ATOC Priv cards

[alex595]

I saw a topic about this but it was closed. My understanding is that the employee and family gets free travel, is this correct? Does it include siblings? Is it for the company you work for or selected companies? Sorry I'm new to all this.

 

[Silv1983]

I saw a topic about this but it was closed. My understanding is that the employee and family gets free travel, is this correct? Does it include siblings? Is it for the company you work for or selected companies? Sorry I'm new to all this.

You, your spouse/partner and dependants get an ATOC Priv Card. It doesn't provide free travel - instead you get 75% off 'Anytime' tickets.
You always get free travel for the company you work for with a staff card.
Most rail employees however agree that it's a bit tit-for-tat making staff pay to use each other's services and if you ask nicely many Train Managers and guards will let you travel for free.

 

[driver9000]

Employee, Spouse or partner and dependant children. Priv card gives 75% discount on Anytime fares.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Is there still a flat fare on dependants?

 

[Urban Gateline]

You, your spouse/partner and dependants get an ATOC Priv Card. It doesn't provide free travel - instead you get 75% off 'Anytime' tickets.
You always get free travel for the company you work for with a staff card.
Most rail employees however agree that it's a bit tit-for-tat making staff pay to use each other's services and if you ask nicely many Train Managers and guards will let you travel for free.

Problem with that is when you want to use FCC services which are all DOO, so you have no option but to buy a PRIV ticket if facilities exist before boarding otherwise their RPI's will probably sting you with a PF or worse prosecute! Of course the same applies to other DOO operations. In a way it's unfair as staff from LOROL/FCC etc may well be waved on for free on other TOC's services whilst not returning the favour!

Also I'm not sure the long distance operators like EC or VT look favourably on other TOC staff asking them, as many of those are long distance Journeys which would get the TOC a considerable amount of revenue!

 

[whoosh]

An ATOC Priv Card is for you (the employee). A partner of the employee is also entitled to one. If you're married or in a civil partnership then your marriage/civil partnership certificate will prove you are together, if you are not married then you need to sign a form saying you are in a long term commited relationship and living together, and swear an oath to a solicitor that it is the truth and get them to countersign the form.
Also any dependants (children/step-children/adopted children) are entitled as well. A copy of their birth certificate would prove they are yours or or partners, or an adoption certificate would prove you or your partner have adopted them.

Your siblings would not be entitled to an ATOC card.
The only other person entitled is a 'housekeeper', but there are strict earnings limits for them to qualify - I very much doubt anybody can take advantage of this concession.


There is more information on the ATOC website. Just google 'ATOC rail staff travel'. You would be TOCNE (Train Operating Company - New Entrant). Anyone joining a TOC after 1996 is classed as this. 'Protected staff' is for people on the railway before 1996 so would not apply to you.

Note the 75% off rail fares applies only to full price, peak time fares. Advance, and off-peak fares are not discounted at all.


It may sound obvious, but ATOC cards are only for TOC employees, not Freight Operating Company (FOC) or Network Rail employees, who get nothing sadly.

 

[reb0118]

Your siblings would not be entitled to an ATOC card.

It may be the case, however, that any sibling who is financially dependent on the employee could also be entitled to discounted travel.

I'm not sure in the above case if they would have to reside at the same address as the employee to qualify.

 

[andyb2706]

It depends when you started working for the railway. If you joined pre-privatisation you are classed as a safeguarded member of staff where you get a set number of days free travel nationwide (any train, anywhere...with a few restrictions but not enough to cause any problems)followed by 75% off an Anytime fare. You also get free/cheap rates on alot of the european railways and discounts at some of the preserved railways too. This applies to the empolyee and partner as well as dependants up to the age of 16 or 18 or is in further education. This applies to both TOC and Network Rail staff.

So if you started on British Rail you get a lot better deal than joining a privatised railway.

 

[34D]

It may sound obvious, but ATOC cards are only for TOC employees, not Freight Operating Company (FOC) or Network Rail employees, who get nothing sadly.

Unless joined pre 1996

 

[Silv1983]

Problem with that is when you want to use FCC services which are all DOO, so you have no option but to buy a PRIV ticket if facilities exist before boarding otherwise their RPI's will probably sting you with a PF or worse prosecute! Of course the same applies to other DOO operations. In a way it's unfair as staff from LOROL/FCC etc may well be waved on for free on other TOC's services whilst not returning the favour!

Also I'm not sure the long distance operators like EC or VT look favourably on other TOC staff asking them, as many of those are long distance Journeys which would get the TOC a considerable amount of revenue!

Yea I appreciate it doesn't work everywhere. Travelling from London to Stockport or Piccadilly on VT can work if you're Northern because a Northern staff card lets you breeze past the RPIs. There's the occasional TPE conductor who'll reprimand Northern train crew for buying priv tickets!

