Avantix Machine & "Not Via..........."

reb0118 · 6 Oct 2012

This is one for all avantix users. I was checking fares from Barry to Bridgend in conjunction with my forthcoming trip to Wales and I noticed that there were two routes for fares: "any permitted" and "not via.........." but the question is - not via where?

Without printing out a ticket an avantix user would not know which routing was prohibited on such a ticket for any routes that they were not familiar with as we are no longer issued with fares manuals nor routing guides.

Do any other users find this a small nuisience. What could be done to alliviate the problem?

With regard to the above fare I took a guess at "not via Cardiff" and I was right!

RailUK Forums

embers25 · 6 Oct 2012

My Avantix says Not via Cardiff as it should so where is the issue?

reb0118 · 6 Oct 2012

embers25 said:
My Avantix says Not via Cardiff as it should so where is the issue?

My avantix says "Not Via .........." for all "Not via xxxxx" routings as far as I can see. It is not a real problem for local fares that are known to us but I suppose it could cause a problem for lesser known longer distance fares &c.

Ferret · 6 Oct 2012

Reb0118 is right - it is a total pain in the arse. I have to remember what fares were what before things changed and guess from there. Only once have I had to non-issue cos I'd made a horlicks of it but I bet others have made umpteen cock ups. On the plus side, Atos Origin are aware of the problem and are supposed to be fixing it. Quite why it takes so long I don't know...........

michael769 · 6 Oct 2012

Ferret said:
Quite why it takes so long I don't know...........

It will take a while to design the new bugs that the update will introduce.

GadgetMan · 6 Oct 2012

Yep, it's been like that for around 18 months now. A fix was close to being implemented around June 2011. They must have forgotten :lol:

.

As others have said, it's not a problem when issuing local tickets I am familiar with but can be for long distance tickets or connecting tickets if a passenger wishes to buy one for a later journey in another part of the country.

If I get stuck I usually load the fares up on my smart phone on a TOC App that shows the fares available with route restriction, this obviously only works when a Internet signal is available.

Flamingo · 6 Oct 2012

I'll issue & then non-issue the ticket if I am unsure. I second Ferrets opinion, it's a total pain in the arrse!

Solent&Wessex · 6 Oct 2012

reb0118 said:
My avantix says "Not Via .........." for all "Not via xxxxx" routings as far as I can see. It is not a real problem for local fares that are known to us but I suppose it could cause a problem for lesser known longer distance fares &c.

My Avantix is the same, and it is a real pain.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Flamingo said:
I'll issue & then non-issue the ticket if I am unsure. I second Ferrets opinion, it's a total pain in the arrse!

I'll do the same. And I'll third Ferret's opinion.

John @ home · 6 Oct 2012

embers25 said:
My Avantix says Not via Cardiff as it should so where is the issue?

Posts 1 and 3 - 8 are a debate between railway professionals about the bugs in the Avantix Mobile system used by on-train staff. We have had this debate several times.

embers25 is correctly reporting that the Avantix Traveller NFM 13 CD shows routes NOT VIA CARDIFF and ANY PERMITTED for Barry - Bridgend fares.

The Avantix Mobile problem is truncation of the "route" description. See the photo posted by kwvr45 in post #10 of this thread.

Eagle · 6 Oct 2012

GadgetMan said:
Yep, it's been like that for around 18 months now.

Specifically, when routings 'X' and 'not X' were changed to the clearer but longer 'via X' and 'not via X'. (Routings of the type 'X not Y' seem not to have been changed, possibly because there's just not enough room for an extra four characters.)

RPI · 6 Oct 2012

Flamingo said:
I'll issue & then non-issue the ticket if I am unsure. I second Ferrets opinion, it's a total pain in the arrse!

Thats what i end up doing!

ATW Alex 101 · 7 Oct 2012

Is Avantix the machine guards have to print off tickets

MidnightFlyer · 7 Oct 2012

Indeed it is.

Solent&Wessex · 7 Oct 2012

John @ home said:
Posts 1 and 3 - 8 are a debate between railway professionals about the bugs in the Avantix Mobile system used by on-train staff. We have had this debate several times.

embers25 is correctly reporting that the Avantix Traveller NFM 13 CD shows routes NOT VIA CARDIFF and ANY PERMITTED for Barry - Bridgend fares.

The Avantix Mobile problem is truncation of the "route" description. See the photo posted by kwvr45 in post #10 of this thread.

Here is a better example of what it actually appears like. Again, whilst for a local journey such as this I know that it actually means "Not Via Leeds", but for some tickets that you don't see or sell that often there is no way of finding out what it means unless you print the ticket off.

(p.s. - by pure coincidence this was taken exactly 1 year ago, so don't worry that the fares are wrong!)

calc7 · 7 Oct 2012

If you have a 3G phone you could load the fares database using brfares.com on your mobile browser? Might be easier than issuing and un-issing a ticket.

telstarbox · 7 Oct 2012

"NV LEEDS" (NV = not via) would take up less space and allow the operator to differentiate between multiple routes.

