1973 tube stock for Isle of Wight

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by A60K, 27 Feb 2010.

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  1. A60K

    A60K Established Member

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    Noticed in another place that, according to the answers given in their recent webchat, SWT plan to replace the 1938 stock on the Island Line with 1973 stock from the Piccadilly line when that is replaced in a few years time.

     
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  3. royaloak

    royaloak Established Member

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    Cant see that happening, much to "modern".
     
  4. TheExmoorBeast

    TheExmoorBeast Member

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    Why not just employ class 139's or let the steam railway have it!
     
  5. transportphoto

    transportphoto Established Member Quizmaster

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  6. CCF23

    CCF23 Member

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    Both would have clearance issues in the Ryde tunnels. Although the steam railway plans to reach Ryde St John's Road soon. The tunnels would have to be lowered in order for trains of standard gauge to fit through.

    Personally i would like to see 1967 stock most as these are my favourite tube stock, but i can understand them going for 1973 stock as these were refurbished later and seem to be in good condition.
     
  7. mrcheek

    mrcheek Established Member

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    Im glad I clicked on that link!
    I dont like how the Island LIne trains look in SWT logos, but theres some really interesting stuff there. especially love the Queen's pacer!
     
  8. devon_metro

    devon_metro Established Member

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    They won't be using 1973 tube stock. Believe the plan is either Victoria Line or 1972 stock.
     
  9. Daniel

    Daniel Established Member

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    Q21 & Q142


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  10. Fincra5

    Fincra5 Established Member

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    Well that seems to make more sence as the VIC stock will be withdrawn sooner.
     
  11. Daniel

    Daniel Established Member

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    See post above.

    The Picc 73TS stock perhaps makes for a better option as it is modern as opposed to the conventional Vic 67TS.
     
  12. Fincra5

    Fincra5 Established Member

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    Posted it at the same time as the Questions.. But now i see the 1973 is better.
     
  13. ChrisCooper

    ChrisCooper Established Member

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    "Also if the Island Line does receive 1973 Tube Stock, then wouldn’t each unit be formed of three carriages due to the location of the air compressor in the Trailer vehicle and the position of the motors are in the Driving Motor vehicles?"

    No, they will do the same as they did with the 1938 stock and move the compressors under the motor coaches.

    For the person who suggested the 139s, get real. They have nothing like the required capacity, and really are not suited to a route of that length. Increased frequency is not an option unless the route is double tracked, and to be honest by the time that amount of money is spent you might as well just rebuilt the Ryde tunnel and get some proper trains not toy trains.

    To be honest, my "money is no object" proposal for the Island Line would involve conversion to mainline stock (probably ex-SWT 455s) south of Ryde St Johns, including capacity enchancements, line speed improvements and re-opening (at least Ventnor, if not other routes). Esplanade to St Johns, including the infamous tunnel, would close, and Esplanade to Pier head would be replaced by a Tramway which would then run down to St Johns and other destinations. My other solution would be the same, but would have the trams joining the IOWR formation at St Johns, with the option of some street running at other places. For now though, old tube stock seems to do the job nicely.
     
  14. Drsatan

    Drsatan Established Member

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    In fact, I'd turn Ryde-Shanklin into a tram line. A tram would fit through St John's tunnel quite nicely, and if 'drive by sight' is used a more frequent service could be run. The stations would be rebuilt with lower platforms, a couple of halts would be opened along the line (I read an article in an old edition of RAIL that proposed opening a couple of halts near Shanklin) since a tram would be better suited to short distances between stops. A tramway would offer a more frequent service in the summer and trams could be used for street running: the line IMO should be extended to Shanklin town centre since the station's a 20 minute walk away from the beach. I'd also investigating building a second line from Sandown to Sandown beach, and then along the seafront to Shanklin and Shanklin station. In the summer vintage trams could be run on that section because that would attract the tourists.

    I'd consider reopening Brading-Bembridge since the trackbed's still there; even though the old station's now a private residence space for a tramstop could be found somewhere. Reopening Shanklin-Ventnor would be desirable although the railway bridge over the main road immediately after the station would have to be reinstated. The only problem would be Wroxall tunnel since there's now a water main inside, which would have to go somewhere. Remember, Ventnor station used to be way above the town so again a new site would have to be found.

    However, Newport - Cowes would seem viable since the trackbed's still there as a cycle track and street running would be possible in Newport and Cowes.
     
  15. Metadyneman

    Metadyneman Member

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    I think it's a splendid idea to continue with the tube train theme especially the 1973 stock. Island line missed a golden opportunity to replace the 38 stock when LUL withdrew the 59/62 stock.. similar design, aluminium body some compatible parts etc. (The brake controllers from 59 stock are fitted to the Island line trains which emphasises that point). The 67 stock is ok but they would have to spend a bit more on converting it to manual cointrol (remember the 67 stock ist ATO fitted). The 73 stock is a logical choice in my view. Not only that it assures the 38 stock a few more years of running and it will be a sad day when they are eventually withdrawn.
     
  16. Fincra5

    Fincra5 Established Member

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    I hope Stagecoach continue to use Tube stock for many years to come :). It makes its a more interesting route than if it were just mainline stuff.
     
  17. Helvellyn

    Helvellyn Established Member

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    The benefit of the '73 stock is that it has cabside doors, unlike the '67 and '72 stock.

    The '73 stock is also due to be replaced before the '72 stock on the Bakerloo, whilst the interiors on the '73 stock were given a much more comprehensive upgrade during refurbishment along the lines of the new Northern/Jubilee Line stock (and that was also planned to have been used on the '83 stock had that been refurbished).