Further to the OP - you might find that a discounted anytime ticket is more expensive than an advanced or off-peak variation - especially with operators like VT: so do your homework.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Yea I appreciate it doesn't work everywhere. Travelling from London to Stockport or Piccadilly on VT can work if you're Northern because a Northern staff card lets you breeze past the RPIs. There's the occasional TPE conductor who'll reprimand Northern train crew for buying priv tickets!

Further to the OP - you might find that a discounted anytime ticket is more expensive than an advanced or off-peak variation - especially with operators like VT: so do your homework.

Exactly! Pretty much all my long distance Journeys are done using Advances! London to Manchester is £77 return using PRIV! But using Advances I can do it for £50.40 return and in First Class too!!

However, some PRIV fares are exceptionally good value, like Fort William to Glasgow at £6.85 single, a 3h 42m Journey! This shames the expensive VT/EC and XC flows with similar Journey times.

 

[Nestor]

You, your spouse/partner and dependants get an ATOC Priv Card. It doesn't provide free travel - instead you get 75% off 'Anytime' tickets.
You always get free travel for the company you work for with a staff card.
Most rail employees however agree that it's a bit tit-for-tat making staff pay to use each other's services and if you ask nicely many Train Managers and guards will let you travel for free.

Problem with that is when you want to use FCC services which are all DOO, so you have no option but to buy a PRIV ticket if facilities exist before boarding otherwise their RPI's will probably sting you with a PF or worse prosecute! Of course the same applies to other DOO operations. In a way it's unfair as staff from LOROL/FCC etc may well be waved on for free on other TOC's services whilst not returning the favour!

Also I'm not sure the long distance operators like EC or VT look favourably on other TOC staff asking them, as many of those are long distance Journeys which would get the TOC a considerable amount of revenue!

Yeah, the East Midlands gate line at STP weren't to happy with me either as as I had boarded from Bedford, the train manager was okay bout it though!

 

[JB25]

I always use my Priv when I use SWTs but have often wondered when in uniform whether I would have to pay a penalty fare for travelling on their trains without a ticket. Not that you often see SWTs rail revenue officers on their metro routes.

 

[Vicpaul]

I always use my Priv when I use SWTs but have often wondered when in uniform whether I would have to pay a penalty fare for travelling on their trains without a ticket. Not that you often see SWTs rail revenue officers on their metro routes.

Tickets should be purchased before travelling however if you were unable to I'd like to think revenue would give you the benefit of the doubt

 

[Silv1983]

Exactly! Pretty much all my long distance Journeys are done using Advances! London to Manchester is £77 return using PRIV! But using Advances I can do it for £50.40 return and in First Class too!!

However, some PRIV fares are exceptionally good value, like Fort William to Glasgow at £6.85 single, a 3h 42m Journey! This shames the expensive VT/EC and XC flows with similar Journey times.

Not sure who your employer is? If it's Northern you can get a TPE to Doncaster from Manchester for little over a £5 then travel free on Grand Central to Kings Cross. Bloomin' bargain.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Not sure who your employer is? If it's Northern you can get a TPE to Doncaster from Manchester for little over a £5 then travel free on Grand Central to Kings Cross. Bloomin' bargain.

I'm from the South! SWT at the moment! So I can use EMT for free the long way round via Sheffield to get to Manchester, sometimes the VT route is much nicer and more comfortable though!

 

[the sniper]

Though I'll probably just be viewed as unappreciative by people who can't get PRIV fares, personally I think PRIV is pretty poor. They're near useless on ex-Intercity routes where First class Advances are usually cheaper and preferable. A PRIV ALR is reasonably good, but when you consider that your safeguarded colleagues get boxes, it ain't so great.

The PRIV system is further embarrassed by the excellent FIP Coupons scheme that we get in Europe, which I view as the real 'privilege' of working on the railway. But how can it be sensible that we can all travel across France, Germany, Switzerland, Norway, ect for 8 days for free, yet if we want to do the same here over 7 days it'd cost you £116. A ticket on which you should still give up your seat if any passengers are standing and carries time restrictions. It's not that bad, but it's just a bit silly...

Luckily most Guards subscribe to the unofficial nod and wink approach to travel facilities and our employers know it, but it shouldn't come down to this.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....If it's Northern you can get a TPE to Doncaster from Manchester for little over a £5 then travel free on Grand Central to Kings Cross. Bloomin' bargain.

Better than that, Northern run services Manchester-Sheffield-Doncaster, Manchester-Leeds-Doncaster, Manchester-Brighouse/Halifax and Manchester-Leeds-York, to connect with Grand Central services, which only take an hour or so longer....

 

[AlterEgo]

However, some PRIV fares are exceptionally good value, like Fort William to Glasgow at £6.85 single, a 3h 42m Journey! This shames the expensive VT/EC and XC flows with similar Journey times.

It's a good job tickets aren't priced on journey times then, or London Midland would be more expensive than Virgin...

Quite how you can compare the two - a 3h42 min journey on a Class 156 with no onboard facilities that covers just 100 miles, and a two-hour, 200 mile journey on a train linking two major cities that has many facilities - is beyond me.

