to Cambridge (swap with GA), and the Moorgate services diverted to KX during the weekends and evenings.

 

[Failed Unit]

Well, whether the Maidstone/Sevenoaks to/from GN services are deliverable reliably is a matter for debate. The service is lumpy enough as it is, without potentially 2-4tph getting tangled up with the 717s between London and Welwyn, through Stevenage, or on the Cambridge branch.

So for December it seems the main changes are the Cambridge North services being cut back to Cambridge (swap with GA), and the Moorgate services diverted to KX during the weekends and evenings.

The poor people of Hadley Wood, Oakleigh Park and New Southgate continue to have to put up with their reduced service in the peak (again for 2 years).

Be interesting what the views is on the Cambridge North cutback. I know it hasn't ran for long, and is only 1TPH - but still most of the times cutback in services are a bad thing. Saying that the first sign of delay the cut it to Cambridge anyway so it probably wasn't reliable enough to have a Royston - Cambridge north flow established.

How I remember when GN was boring and just worked (before GTR). Love to have those days back rather than even now constant cancellations because of lack of drivers or failed units.

 

[swat]

So for December it seems the main changes are the Cambridge North services being cut back to Cambridge (swap with GA), and the Moorgate services diverted to KX during the weekends and evenings.

Hang on - I thought services into Moorgate were here to stay? Why the diversions to KX?

 

[swt_passenger]

Hang on - I thought services into Moorgate were here to stay? Why the diversions to KX?

It’s for one timetable period to allow a deep clean of the tunnels.
Please see the info in this thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/moorgate-weekend-services.186760/#post-4124320