• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Brexit matters

Typhoon

Established Member
Joined
2 Nov 2017
Messages
3,486
Location
Kent
I went back 61 pages to page 1 started on 10 Nov 2020 and this is the second Brexit thread. So we had already left the EU.

This is like the old Japanese soldier fighting on thinking the war is still going on. I'll stick to the railway threads as this is a waste of effort.
I would not say that was correct. Almost all people (including posters on this thread) know that we have left the EU and the transition period has ended, and accept that. The debate is about the impact of Brexit on this and (to a lesser extent) other countries after we have left. As @najaB has inferred this will take some time to play out. To follow up your example, it is not what effect 'winning' or 'losing' World War II had on a single soldier but on Japan as a country (as well as Germany, UK, USSR, other countries). This is quite a large scale example but there is also the effect on the US of their civil war; on much of Europe of the fall of the Berlin Wall; on southern Africa of the end of apartheid; the 2004 tsunami on south east Asia; the financial crisis of 2007/8 virtually worldwide; and others going back in history. All these had a long term impact or, in some cases, are still having an impact. There is no reason to believe that Brexit won't have an impact on the UK and other countries, if it didn't there would be no point in having done it, and that the after effects will be felt for some time, some will have been anticipated, some won't. As an example of the latter, the election of Joe Biden (less anti-EU than Donald Trump); when we voted, Trump was a candidate and Biden had backed Hillary Clinton.
Short of the intervention of the Mods, this thread potentially has a lot of material still to cover and has the potential to be a Forum James Anderson.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

alex397

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2017
Messages
1,546
Location
UK
From BBC News: Brexit worse than feared, says JD Sports boss

The boss of one of Britain's big retailers says Brexit has turned out to be "considerably worse" than he feared.
Peter Cowgill, chairman of JD Sports, said the red tape and delays in shipping goods to mainland Europe meant "double-digit millions" in extra costs.
He told the BBC JD Sports may open an EU-based distribution centre to ease the problems, which would mean creating jobs overseas and not in the UK.
The BBC has asked the government for a comment.
Mr Cowgill's criticism echoes that from exporters and importers across the UK.
New UK-EU trade rules came into operation on 1 January. But since then, there has been growing concern from businesses as diverse as seafood exporters from Scotland and food suppliers shipping products to Northern Ireland.
Mr Cowgill told the BBC's World at One that there is no true free trade with the EU, because goods that JD Sports imports from East Asia incur tariffs when they go to its stores across Europe.
He said: "I actually think it was not properly thought out. All the spin that was put on it about being free trade and free movement has not been the reality.
"The new system and red tape just slows down efficiency. The freedom of movement and obstacles are quite difficult at the moment. I don't see that regulatory paperwork easing much in the short term," Mr Cowgill said.


'Bizarre'​



Opening a big warehouse distribution centre in mainland Europe "would make a lot of economic sense," he said. He estimated such a facility would employ about 1,000 people.
While JD Sports' existing warehouse in Rochdale would not close, "it would mean the transfer of a number of jobs into Europe," Mr Cowgill said.
He also warned that the UK needed a complete overhaul of business rates and rents if the High Street was to survive. "It is basic economics," he said. "Bricks and mortar retailing is becoming uneconomic."
Mr Cowgill had particular criticism for the government's decision-making on forcing non-essential shops to close, while allowing essential shops to stay open.
In reality, that meant supermarkets could sell clothes, while firms such as JD Sports had to shut. "Some essential retailers have been making hay out of selling clothes, whilst clothing retailers have been closed. It is bizarre," he said.


'Erroneous'​



Last weekend, the Road Haulage Association (RHA) said exports to the EU had fallen as much as 68% since 1 January due to Brexit border hold-ups.
But the government has said freight movements are now close to normal levels, despite the Covid-19 pandemic.
On Monday, Cabinet Office Minister Michael Gove told a committee of MPs that the RHA's claims were "erroneous" and "based on a partial survey".
He added that "truer figures" were published on the Cabinet Office website, adding that the port of Dover saw 90% of normal levels of traffic on Monday.
Mr Gove acknowledged that traders faced issues with exports and imports to and from the EU, but said it was "important to put it in context".
Key sentences from that include : Opening a big warehouse distribution centre in mainland Europe "would make a lot of economic sense," he said. He estimated such a facility would employ about 1,000 people.
While JD Sports' existing warehouse in Rochdale would not close, "it would mean the transfer of a number of jobs into Europe," Mr Cowgill said.