Paul Kelly · 7 Oct 2012

But that's even less clear than "NOT LEEDS" which is what is used to be and which was fine for the limited display width on the Avantix Mobile PDAs! Personally I think the whole thing was a really daft change, as they only made the route descriptions that were clear anyway clearer and did nothing about the unclear ones, e.g. "WARMSTER-SALSBRY" - why does that have a dash in the middle when all others that require travel via two stations (e.g. "DORCHSTR HONITON", "WESTBRY SALISBRY") have a space? Does it mean anything? If not, why not remove it if you're making a conscious effort to make the route descriptions clearer?

And does a slash between two stations always been you may go either via one or the other, e.g. in "ASCOT/GUILDFORD" or "HASSOCKS/HORSHAM"? If so, what about "NOT PRESTN/LPOOL"? Does that mean you can choose either Preston or Liverpool as the station to avoid?!

I also wondered was there any reason why "DERBY YORK" wasn't changed to "VIA DERBY & YORK"; there's enough space.

[I realise that this forum post reads like one of those whingy letters to the editor that use the word "surely" a lot...]

BestWestern · 9 Oct 2012

The whole Avantix system is outdated and in need of replacement. TThe odd tweak here and there smacks of turd polishing, and as we can see here does little to help. The actual equipment itself is often completely sh*gged, which further hinders your attempts at earning the company some money, and the problems with declined debit cards are well documented.

The TOCs 'lease' their Avantix equipment, and it's quite clear to many of us who have to suffer it day in day out that they are being royally ripped off! It's high time Atoc put some pressure on to get something modern in to replace it.

34D · 9 Oct 2012

Referring to the picture taken by kwvr45 can I enquire whether the tickets marked as 'via Leeds' actually print as 'any permitted'?

John @ home · 9 Oct 2012

34D said:
can I enquire whether the tickets marked as 'via Leeds' actually print as 'any permitted'?

No, they don't. Wakefield Stns - Huddersfield has two sets of fares: Via Leeds and Not Via Leeds.

For all ticket types, the Via Leeds fare is more expensive. As a result, the example on page F17 of The National Routeing Guide in Detail allows the holder of a ticket routed Via Leeds to travel by a Permitted Route which avoids Leeds.

BestWestern · 9 Oct 2012

John @ home said:
No, they don't. Wakefield Stns - Huddersfield has two sets of fares: Via Leeds and Not Via Leeds.

For all ticket types, the Via Leeds fare is more expensive. As a result, the example on page F17 of The National Routeing Guide in Detail allows the holder of a ticket routed Via Leeds to travel by a Permitted Route which avoids Leeds.

Thank God they don't make us actually read this wibble is all I can say. Guards would need more degrees than an astrophysicist :roll:

When it comes to ticketing issues, you can't beat a bit of common sense in my humble view, works every time!

GadgetMan · 9 Oct 2012

Here's another example. Could be;

Not Via Birmingham, or
Not Via London

bb21 · 10 Oct 2012

Everytime I see a screenshot, I cringe at how poorly designed they are, and how ineffective space is used. Why do "TType" / "Route" / "Fare" require such big fonts and so much space, while "To" and "From" stations are in considerably smaller letters?

2Dogbox · 10 Oct 2012

Yes this a complete pain. I had to do a couple of more unusual long distance tickets the other day, and had to play a game of "guess where the not via ...... Is" I got the impression the passenger thought I didn't know what I was doing.

Ferret · 10 Oct 2012

2Dogbox said:
Yes this a complete pain. I had to do a couple of more unusual long distance tickets the other day, and had to play a game of "guess where the not via ...... Is" I got the impression the passenger thought I didn't know what I was doing.

Nothing worse than being made to look like a tool by your equipment! I wish Atos would get it fixed!

causton · 10 Oct 2012

bb21 said:
Everytime I see a screenshot, I cringe at how poorly designed they are, and how ineffective space is used. Why do "TType" / "Route" / "Fare" require such big fonts and so much space, while "To" and "From" stations are in considerably smaller letters?

I'd hazard a guess that the touch screens used are crap, so it would help to make the buttons as big as possible!

ainsworth74 · 10 Oct 2012

Ferret said:
I wish Atos would get it fixed!

That depends on how they fix it. Sometimes Atos 'fixes' can make things worse!

2Dogbox · 10 Oct 2012

Ferret said:
Nothing worse than being made to look like a tool by your equipment! I wish Atos would get it fixed!

Yes as other posters have said, it should have been sorted out by now. I must also add that after looking an idiot for not knowing where the "not via" was the thing then auto non issued the ticket because it "failed to communicate with printer" at which point the passenger actually said "have you been doing this job long?" :roll:

Ferret · 10 Oct 2012

Grrrr, Auto non-isssues - usually when you haven't sold a ticket in the last half an hour. Irritating as hell. Only had one of those today - must be some kind of record.

34D · 11 Oct 2012

The actual machines you guys carry around, are they a commercial product (like a PDA) or are they a special piece of hardware made by ATOS?

Avantix Machine & "Not Via..........."

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