Are 67s still doing Manchester to Holyhead?

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by stretchdj74, 15 Apr 2019.

  1. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

    Messages:
    5,147
    Joined:
    10 Jun 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    Should I infer from what you say that they were qualified in the 57+MkII days?
     
  2. Bevan Price

    Bevan Price Established Member

    Messages:
    4,492
    Joined:
    22 Apr 2010
    The 16:50 Manchester Piccadilly - Llandudno often needs even more than 4 coaches - after Oxford Road, it is not uncommon for there to be 50+ standing passengers even with loco + 4 Mark 3s when I use it.

    As for the Mark 4 set - I think the first set only arrived about a week ago - surely it would take a few months before crew training is complete?? A December start date seemed grossly over-optimistic
     
  3. Tom Maddox

    Tom Maddox Member

    Messages:
    502
    Joined:
    14 Apr 2019
    Location:
    Frodsham
    I think it’s been around longer than a week ago - but not much longer so yeah, 16th December did seem optimistic.
     
  4. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

    Messages:
    2,460
    Joined:
    25 Oct 2012
    I couldn't tell you, it was well before my time. I know there was some degree of training on the couplers before, even going into MKIII days, but now it's more limited. I think they were able to assist with uncoupling in emergencies but I'm not sure how far it went. It's now only done by fitters on the depot, with the traincrew checking it visually doing prep.
     
  5. Merle Haggard

    Merle Haggard Member

    Messages:
    228
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2019
    Location:
    Northampton
    Sorry - to be clear by 'westbound' I meant the morning Holyhead.

    Incidentally the Mk 3 set is still reclining at Crewe this morning, 4 cars plus 12182 on an adjacent road.
     
  6. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

    Messages:
    11,001
    Joined:
    14 Nov 2011
    Location:
    Caerphilly
    Can platform lengths accommodate more than 4 carriages all along the route. There are issues in the opposite direction
     
  7. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

    Messages:
    2,460
    Joined:
    25 Oct 2012
    Indeed - but it's missing both the loco and the DVT, not much use without either of them!

    There are now 2 MKIV sets on site, at the opposite end of the depot beside the Kidsgrove line.
     
  8. Bovverboy

    Bovverboy Established Member

    Messages:
    1,698
    Joined:
    1 Dec 2013
    Can anyone say to what extent loadings on TfW services have been affected by the introduction of the NT Chester - Leeds service?
     
  9. Phil from Mon

    Phil from Mon Member

    Messages:
    321
    Joined:
    28 Nov 2014
    Location:
    Beaumaris, Ynys Môn
    Can’t answer directly, but when I got the Chester - Victoria yesterday it was quite busy from Chester, and if you are travelling from west of Llandudno Jct then you have a much faster journey than previously.

    It was the same coming back, although quiet into Chester there were a good number waiting to board to go east.
     
  10. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

    Messages:
    2,460
    Joined:
    25 Oct 2012
    Given the appalling reliability of the Northern service it's probably too early to tell at the moment.
     
  11. Merle Haggard

    Merle Haggard Member

    Messages:
    228
    Joined:
    20 Oct 2019
    Location:
    Northampton
    Sorry!

    The reason I pointed out that the coaches were at Crewe during the day was a reply to the question raised by the thread title, in the absence of any other recent reports.
     
  12. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

    Messages:
    939
    Joined:
    12 Aug 2016
    Uh oh. 175 in the excursion platform at Longsight and a broken rail on the line to Chester via Northwich means I think it'll be a busy service this morning :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: 9 Dec 2019
  13. Bovverboy

    Bovverboy Established Member

    Messages:
    1,698
    Joined:
    1 Dec 2013
    How does Llandudno Jct come into the equation?
     
  14. Bovverboy

    Bovverboy Established Member

    Messages:
    1,698
    Joined:
    1 Dec 2013
    Has there always been a spare carriage for the Mk3 set? I'd been under the impression that if a carriage was unavailable the set was short-formed at three carriages.
     
  15. berneyarms

    berneyarms Established Member

    Messages:
    1,965
    Joined:
    26 Nov 2013
    The connecting time at Chester is reduced.
     
  16. Phil from Mon

    Phil from Mon Member

    Messages:
    321
    Joined:
    28 Nov 2014
    Location:
    Beaumaris, Ynys Môn
    Lots of people travel to Manchester from west of the junction. Currently needs (mainly) a change either at the junction or at Chester onto the TFW service from Llandudno to Manchester. Changing at Chester to the northern service, if it is running, saves a considerable time.
     