Will this be brushed off as scaremongering?
 
Last edited:

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,689
Location
Scotland
Key sentences from that include : Opening a big warehouse distribution centre in mainland Europe "would make a lot of economic sense," he said. He estimated such a facility would employ about 1,000 people.
While JD Sports' existing warehouse in Rochdale would not close, "it would mean the transfer of a number of jobs into Europe," Mr Cowgill said.
Is anyone else tired of all the winning?
 
Last edited:

GusB

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
6,543
Location
Elginshire

British supermarkets that have stores in Europe are facing supply problems because of post-Brexit rules on exports to the EU. It's affecting fresh produce at 20 Marks and Spencer stores in France, Morrison's in Gibraltar, and a chain of UK supermarkets in Belgium is on the verge of closure with no deliveries since December.
The supermarket featured in this report specialised in providing British products to British people living abroad, and it was alarming to see all the empty shelves. They had two lorry-loads of goods stuck in the queue because every single product line required its own lot of paperwork. Of course there are ways around this:

  • British people buy local products, which no doubt they're having do or they don't get the goods they need
  • Companies open distribution centres on the continent in order to reduce the burden of paperwork per lorry-load
  • Manufacturers decide to transfer their production (and related jobs) away from the UK
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,689
Location
Scotland
  • British people buy local products, which no doubt they're having do or they don't get the goods they need
  • Companies open distribution centres on the continent in order to reduce the burden of paperwork per lorry-load
  • Manufacturers decide to transfer their production (and related jobs) away from the UK
Just saw a similar story on Sky News, and there's a fourth option - they buy from Irish suppliers (almost the same) and bypass the land bridge entirely by shipping through Rosslare.

More winning.
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,689
Location
Scotland
Is that the jobs in Distribution centres largely taken up by (ex) FOM Eastern Europeans?
Careful, your xenophobia's showing...

In any case, even where jobs are being done by people who weren't born here, they are still paying tax to HM Treasury, paying rent to UK landlords and spending money in UK supermarkets.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
Now I read some fish are being renamed to make them more appealing to Brits as 98% of exports are impacted. That's a lot of fish we'll need to consume to make up the shortfall.

Source:

BBC News - Brexit: 'Under-loved' fish renamed for British tastes
 
Last edited:

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,689
Location
Scotland
Now I read some fish are being renamed to make them more appealing to Brits as 98% of exports are impacted. That's a lot of fish we'll need to consume to make up the shortfall.
Because yeah, that's the reason Brits don't like fish - they have odd names.

I suppose we can have the fish with freedom fries.
 

dgl

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2014
Messages
2,390
Because yeah, that's the reason Brits don't like fish - they have odd names.

I suppose we can have the fish with freedom fries.
It's the Rover 100 of fish :lol:

If the grass was supposed to be greener on the other side it looks like brexiteers had green tinted glasses, the only grass I'm seeing is brown.
 

SHD

Member
Joined
18 Jul 2012
Messages
456
It's the Rover 100 of fish :lol:

If the grass was supposed to be greener on the other side it looks like brexiteers had green tinted glasses, the only grass I'm seeing is brown.

And Waitrose will sell it as the Wolseley One-Hundred of fish!

Seriously though, this "under-loved" fish and seafood is absolutely delicious. I do not know what it would take to convince British eaters that there are many ways to enjoy fish apart from covering it in batter and deep-frying it, and that (British-caught) lobster or spider crab is absolutely fantastic, but something needs to be done.