    I suspect that the fact the Mk II '83 stock required a major interior refurbishment stopped any consideration of getting that stock for the Island Line. The single leaf doors would not have been an issue on the Island Line, plus the Mk II stock was considered more reliable than the Mk I '83 stock (hence the plan to rebuild the Mk II stock to be used alongside the '73 stock on the Piccadilly Line).
     
  18. Dstock7080

    Dstock7080 Established Member

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    This would be quite an interesting plan! as since refurbishment the '73 Stock doesn't have much available space under the DM cars, after the fitting of the static converters there.
     
  19. Fincra5

    Fincra5 Established Member

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    I'm not sure why the Island Line wont run them as 3 car units. The platforms can handle trains of that length and it means less has to be done to them.
     
  20. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    IMO It's an excellent idea to continue with the tube stock. It's a tried and tested solution, the 3rd rail infrastructure is already there and realistically London Underground will be a never-ending source of rolling stock for as long as London exists.
     
  21. Drsatan

    Drsatan Established Member

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    I'm not so sure about whether the Island Line could continue to be a dumping ground for withdrawn LUL stock. I'd prefer it if the line was converted to a tramway since that would allow a more frequent service to be run. Because trams are capable of street running (whereas that's out of the question with third-rail stock), conversion of the Island Line to a tramway would allow an extension to Shanklin town centre.

    You have to remember that the locals should have the first say as to what happens to their railway. Enthusiasts might like the ability to ride up and down all day on withdrawn tube trains but I'm not sure whether 'Caulkheads' would want cast-off tube trains :)
     
  22. Metadyneman

    Metadyneman Member

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    Without wishing to appear abrasive, the way The Isle of Wight actually seems to let everything rot (e.g Ryde Pier & Esplanade) I'm really surprised it has any railway at all! So the "Caulkheads" on that north eastern side of the Island should really count themselves lucky in a way.

    Bringing it back to subject though, I would have thought 2-car trains are perfectly adequate, especially as the 73 stock cars are somewhat longer than the 67 & 72 stock.

    The 83 stock I believe was considered by Stagecoach as a replacement but because of all the problems LU were having with both Mk1 and Mk 11 versions they stuck with the "devil they knew" in the 1938 stock. I think this is possibly why the '38 stock has lasted so long. It was built to last unlike the plasticised over lit rubbish we have to endure now on the tube.
     
  23. LondonLarry

    LondonLarry Member

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    So few people use Island Line, the council would have a very hard time trying to justify funding for a scheme to convert the line from heavy to light rail.
     
  24. asylumxl

    asylumxl Established Member

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    I think we should give them Pacers!
     
    Last edited: 9 Mar 2010
  25. Drsatan

    Drsatan Established Member

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    Nooo :(

    Pacers wouldn't fit through Ryde Tunnel. Because the tunnel had a tendency to flood, the trackbed was raised by about 10 inches in the late 1960s which precludes anything other than tube trains from using it. A couple of years ago due to roadworks above the tunnel the opportunity was there to lower the trackbed again (so, in the future, Isle of Wight Steam Railway services could head through the tunnel to Ryde Pier Head), but NR didn't take that opportunity :(
     
  26. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    I must admit, I'm a bit sceptical about trams myself, not least because I can't see them offering much in terms of passenger comfort over heavy stock. That said, if the locals prefer a tram conversion and can justify the cost then it's worth considering :)
     
  27. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Member

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    Oi, you can keep your pacers on the mainland thankyou very much :)

    Tbh, i dont think people are that bothered by travelling on ex-tube stock, its a 20 minute journey at most. That said, CWR and proper ballast not shingle would certainly help improve the ride.

    With regards to 3 car trains, i really dont think thats practical. You can only get 2-car sets inside the works and 3 isnt enough during the summer. The current arrangement works perfectly well.

    Chris
     
  28. A0wen

    A0wen Established Member

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    In fact if they wanted to make it even easier, they could convert it to 4 rails and 630v....... which would negate the need to even re-engineer the stock :D
     
  29. Burkitt

    Burkitt Member

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    [​IMG]
    This image created by Paul Burkitt-Gray is based on a photo by Wikimedia user Oxyman distributed under the GNU free documentation license, and as such is released under the same license.

    As a follow-up to my blue 1938 stock, here's a photoshop of what 1973 stock would look like in the current Stagecoach livery.

    Paul
     
  30. Drsatan

    Drsatan Established Member

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    Yuk, IMO SWT 'outer suburban' colours don't suit it, although IMO stagecoach 'mainline' livery (which is predominantly white) would work best...

    If 1973 stock trains will be used on the Isle of Wight, then Stagecoach could keep the 73 stock trains' current livery (or, pay to have the trains stripped back to bare metal, recreating their original unpainted state) and market the Island Line as a heritage line for tube stock.

    That would certainly attract enthusiasts to the Island: not only would it be possible to ride on ex LUL stock in revenue-earning service, but they could enjoy a recreation of, say, any sub-surface line in times gone by!
     
  31. Metadyneman

    Metadyneman Member

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    1973 stock.. "heritage??" blimey now I do feel old. I remember travelling on the very first 1973 stock trains when the 59 stock reigned supreme on the Piccadilly. In fact it was quite weird because there were one or two 1938 stock workings still operating on the Piccadilly line then so it was possible to ride on 3 generations of tube stock on the same line.
     
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