  17. Tom Maddox

    Tom Maddox Member

    Messages:
    502
    Joined:
    14 Apr 2019
    Location:
    Frodsham
    Yes, I think that’s right. I’ve seen the Manchester set out with 3 coaches a few times.
     
  18. Bovverboy

    Bovverboy Established Member

    Messages:
    1,698
    Joined:
    1 Dec 2013
    Interesting, I hadn't realised how few through journeys per day there were between Holyhead and Manchester. I see that you had the presence of mind to say, in respect of the Northern service, 'if it is running'. Even if it's running, I gather that the connection isn't always made.
     
  19. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

    Messages:
    2,460
    Joined:
    25 Oct 2012
    Don't worry,I wasn't having a go at you! I just wanted to make sure people didn't think the stock was likely to be back in service any time soon.
     
  20. craigybagel

    craigybagel Established Member

    Messages:
    2,460
    Joined:
    25 Oct 2012
    Correct - I've no idea why there is a spare at Crewe at the moment but it's not normal. As you say, if there's a problem with one of them normally it just runs in service as a 3 car.
     
  21. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

    Messages:
    5,147
    Joined:
    10 Jun 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    Though come 2022, when the TfW service is moved to start from Bangor instead, that will become less of an issue. Then it'd just be for people west of Bangor (and/or who don't drive east to Bangor already).
     
  22. Phil from Mon

    Phil from Mon Member

    Messages:
    321
    Joined:
    28 Nov 2014
    Location:
    Beaumaris, Ynys Môn
    I know the TFW launch blurb said Bangor, but do we know for certain yet if they will all terminate there, or will some go through to Holyhead?
     
  23. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

    Messages:
    5,147
    Joined:
    10 Jun 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    I've not seen anything specific on that. I can see the sense in that, given that the three loco-hauled services are unlikely to pick up any of the request stops across the island, which mainly leaves the Birmingham services to take up the stops.

    A round trip from the Junction to Bangor and back can be done in the same turnaround time for the current service from Junction to Llandudno and back (plus shuttle). Extending the service from Bangor to Holyhead would need an extra 45 mins (or more if stopping) so you'd need an extra diagram on the service.

    If you only extended some out to Holyhead, then the first one to be extended will leave a hole in the timetable for the next return working from Bangor: you'd need an extra unit to drop in and pick up the missing working.

    There may well be some extended to Holyhead at the start/end of the day, for operational convenience.
     
  24. mmh

    mmh Established Member

    Messages:
    1,881
    Joined:
    13 Aug 2016
    But as it stands would severely reduce Llandudno's service. Even if replaced by a Liverpool service it'd still be a reduction (and removal of a long established through service)
     
  25. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

    Messages:
    5,147
    Joined:
    10 Jun 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    My understanding is that there'd be the same hourly service from Llandudno to Chester, but going to Liverpool rather than Manchester. There will also be ample turnaround time for the hourly shuttle to Llandudno Jn too, as the paths to and from Liverpool indicate trains will pass each other at Chester just like the current Manchester service does.

    I've had a quick dig in the train service requirements for December 2019 and 2022 (when the new timetable is to start), and found that the minimum number of through services Chester-Llandudno is due to increase from 12 to 17. Counting all services between the Junction and Llandudno, the specification increases from 27 to 32.

    The only loss I can find is the fact that there won't be direct trains to Warrington, Earlestown and Manchester from Llandudno and Deganwy (only from Llandudno Jn).
     
  26. mmh

    mmh Established Member

    Messages:
    1,881
    Joined:
    13 Aug 2016
    That's quite a big loss though. As well as losing Manchester as a direct destination it will also break connections northwards along the WCML from Warrington.
     
  27. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

    Messages:
    5,147
    Joined:
    10 Jun 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    I suppose so, but with Bangor's current passenger numbers being twice that of Llandudno's, I suppose there are more people gaining than there are losing out.
     
  28. Leyland155

    Leyland155 Member

    Messages:
    63
    Joined:
    25 Jul 2016
    Evening all. Does anyone know if the loco set has been out at all this week or is the DVT still nursing its wheel flat?
     
  29. Y Ddraig Coch

    Y Ddraig Coch Member

    Messages:
    841
    Joined:
    1 Nov 2013
    I could have checked if you asked two hours ago it passes my house.... I'm sure someone with inside knowledge will be along soon
     
  30. Leyland155

    Leyland155 Member

    Messages:
    63
    Joined:
    25 Jul 2016
    Ah, I should've got round to messaging sooner then! Thanks anyway :smile:
     

Share This Page