Maybe a TV ad campaign featuring French chefs and seafood lovers would help :lol:
 

alex397

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2017
Messages
1,546
Location
UK
This really is depressing. I hope it won't be long until we have a closer relationship with the EU. I can't see us rejoining in my lifetime (and I don't think we necessarily have to) but surely we still need a close and harmonious relationship with them to function well? Of course in the minds of some, we should cut ties completely, but that's not how the world works. As the Fun Boy Three would say, the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
Jacob Rees-Mogg said it could be 50 years before we see the true benefits, so only 49 years 10 months (ish) to go.

Put a reminder in your calendar!
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
Jacob Rees-Mogg said it could be 50 years before we see the true benefits, so only 49 years 10 months (ish) to go.

Put a reminder in your calendar!
Something to look forward to when I'm 96.

This really is depressing. I hope it won't be long until we have a closer relationship with the EU. I can't see us rejoining in my lifetime (and I don't think we necessarily have to) but surely we still need a close and harmonious relationship with them to function well? Of course in the minds of some, we should cut ties completely, but that's not how the world works. As the Fun Boy Three would say, the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
I think we need to seriously reconsider CU/SM membership again at the very least.

The Brexiteers were warned repeatedly.
 
Last edited:

daodao

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2016
Messages
2,904
Location
Dunham/Bowdon
Something to look forward to when I'm 96.


I think we need to seriously reconsider CU/SM membership again at the very least.

The Brexiteers were warned repeatedly.
Given the huge benefits to the EU of the departure of Perfidious Albion, I don't think they would want England back in the fold, but I suspect that they would welcome back the 6 counties as part of a united Eire, an independent Scotland and even possibly Cymru. It is in the interests of the EU to enforce every regulation to the nth degree to harm the UK, and not only economically. The UK is not just a 3rd country, it is one that has deliberately left their club.
 

Senex

Established Member
Joined
1 Apr 2014
Messages
2,752
Location
York
Given the huge benefits to the EU of the departure of Perfidious Albion, I don't think they would want England back in the fold, but I suspect that they would welcome back the 6 counties as part of a united Eire, an independent Scotland and even possibly Cymru. It is in the interests of the EU to enforce every regulation to the nth degree to harm the UK, and not only economically. The UK is not just a 3rd country, it is one that has deliberately left their club.
I think that's right, though I wonder if Wales would be so welcome. After all, it was the Welsh along with the English who voted for Brexit. But I'm sure things would be made as easy as possible for both Scotland and the Six Counties as part of a 32-county Republic of Ireland. As for England, I fear that any application to re-join could be quite a difficult negotiation, with absolutely no exemptions from things like Schengen and the Euro and certainly no financial provileges — and rightly so after this state's behaviour over the last five years!
 

dosxuk

Established Member
Joined
2 Jan 2011
Messages
1,742
Given the huge benefits to the EU of the departure of Perfidious Albion, I don't think they would want England back in the fold, but I suspect that they would welcome back the 6 counties as part of a united Eire, an independent Scotland and even possibly Cymru. It is in the interests of the EU to enforce every regulation to the nth degree to harm the UK, and not only economically. The UK is not just a 3rd country, it is one that has deliberately left their club.
But the German car manufacturers and French wine sellers!
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,793
Location
Nottingham
The full set of restrictions on British imports haven't been imposed yet, possibly because of concern over food supplies. That's a "treat" for a few months time.
 

RT4038

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Messages
4,179
I think we need to seriously reconsider CU/SM membership again at the very least.

The Brexiteers were warned repeatedly.
Business, the economy and our lifestyle will adapt. Our relationship with the EU will also evolve, but it has permanently changed. It will never be the same again, and there will always (for multiple generations at least) be comparisons between our time as EU members to post-Brexit.

The Brexiteers were warned repeatedly, but this is about breaking away from the gang. Bound to be painful downsides, but the UK has been through worse.

But the German car manufacturers and French wine sellers!
Will also suffer, but that will be a sacrifice to keep the other gang members on side.
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,689
Location
Scotland
Business, the economy and our lifestyle will adapt.
I don't think anyone doubts that. The problem is that many otherwise viable businesses will fold, our economy will be smaller and our lifestyle less rich. And for what?
 