I'm not saying long distance train travel is good value on Priv, but let's be reasonable! Anytime tickets are not designed with the Priv holder in mind.

 

[rebmcr]

Though I'll probably just be viewed as unappreciative by people who can't get PRIV fares, personally I think PRIV is pretty poor.

I can't get PRIV as I'm not a rail employee, however it seems far poorer than my Advances + Railcard!

 

[GNERman]

deleted

 

[455driver]

I can't get PRIV as I'm not a rail employee, however it seems far poorer than my Advances + Railcard!

It is, the PRIV is only of any value if the journey is a short one where no discounted fares are available or if its a longer distance one on the spur of the moment then advances (even 1st class sometimes) are normally cheaper than the equivalent PRIV ticket.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

It is, the PRIV is only of any value if the journey is a short one where no discounted fares are available or if its a longer distance one on the spur of the moment then advances (even 1st class sometimes) are normally cheaper than the equivalent PRIV ticket.

There are examples of standard class Priv tickets being more expensive than non-railcard 'walk-on' fares (Stoke-on-Trent to London Terminals return for example) and many more that have little or no price difference (Manchester to London Terminals return for example).

There are journeys where it is not possible to buy a standard class Priv return (Manchester to Rhyl for example).

 

[Urban Gateline]

It's a good job tickets aren't priced on journey times then, or London Midland would be more expensive than Virgin...

Quite how you can compare the two - a 3h42 min journey on a Class 156 with no onboard facilities that covers just 100 miles, and a two-hour, 200 mile journey on a train linking two major cities that has many facilities - is beyond me.

I'm not saying long distance train travel is good value on Priv, but let's be reasonable! Anytime tickets are not designed with the Priv holder in mind.

I agree that intercity and local journeys cannot be compared like for like, but the point about onboard facilities is poor, the only difference VT and EC have is a trolley service/shop and even then some Scotrail services have that. 156's have loos, not sure what more you need in terms of facilities!

Even when you factor distance into it, the VT Journey is still £38.50 SOS using PRIV, more than triple the price per mile than the Scotrail Journey.

Also it's not like either Glasgow or Fort William are small towns, there is stll plenty of demand to travel between the two, of course not as much as London to Manchester though!

 

[AlterEgo]

I agree that intercity and local journeys cannot be compared like for like, but the point about onboard facilities is poor, the only difference VT and EC have is a trolley service/shop and even then some Scotrail services have that. 156's have loos, not sure what more you need in terms of facilities!

EC and Virgin both have WiFi, a shop and/or trolley, more comfortable seats, plug sockets, seat reservations, a quiet zone... need I go on?

Also it's not like either Glasgow or Fort William are small towns

Fort William is a very small town, albeit with a middling tourist industry.

 

[Silv1983]

Better than that, Northern run services Manchester-Sheffield-Doncaster, Manchester-Leeds-Doncaster, Manchester-Brighouse/Halifax and Manchester-Leeds-York, to connect with Grand Central services, which only take an hour or so longer....

An hour of my time is well worth the £5

 

[hairyhandedfool]

EC and Virgin both have WiFi,...

That most passengers have to pay to use.

....a shop and/or trolley....

That charges more for items than the shops at the station, nevermind the town/city centre you just left.

.... more comfortable seats,...

Debatable, I'd rather be on a Scotrail 156.

....plug sockets,...

If you are on a Voyager or at a table (for Virgin, haven't been on EC for a while).

....seat reservations,...

If there are any left and you can commit to a particular service.

....a quiet zone....

Not that I ever want to use one (devices that can play music are frowned upon or not allowed)

....need I go on?.....

Maybe.

An hour of my time is well worth the £5

I'd rather be on the 142, but each to their own I suppose.

 

[Silv1983]

A 142 rather than a 185?! hmmmmm....

It's too much messing about getting to Doncaster or Halifax sticking to Northern, bearing in mind my local station is Heaton Chapel.

 

[AlterEgo]

That most passengers have to pay to use.



That charges more for items than the shops at the station, nevermind the town/city centre you just left.



Debatable, I'd rather be on a Scotrail 156.



If you are on a Voyager or at a table (for Virgin, haven't been on EC for a while).



If there are any left and you can commit to a particular service.



Not that I ever want to use one (devices that can play music are frowned upon or not allowed)



Maybe.



I'd rather be on the 142, but each to their own I suppose.

My point isn't that all these are great value and/or justify the fare - they're not.

I was illustrating the level of investment in the service and the perception among the normal travelling public, demonstrating that the poster was comparing apples and oranges.

I'd rather wind my way up the Highlands on a 156 too, than go down the WCML or ECML too, but there you go. Not everyone is there for the slow life and the window view.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

A 142 rather than a 185?! hmmmmm....

It's too much messing about getting to Doncaster or Halifax sticking to Northern, bearing in mind my local station is Heaton Chapel.

Yes really (though I confess I am a bit tight financially speaking). Being on the other side of Manchester does give me slightly different options for travel I guess.