RT4038

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Messages
4,179
I don't think anyone doubts that. The problem is that many otherwise viable businesses will fold, our economy will be smaller and our lifestyle less rich. And for what?
And other, viable, businesses will start up.

The time for arguing whether Brexit is a good or bad idea, or for what purpose, has long since gone. (Bit like the interminable arguments over the Beeching Plan elsewhere on this forum). It has happened and now we must make the best of it.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
Business, the economy and our lifestyle will adapt. Our relationship with the EU will also evolve, but it has permanently changed. It will never be the same again, and there will always (for multiple generations at least) be comparisons between our time as EU members to post-Brexit.

The Brexiteers were warned repeatedly, but this is about breaking away from the gang. Bound to be painful downsides, but the UK has been through worse.


Will also suffer, but that will be a sacrifice to keep the other gang members on side.

Why will they suffer? When you have products people want, people will still buy them but simply have to pay more and jump through more hoops. Do you think people will stop buying BMW cars or drink French wine?

This was what Trump told his userbase; that tariffs on Chinese goods made China pay more. No, Americans paid more to import the Chinese goods and services, which they still do.

We won't be making cars here anytime soon (as in proper British cars, using parts made here and fully built here from scratch - rather than importing parts and chucking them together) and our wine industry is pretty small. Ironically, at least America is more capable of manufacturing some of the things they use China for.

This is what I didn't get with Brexit. The 'they need us more than we need them' line was based on us buying more from them - but that gives THEM the upper hand unless we really believed we could make everything here, or get a far better deal getting those products from elsewhere (and without having to agree to their trading conditions and regulations).

On the other hand, the EU can quite easily source things from somewhere else. Life goes on in the EU while we are suffering here.
 

RT4038

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Messages
4,179
The messaging really has changed over the years...
This would only have relevance if I were David Davis, or identified with him, neither of which is true.

I thought it pretty obvious at the time of the referendum that the act of Brexit was going to be fairly traumatic and unpleasant, no matter what the long term prospects might be.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
The time for arguing whether Brexit is a good or bad idea, or for what purpose, has long since gone. (Bit like the interminable arguments over the Beeching Plan elsewhere on this forum). It has happened and now we must make the best of it.

Brexit has happened, but that doesn't mean that's now it forever. Does a Government ever finish passing new laws and pack up saying 'phew, all done - now carry on!'? Getting Brexit done was just a soundbite; it will never truly be done any more than the EU stayed the same throughout its existence to date.

The UK will have to continue to work on its trade agreements, including with the EU, for the best interests of the UK and its citizens - and adapt to situations like this. We're sure as hell going to have similar issues doing deals with other big nations (like the USA) who will walk all over us if we're not careful. Clearly we need them more than they need us.

If huge numbers of jobs are lost and companies go to the wall because they've lost 90% of their customers, it simply isn't okay to consider it an acceptable loss because in the future some new companies will set up to take advantage of the new trading conditions. In any case, a lot of those are going to be smaller UK shells/hubs with the bulk of employees being based in Europe.

For one, our Government was issuing guidance on these complicated procedures after Jan 1st, yet telling them all last year and beyond to be prepared. They kept pleading for guidance for the last year, but were ignored and told not to worry.

This is a party that is for business!!
 

Spamcan81

Member
Joined
12 Sep 2011
Messages
1,071
Location
Bedfordshire
Brexit has happened, but that doesn't mean that's now it forever. Does a Government ever finish passing new laws and pack up saying 'phew, all done - now carry on!'? Getting Brexit done was just a soundbite; it will never truly be done any more than the EU stayed the same throughout its existence to date.
<snip>

For one, our Government was issuing guidance on these complicated procedures after Jan 1st, yet telling them all last year and beyond to be prepared. They kept pleading for guidance for the last year, but were ignored and told not to worry.

This is a party that is for business!!
Not if the Johnson is to be believed with his "f**k business" comment. His hedge fund and disaster capitalist mates are no doubt f rubbing their hands at the moment though.
 

Top